Gunshot at a Gun Show

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Why don't they just pass a law requiring people to check the chamber before pulling the trigger?
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They need to cover "How laws are written" in a mandatory high school civics class, regardless of the opinion of Otto von Bismarck (that watching laws being made is like watching sausages being made, it spoils one's appetite.)

Any such law would run to 2,800 pages that no one would be allowed to read until after it was passed, it would felonize with criminal penalties far more than failure to check the chamber before pulling the trigger, and the statutory definition of "finger thing that hangs down" would be so bollixed up, the law would not even cover what it set out to cover in the first place.
 
Because you can't legislate stupidity
Or make illegal
As, in many cases it already is
(reckless endangerment, Assault with a deadly weapon)
 
Oh you mean a law that would make it a felony to place a finger inside the trigger guard of a weapon, or on the trigger if the weapon lack a guard, but the next line down protect your right to discharge a firearm (just not with a finger...)
 
i suspect the number of not-trustworthy rather simple people who own guns is multiple times higher than that of antis crazy enough to plant bullets in gunshow guns ......

Checking every firearm on entry would be the only solution to avoid this.
 
Sort of off topic but I just want to say how dangerous a panic in a crowd can be. Anytime you are in a crowd you are in danger of being trampled or crushed. Read about some of notable incidents in the past decade here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_crush#21st_century

You can also see an example of a Human Crush here (warning: graphic footage and vulgar language):

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=25b_1277865838

If you have a real strong stomach you can watch what happens when you combine a panicked crowd with a fire. This is the infamous Station Nightclub fire in RI (warning: extremely disturbing video):

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fc3_1280004789

(If you are wondering how the cameraman got such detailed footage and how he was so aware of the danger it is because he was actually a reporter there doing a report on nightclub safety after a much less extreme incident at another club, something I find to be an extraordinary coincidence)
 
CoreyI35 said:
So what are you saying, that some people are too stupid to own guns?
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No, what I'm saying is that in the attempt to make all things inherently safe, we're creating a society of people who live in a fog and take their safety for granted.

Look at cars. People feel so darn safe in their cars now-a-days that they eat with one hand while talking on the phone with the other. And let's not forget how all-wheel drive, traction control, and ABS just makes people think they can do 80 mph in snow.

My point is that zip-tying the actions may have the desired effect, but it just thickens the fog that the lemmings are already living in.
 
I was at a show in Tulsa, OK back in 2002-2003, something like that, where a shot rang out. There was no panic or rush for the doors, though... people kind of cautiously looked in the direction of the shot, realized nobody was going on a rampage or anything, and went on about their business. Like with the situation in the OP, it took people a few seconds to realize that it was actually a gunshot. Everybody paused and listened when it went off, looked to the people next to them, and said "was that a gunshot?" "yeah, I think it was."

It turns out some idiot stuck a loaded pistol in his holster with his finger on the trigger. The bullet hit the floor and went straight sideways into the foot of a guy standing next to him, IIRC.
 
Last year at the Albany, NY January gun show. At 10 am a loud bang silenced the crowded noisy show. You could hear a pin drop. State police security had weapons drawn and found a shaken dealer with a blown pneumatic tire on a hand truck. The tire had been inflated at a gas station cold, in PA prior to the dealer driving to Albany. The hand truck brought inside warmed up and the tire exploded. Thankfully it was not an incident such as Bloomington. Still makes you check your shorts.
Several years back in a show in Western NY, a round was discovered in a magazine of a 9mm semi auto pistol. When it was discovered shortly after another was discovered at another dealer. An announcement was made over the PA for all dealers to check all their firearms on display. 3 more 9mm SA's were found loaded with a single round. The individual was caught. I do not know the outcome of any prosecution but since then zip ties are used at shows in NY.
 
2WheelsGood said:
No, what I'm saying is that in the attempt to make all things inherently safe, we're creating a society of people who live in a fog and take their safety for granted.

Look at cars. People feel so darn safe in their cars now-a-days that they eat with one hand while talking on the phone with the other. And let's not forget how all-wheel drive, traction control, and ABS just makes people think they can do 80 mph in snow.

My point is that zip-tying the actions may have the desired effect, but it just thickens the fog that the lemmings are already living in.
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I agree with your point. I've thought about this a lot the past couple of days. I suspect that the very restrictive gun laws in Illinois may well contribute to this false sense of security thing, especially with new gun owners. Newer, less experienced gun owners are not accustomed to being around loaded guns so they are less vigilant thanks to the nanny state and the lack of right to carry laws.

I'm not saying that happened in this case but I can see where it could happen...
 
