Gunshop staff attitude: is this savvy?

[hemiram]

I was looking at a used Dan Wesson Pistol Pac a couple of months ago, and the guy selling it got all bent out of shape on me when I dry fired it once. "He practically yells at me, "You aren't supposed to do EVER do that without a snap cap!!". I look at him like he's nuts. He says, "Didn't anyone tell you that?". I just picked up the manual, opened it up to the page where it says dry firing is fine, and asked him, "Didn't you ever read the manual?" A friend was seriously thinking about buying it, but they couldn't negotiate the price. It was in decent shape, but was missing one of the barrel nuts, and the 2+1/2" barrel.

 

[ssr]

These things are meant to be fired, and that means dry fired too. Dry firing is also a part of training with them. Dry firing a centerfire handgun will not hurt it, whether it is a $500 gun or a $2000 gun. No problem dry firing a $2000 gun either (unless it's an engraved or collector piece). I have lots of expensive handguns and dry fire them all the time and dry fired them before buying them too. Working the action in a normal way is not going to hurt them. Wear patterns on guns are normal, unless it is being made a safe queen, which is pointless to me anyway.

 

[sacp81170a]

It's more than just a "wear and tear on the gun" issue, guys, it's a safety issue. The reason I ask is so that the gun store clerk has notice that I'm about to put "my booger hook on the bang switch." I can imagine where someone might go "ballistic" if they had strangers coming in the store all day, picking up weapons at random, and dry firing them unnanounced. Imagine yourself as a clerk if you were to turn away for a second to answer the phone and the next thing you hear is a slide being racked. You turn to find the guy who just walked in the door with his finger on the trigger about to pull it. Are you certain he didn't just put a round in the chamber while you weren't looking? Caution dictates that you should make sure.

Think about how your local hardware store would feel if everyone who wanted to look at a circular saw decided they should plug it in and pull the trigger "to see if it works". Can you see any safety issues? Common courtesy dictates that you ask before putting your finger on the trigger of a gun that's not yours. Yeah, I'd get upset and say something, but I'd know why instead of just having a vague intimation about something being "not right".

 

[JohnBT]

"Sorry, I didn't realize some people were paranoid about silly things like this."

You asked and the answer is "It's customary to ask before dry firing." At least it is at 90% of the shops I've been in over 50 years.

John

 

[kellyj00]

I actually asked at 22 year old fella behing the counter at Gander mountain if I could dry fire the Ruger gp100 I was holding, he said

"no, nobody dry fires any of our guns. It will break them before someone can even shoot them!"
I then informed him of the difference, calmly and politely, between how rimfire firing pins and centerfire firing pins work. "The steel on steel contact is what you're talking about, and it is most certainly true."

"That's not what I've heard. It's my policy never to let anyone fire our guns."

I politely handed the gun back to him and informed him that the price of $550 on a blued gp100 was as inaccurate as the information they have about dry firing.

 

[cmidkiff]

First... I don't need to feel the trigger on a firearm unless I'm seriously thinking of purchasing the gun, or one like it. From the original post, once I had identified the pistol, and decided it wasn't worth the money, I would have handed it back. No need to dry fire, I know what a typical 1911 trigger feels like, and I'm not interested in this particular one anyway.

Second... you gotta ask.

 

[sojournerhome]

I also ask to dry fire a gun I am looking over. The answer has always been, sure...

 

[AndyC]

I always use my thumb, weak hand cupped over the top of the pistol and thumb pointed towards the back, almost touching the hammer before pulling it.

And I always ask as a matter of courtesy - what I believe about dry-firing is irrelevant. The firearm is his property and therefore it's his world-view that matters; I would hope that I'm not arrogant enough to try and impose my opinion onto his property.

 

[Bob R]

I did ask: I said, "mind if I take a look at that 1911". He said sure, and he handed it to me. Why would it be any different to ask whether or not I could dry fire?

Well, do you mind if I look at your wife/girlfriend? If it goes further it should be ok, after all I did ask to "look" at her.

