By all accounts, Rosa Parks was curt that day. I'm paraphrasing, but she told the driver and the police officer she was tired, and she was going to remain seated. Because her reason is considered righteous now it's looked upon as those questioning her right to remain seated were the bad guy but the situation really isn't all that different.
Guy open carries an AK, stopped breifly by cops.
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2WheelsGood
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She took a very real risk of being beaten and killed by an angry mob of people. This guy risked nothing. He took the opportunity to spout off to a couple cops. Not all that different?
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Comparing the issue of open carry rights to that of the civil rights movement strikes me as a tremendously ill-advised thing to do.
If you don't or don't want to get the principle that's fine but by your logic anyone who doesn't risk injury or death to do something is wasting their time.
Why? Doesn't the second amendment describe one of our civil rights?
DM0217
Member
MY take on this is...that everyone has been dumbed down by the pc agenda. "It scares people". Thats a good reason to stop exercising your rights. The first cop bullied him. Hmmmm...why are cops bullying anybody? Mr "AK's" attitude was wrong. I will agree. When cops approach me I kill'em with kindness. "Good morning officer", "Good day officer", etc, etc, etc. Where I take issue is when comments like..."an AK looks like a terrorist weapon" No it is a terrorist weapon. So what. If the sheeple are too stupid to know and exercise their rights they don't deserve to have them, better yet they don't deserve to be an "American". We have more important things to worry about than why some ignorant human saw someone exercising their rights and called the cops. Anyway, that's what I think.
2WheelsGood
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Gun laws, however misguided, apply to everyone. Laws that apply to people based on the color of their skin are,,, well, if you don't see the difference, there's no point in trying to explain it to you.
That is a very narrow minded view point, civil rights encompass much more than skin color.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
The Atomic Nerds blog post I linked to previously does a much better job of explaining why comparing open carry rights to the civil rights movement makes you look like a crazy person than I ever could.
(Wondering if I should have made that bold and red, as evidently at least one of you failed to click on the link.)
What I got out of that windbag's blog is that he feels that you should be happy to have the rights you have and not use any of them in a way that might offend someone else.
In other words don't exercise any right that offends someone else.
That might be the most un-American opinion that I have ever read. Thinking like that only works for an agoraphobic, I am actually shocked to read it on a Pro Constitution forum.
Can you not make the mental leap and apply that thinking to other things as well?
Some people are offended by fur, hunting, eating meat, wearing leather, BACON...The list is all encompassing, every day that you go out in public you probably offend someone while exercising a right.
How many people that you interact with daily would be offended by the gun you likely are secreting on your person if they knew?
In other words don't exercise any right that offends someone else.
That might be the most un-American opinion that I have ever read. Thinking like that only works for an agoraphobic, I am actually shocked to read it on a Pro Constitution forum.
Can you not make the mental leap and apply that thinking to other things as well?
Some people are offended by fur, hunting, eating meat, wearing leather, BACON...The list is all encompassing, every day that you go out in public you probably offend someone while exercising a right.
How many people that you interact with daily would be offended by the gun you likely are secreting on your person if they knew?
That explains why .gov feels they can take them away.
A group of men who, IMO were far more capable of thinking outside the box (and probably far more intelligent) than anyone on an internet forum agreed rights were/are endowed by a creator.
.gov has NOTHING to give anyone.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
If that's all you got out of that blog post, which, btw, is maintained by easily a couple of the smartest people in the blogosphere, I'm not sure that I can help you at all.
At no point in the blog entry does the author advocate the removal or infringement of anyone's civil rights. However, they do lay out a series of fundamentally rational critiques of some of the "strategies" undertaken by stunt carriers that are far more likely to alienate all but the choir they're members of.
The majority of people in this country are not offended by hunting, omnivorism, or wearing leather. Nor is there an overt political movement to forcibly remove those things from society. The gun rights movement has come a long way, but if we're to continue making headway, it behooves us not to reinforce preconceived notions about gun owners being a bunch of trigger-happy kill junkies.
That some are culturally tone-deaf that you can't actually rationally address the points raised in the original post causes me to think that the author has likely hit on a fundamental truth that some supposed gun rights advocates can't understand that they're actually doing far more harm than good.
All of my co-workers know that I carry, including my liberal Democrat of a boss. It took some work to convince him that concealed carry actually rendered him safer than not. How much easier do you think that conversation would have gone if I insisted on open-carrying an aesthetically threatening "assault weapon" while trying to make my point?
Seriously, give that some thought and let me know what you think.