WOW !! I have been to alot of show's over the years here in MN and I thought it was a nation-wide "rule" that ALL actions have a zip-tie thru them until the dealer removes it for "inspection" .. Wouldnt that be the simplest "rule" to prevent accidents ? Our shows here typically seperate guns from ammo,, if a dealer is selling both they must have 2-seperate tables for both products,even if they only have 10-box's of ammo they must pay-for an additional "table fee" to display them seperate,,
 
Ran for the door?
Just saying...
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You must like being shot. I don't. If it was an attack, here in Illinois, we have no way to protect ourselves due to the inability to OC or CC. It seemed much safer outside where guns were not being fired. Call it cowardly, or whatever you feel like; maybe I respect my life more than others
 
2WheelsGood said:
I'm not so sure it's for the better. It's yet another crutch meant to protect people from themselves. All it does is continue to breed this mentality that it's OK to walk through life in a fog. What's going to happen when these guns leave the show? Is there always going to be someone around to put a zip-tie through the action?

You may be thinking that this is good for the rest of the participants. Maybe. But what happens when this same numbskull goes to the range for the first time and kills the guy in the lane next to him? Or what happens when he "cleans" it for the first time while his kid is in the next room watching TV?
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Everyone attending these shows aren't shooters, or old enough to handle weapons. There are many families, grandparents with grandchildren, etc enjoying talking about shooting sports and talking with veterans, or talking with friends and vendors they've gotten to know.

Making absolutely sure that the gun show is a safe environment is paramount in my opinion, so yes I think their changes are for the better.

No one should enter a gun show feeling that they're in an unsafe environment. The organizers of the show made sure that Sunday felt a whole lot safer than Saturday, and in my opinion the show should have been as safe on Saturday as they made it on Sunday.
 
2WheelsGood said:
No, what I'm saying is that in the attempt to make all things inherently safe, we're creating a society of people who live in a fog and take their safety for granted.

Look at cars. People feel so darn safe in their cars now-a-days that they eat with one hand while talking on the phone with the other. And let's not forget how all-wheel drive, traction control, and ABS just makes people think they can do 80 mph in snow.

My point is that zip-tying the actions may have the desired effect, but it just thickens the fog that the lemmings are already living in.
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Maybe it's living in a nanny state, or being a lemming in a fog - call it whatever you want.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I call it less chance of getting a bullet hole through me when I'm expecting my first child in September, because someone paid their $10 for an Illinois FOID card, is ignorant to gun safety and they're around tons of guns and tons of ammunition in a gun show that lets anyone in for $5.
 
stonecutter2 said:
Everyone attending these shows aren't shooters, or old enough to handle weapons.
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Gun shows aren't Disneyland. If your kids aren't under control they shouldn't be anywhere near guns or gun shows.

Making absolutely sure that the gun show is a safe environment is paramount in my opinion...
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Your attitude is why you aren't allowed to carry a gun where you live. The only way to make absolutely sure, as you put it, that nobody can be harmed by a gun is to keep them out of people's hands.
 
The nature of our free society puts us at risk to the fools among us. Foid, CW permit, hunter safety, POST certified, military vet or active. Out of 100 of any of these groups how many fools could you find? They are the ones who we presume to have at least basic knowledge of firearms, what about Joe blow off the street.
We endanger our freedom by wishing for more laws from the government to make us safer, I applaud the gun shows that take the safety initiatives on themselves be it zip ties on actions or mandatory unloaded carry guns.
 
2WheelsGood said:
Gun shows aren't Disneyland. If your kids aren't under control they shouldn't be anywhere near guns or gun shows.



Your attitude is why you aren't allowed to carry a gun where you live. The only way to make absolutely sure, as you put it, that nobody can be harmed by a gun is to keep them out of people's hands.
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We'll agree to disagree.

I don't see the big deal about using zip ties to secure guns in a crowded environment, filled with people who aren't necessarily conscientious about gun safety. You do. Zip ties are easily removed and reapplied on empty chambers as needed.

Honestly, I also don't take kindly to the low blow regarding why we can't have legal carry in this state. My attitude (as you put it) has nothing to do with denying our right to do so - it's almost squarely on the shoulders of Chicago Democrats who refuse to let it go up for a fair vote. Twisting my words around to that end, when I'm just a concerned gun owner about what happened on Saturday, doesn't seem very high road to me.
 
stonecutter2 said:
Honestly, I also don't take kindly to the low blow regarding why we can't have legal carry in this state.
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Why is that a low blow? You stated that you want an absolute guarantee to safety, and I'm just telling you that same premise is what drives gun control advocates.
 
2WheelsGood said:
Why is that a low blow? You stated that you want an absolute guarantee to safety, and I'm just telling you that same premise is what drives gun control advocates.
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I got a sense of absolute safety, illusion or otherwise, by actions being zip tied open.

The low blow was your insinuation i have anything personally to do with carry laws not passing in this state "Your attitude is why...". I've done quite a bit to aid the cause of getting carry laws to pass in IL.

I am far from a gun control advocate. If your goal was to hit a nerve, mission accomplished.

I don't doubt that I poorly expressed myself in my posts, and your dissection of my words have shown that I have. Just don't accuse me of being a gun control advocate.
 
stonecutter2 said:
I got a sense of absolute safety, illusion or otherwise, by actions being zip tied open.
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Now you're misunderstanding me. My comment wasn't about the zip-ties. My comment was about your desire for "absolute safety" <-- your words. I'm saying the anti's desire for absolute safety is the reason they use for wanting more gun control. Therefor the comparison.
 
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