Something along the same lines with guns. I always ask about dry firing before I do it. If it is a factory gun I will assume it has a crappy trigger. I will cock it and then lower the hammer gently with my thumb if I want to make sure all the connecting parts are working. If it is a high end gun, I won't even ask, I know the answer will be no 99% of the time. I also don't let the slide fly closed on an empty chamber (if it is a semi-auto). I just consider it respect of another persons property. If you want to let the slide fly home after it is yours, go for it. Same with dry firing, once it is yours you can dry fire it all you want. When I get a new gun home, the first thing I do is clean it and then dry fire it a thousand times or so to smooth it up.

Some of the shops I visit have prominent signs that advise No Dry Firing, some don't, but I still ask.

If they say no, I understand and don't do it.

bob

 

[obxned]

What Yomama said is exactly right.

 

[Bwana John]

I would never dry-fire someone elses gun with out first asking permission, and using my off thumb to cushion the hammerfall.

When its mine I will dry-fire to no end.

Common courtesy.

And dont let the slide fall without a round being fed, and dont spin the cylinder and snap it shut with a flick of you wrist either.

It is even ruder to dry-fire it AFTER deciding that you are not intrested in buying!

 

[texas bulldog]

as others have said, i always ask permission before i dry fire. just raised to ask permission with things that aren't mine, i guess. so far, no one has denied permission, although i also haven't had occasion to ask on a rimfire yet. in that situation, it would be a red flag to me if they allowed it without offering a snapcap or expended cartridge. more likely, though, i'd just decide which .22 i really wanted, and purchase it new without dry-firing.

another thing i've been thinking about trying...
when shopping for guns in calibers i already own, i've been considering bringing along snapcaps of my own and asking permission to use them. i'm not sure how this would be taken by gunshop employees. any thoughts on this?

 

[GRB]

Caimlas,

I don't see anything wrong with what the gun store guy said, especially in light of the fact that you did not ask if you could dry fire it, nor did you ask which direction in the store would be considered as a safe direction in which to point the gun. The gun store clerk probably thought you had done it pretty safely, except for the fact that you dry fired it pointing it in a questionable direction, otherwise my guess is he would have really chewed you out instead of maybe just being a little gruff.

All the best,
GB

 

[Caimlas]

Thanks Glenn... While that's possible, the wall I pointed it at was an outside wall on a cinderblock building. The wall was right by the store's parking lot, and there is a 1/4" or so sheet of steel on the outside wall.

As for those who say, "ask", despite your flawed analogies to women and power tools, that argument doesn't hold up in my mind. It is a common practice, as near as I can tell, to dry fire guns in a gun shop. I see guys doing it all the time on the new and used rifle racks at various shops as well as pistols when they're handed them. If it was not acceptable to do so there would either a) be signs saying so and/or b) be a way to prevent a customer from picking up the firearm without permission (or at least to discourage it, such as the original box the gun came in from the manufacturer). I've seen neither.

(Looking back, I do recall seeing one such sign in a NY gun shop - it said "do not handle without permission" and the shotguns were all $5k+ or so.) It is a show room for cryin' out loud.

And I didn't dry fire the gun after I'd decided to not buy it. I may still buy a Springfield GI. I just won't be doing so for that price. Would it not be more polite to make the assumption that the pistol had a tuned trigger (thus the price) instead of him putting it about $100 above MSRP and that he was a bit of a con artist?

 

[Justin]

As for those who say, "ask", despite your flawed analogies to women and power tools, that argument doesn't hold up in my mind. It is a common practice, as near as I can tell, to dry fire guns in a gun shop.

So, just how many people will tell you that it's a common practice to ask before dry-firing someone else's weapon before you'll accept that it is, indeed, both good manners and a common practice?

 

[Caimlas]

Justin,

Maybe if I were to see a single person ask a gunshop employee if he could dry fire a weapon before picking it up off the rack and doing so, or if I'd been chastised in the past over it for anything except the one time I dry fired a .22 ("don't dry fire .22s, it's bad for the pins" - no mention of centerfires). Then I'd start to entertain the possibility that it was common practice.