I have never advocated "stunt carrying" but I also understand that the guy in the video was wrongfully denied his permit and in his shoes I would be pissed too.
Of course I don't think that trying to convince your boss that carrying concealed would make him safer would go better with you open carrying a long gun although I must admit I don't know what it is about a given long gun that makes it more aesthetically threatening than another.
You are right about one thing, gun owners are definitely their own worst enemy. Instead of trying to use logic many prefer to use emotion and base what is done off of what a thing looks like.
I'll have to take your word on the quality and intelligence of that blogger, sounds like a tool to me.
Of course I don't think that trying to convince your boss that carrying concealed would make him safer would go better with you open carrying a long gun although I must admit I don't know what it is about a given long gun that makes it more aesthetically threatening than another.
You are right about one thing, gun owners are definitely their own worst enemy. Instead of trying to use logic many prefer to use emotion and base what is done off of what a thing looks like.
I'll have to take your word on the quality and intelligence of that blogger, sounds like a tool to me.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Unless you're privy to mrak47master's (sic) legal record, you don't know whether or not he was wrongfully denied a permit.
And even if he was wrongfully denied a permit, the proper procedure would be to hire a lawyer and get the situation resolved through the legal system, not engage in stunt carrying.
firemanstrickland
Member
i dont mind the protest, thats all well and good, but.......all that does is draw bad attention to gun owners and im all for open carry but i beleive he may have taken it a little to far.
xcgates
Member
You know, I had a long, probably not very elegant post written up, but I'll leave it with this.
This is going (has gone?) the same way many (most? all?) OC debates go. Some say it offends and you shouldn't do it, and some say they don't go to far.
The guy is legal, yes he didn't behave very well, but there is no law saying you must be nice. Cops had better have reasonable cause to detain someone, though in the original video, I never saw him make an effort to leave, he continued to engage the officers long past where I would have taken my leave, and forced their hand if they wanted to officially detain me. They can ask me all the questions they want, just like anyone else can ask anything they want, and if I don't want to answer, I won't.
I will also carry long guns if it is legal, and I have reason to.
This is going (has gone?) the same way many (most? all?) OC debates go. Some say it offends and you shouldn't do it, and some say they don't go to far.
The guy is legal, yes he didn't behave very well, but there is no law saying you must be nice. Cops had better have reasonable cause to detain someone, though in the original video, I never saw him make an effort to leave, he continued to engage the officers long past where I would have taken my leave, and forced their hand if they wanted to officially detain me. They can ask me all the questions they want, just like anyone else can ask anything they want, and if I don't want to answer, I won't.
I will also carry long guns if it is legal, and I have reason to.
2WheelsGood
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Reasonable cause is the key word. If a cop sees someone driving down the street weaving back and forth, is it reasonable to assume they're drunk? Weaving doesn't prove you're drunk, but it sure is reasonable enough to assume you are for a cop to be justified in pulling you over.
A mob of guys walking down the street wearing white sheets and carrying torches may not be doing anything illegal at the moment, but I guarantee they're going to get more attention from the police than a group of Girl Scouts. Again, reasonable.
What are the total number of citizens (not military) who have ever walked down the street open-carrying an AK-47? Maybe .001%? It's pretty darn rare. Is it "reasonable" to stop someone when you see this incredibly rare occurrence? Maybe. I can tell you that unless I knew the person, if I saw someone walking down my street with an AK, I'd keep a pretty close eye on him.
I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect cops not to bat an eyelash at someone walking down the street carrying an AK. Maybe some day in the future if it becomes far more common, then it may not be such a big deal.
I live in Michigan, and I'm telling you that anyone open-carrying even a handgun is an EXTREMELY rare sight. Walk down the streets of Detroit carrying an AK and you'll get shot either by some gang-banger or a cop long before you'll get to explain yourself. But hey, at least you'll die being right.
cassandrasdaddy
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fc how old were you when rosa parks rode that bus?
TexasRifleman
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9 pages in and the thread has spread all over the place, as they usually do by that time.
We''ve gone from comments directly about the video, to the LE "us vs them", to Rosa Parks and civil rights.
It has gone where pretty much every open carry thread on THR goes in other words. Most have had their say and few will change their minds. That's OK but it's time to stop before the personal attacks kick in.
We''ve gone from comments directly about the video, to the LE "us vs them", to Rosa Parks and civil rights.
It has gone where pretty much every open carry thread on THR goes in other words. Most have had their say and few will change their minds. That's OK but it's time to stop before the personal attacks kick in.
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