As for the good mannered part, I can accept that it's good manners to ask before doing something. However, given what I've seen of the behavior of both gun shop owners and gun shop patrons, I'm not going to assume it's rude to dry fire without first asking unless there's a sign saying otherwise, particularly with used guns.

Again, this guy didn't say "ask before dry firing" he said "don't dry fire in gun shops". Big difference, and the whole point.

Anyway, the broader question (or statement) I was trying to ask/make was along the lines of, "No wonder people don't like to go into gun shops. The majority of those in there are ignorant, pretentious people and will bark at and/or chastise a paying customer* harshly for a perceived fault." Kind of a, "hey, if you own a gun shop, don't do this - it will drive off customers" warning.

*Ive bought a number of things from this specific individual in the past.

 

[larry_minn]

Let it go... A offhand comment is getting you this worked up? Next time ASK.
OK I was at a workshop and doing my best but knew I was not "getting it exactly right" The head honcho made a comment about "making up your own methods" and I got ticked. IF I would focas on that/walk out in huff/etc nothing good would come of it.
Instead consider what he is saying (ok poorly) and work on basics and improve. I realize this because I almost did walk out. I almost let myself waste time because I was going to take great offense at a off handed comment.
Using what you see others do in gun shops is as bad as GF/wife comparison. Most people do NOT handle guns correctly or even safely.

 

[ProficientRifleman]

too easy

Just ask the gentleman behind the counter, first.

 

[CWL]

If it's not yours, it is just common courtesy to ask before you do anything with someone else's firearm.

If it's yours, do what you want with it.

 

[mustanger98]

Sales people who tell you not to dry fire the guns... they're basically used car salesmen. I've dealt with that kind plenty of times. They're usually too damn snooty and condescending too. I got to where I ask about dry firing. If they give me some jazz about it being bad for the gun, I take my business elsewhere. This one shot locally here... I did business with then for 15 years and they took that attitude with me about four years ago. I don't do business with them and I won't recommend 'em either. The sad part is we could've been friends. Now, there's two shops I do business with on friendly terms... both of 'em don't mind if I dry fire.

 

[JohnKSa]

It is a common practice, as near as I can tell, to dry fire guns in a gun shop.

It is also common courtesy to ask first.

I did ask: I said, "mind if I take a look at that 1911".

Asking to "look" at a gun is not the same as asking to dryfire it.

If you asked to "take a look" at one of my guns and dryfired it without asking first I would be unimpressed. Not because you damaged the gun (although I do own a few guns that can be damaged by dryfiring) but because it's impolite to assume that my permission to allow you to "take a look" automatically allows you do to anything with the gun that you consider "common practice".

I'm not going to assume it's rude to dry fire without first asking unless there's a sign saying otherwise, particularly with used guns.

The key is that the guns are THEIR used guns. You act as if you have the right to dryfire someone else's guns just because the guns are used. Think about what you're saying.

At any rate, you don't need to assume. It is rude to dry fire without asking first. Regardless of whether the guns are used. Regardless of whether there's a sign or not. Regardless of your personal feelings on the subject.

The gun belongs to someone else. They may not want you to dryfire (we ALL know that some people don't like it). If you just go ahead and do what you want because it's "common practice", that is rude.

You see, rudeness is not defined by how YOU feel about your actions but by how your actions affect OTHERS.

 

[AlaskaErik]

A lot of people arent too keen on buying a brand new gun that has been dry fired by thirty different people before they even get to see it.

That's why I never buy a display model. I always ask for a NIB that's never been handled.

 

[pdowg881]

I always ask first.

 

[rdaines]

I'll join the responses here and also say that I ask if I can dry fire. Not that I think it will damage the majority of firearms out there but that it is not my gun (yet). Same thing happens at the range too.

 

[CajunBass]

It is a common practice, as near as I can tell, to dry fire guns in a gun shop.

Well yea, it is, but most people have the good manners to ask first. Now, stop me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you came here to ask. Just because you're not hearing what you wanted to hear, doesn't mean everyone else is wrong.

I've never been told "No, don't dry fire," but I always ask.