H&K MP5 SD .22 LR. Any thoughts?

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Sour Kraut

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Thinking of getting the H&K MP5 SD .22 LR. Looks just like the MP5. It's a little spendy for a .22, but I really like the design.

Would really like it in 9mm, but way out of my league ($)!:what:

Why is the 9mm so much more expensive? :confused:
 
That gun is made by Umarex but with the HK name on it. I haven't heard anything about it though. I have however heard of nothing but good with the GSG 5 MP5 look-a-like in .22LR.
 
The gun you are referring to is made by Walther/Umarex and really isn't an HK at all aside from having licensed the model name, appearance and brand. They are a lot of fun, but frankly, they are built like airsoft guns. I'm not saying the mighty .22 rimfire will destroy the airsoft armature, but it's something you should be aware of up front.

The reasons why a 9mm roller-locked MP5 clone costs so much is a combination of factors. They were banned from importation in '89. HK either was not willing, or did not have the means or the willingness to make the MP5 series here in the states to get around the import ban. What we wound up with (and still have) is a US clone market for new production guns. Production numbers are much smaller than what you would expect. Not everyone is willing to plunk down $1,200+ and then be willing to spend up to $200 or $300 more to sort out any potential issues that may (or may not) arise. Up until recently, there was only one man in charge of the clone MP5 market; Todd Bailey. Notorious for his customer service and hit-or-miss build quality, it has to be acknowledged that for those of us with limited funds, he was the only viable path to an MP5 clone. There have been companies that used Todd bailey components to build their own rifles (Bobcat and Vector coming to mind), but we are not talking large production numbers here. Nowadays you have a couple of great custom builders, but be prepared to spend twice as much.

If you want an MP5 clone, then I would recommend educating yourself and then deciding if you want to take the plunge. if you decide that you don't want to jump off the diving board, then the .22lr might be the best choice for you.

Here's something I put together to help folks who might be interested in finding and purchasing a 9mm MP5 clone. It doesn't address rifles such as Vulcan, Hesse, LUSA, or MKE, as they have some features that differentiate them from the regular MP5 pattern.

Enjoy the cheetah chase! ;)
 
I happen to own one of the HK .22s and they are definitely not "Airsoft" guns, nor are they built like one. I've probably shot close to 600 rounds through mine with minimal malfunctions. I will say "minimal" because you are bound to get the occasional round that does fire.

The takedown is similar to the bigger brother, with pushpins instead of screws. The bolt system also allows you to increase spring tension on the bolt to adjust to the ammo used. My Hk worked fine from the factory with everything from CCI stingers to bulk box remington ammo.I would definitely rate the HK as a better product than the GSG series.

As for durability, I haven't heard of anyone destroying theirs as of yet.
 
"I happen to own one of the HK .22s and they are definitely not "Airsoft" guns, nor are they built like one."

I handled one at a gunship and examined pretty closely. Seemed to be pretty well made, so I was surprised at the comment.
 
*Drum Roll* Can you guess what Umarex makes? *Drum Roll* Airsoft guns!

The presence of push pins doesn't make it even remotely close to the MP5 design. The MP5 has a folded stamped steel receiver, not a clamshell screwed together construction. The MP5 trunion and barrel are not user-removable units (not without a multi-ton press), nor does the MP5 have a zinc housing trunion/housing unit as is found in the Umarex. The MP5 uses a roller delayed blowback operation whereas the Umarex .22 is a direct blowback gun. Allen screws don't hold the MP5 receiver together as they do on the Umarex. The grip housing on the MP5 has molded-in steel which engages the receiver and stock, compared to the extended zinc alloy in the Umarex grip housing. Looking closer at the grip frame and trigger pack, there really is very little in common between the two guns other than a push-pin arrangement and external appearances when assembled.

Sorry, but this gun really isn't built like an MP5 at all. It is built just the same as Umarex's Airsoft guns. Clamshell construction and zinc alloy included...

I guess in order to understand you will have had to have actually disassembled and understood an MP5 pattern, roller-delayed blowback gun. Only then will you see that there is very, very little in common.

The Umarex/HK .22 is not an MP5 in the same way that the Colt/Umarex .22 rifle is not an M4.
 
"Sorry, but this gun really isn't built like an MP5 at all. It is built just the same as Umarex's Airsoft guns. Clamshell construction and zinc alloy included...

I guess in order to understand you will have had to have actually disassembled and understood an MP5 pattern, roller-delayed blowback gun. Only then will you see that there is very, very little in common.

The Umarex/HK .22 is not an MP5 in the same way that the Colt/Umarex .22 rifle is not an M4."

Ok....makes sense....no disrespect on you original comments.... I am not very knowledgable on the HK, I just thought this Umarex model seem pretty "substantial" when I handled it. I've shot an MP5 but that was many years ago and I certainly haven't compared the two side by side, let alone have them apart. Thanks for the comparison of the two.
 
I have fired the "real" MP5 as well as dissasembled the weapon. I am also familiar with other HK series of weapons.

If we want to get picky, I'd venture to say that the vast majority of MP5s on the market are clones....aka...copies and not the real weapon.

No matter what..a clone is not a MP5.

The. 22 MP5 has about as much similarity to the parent rifle as. a 22 conversion for an AR or a purose built weapon in. 22. They were never designed to take the role of the parent weapon, only to provide the same handling characteristics while shooting a low cost round.

So to use th same arguement...a MP5 clone in 9mm or other caliber is just that..a copy because Hk won't allow the majority of the population to have a REAL HK in a civilian legal and affordable semi auto configuration.
 
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Well, I have one of the MP5SD .22 rifles and I like mine a lot. It's been very reliable even wtih Remington bulk pack ammo (other than the occasional dud) and more accurate than it has a right to be. As far as take down and cleaning goes, for general cleaning, I just take off the lower and get in there with Q-tips and pipe cleaners as best I can. I have about 1,000+ rounds through mine and it hasn't given me any problems to warrant taking it apart further. When the day comes that it does get that filthy, I will tear it apart but my biggest problem with doing that is that I will probably have to re-zero it again (got to take the rear sight off to take the receiver apart) but that's not a deal breaker. I have worked with enough real MP-5s (both Navy and SD versions) at work to know that the .22 version is nothing like the original when it comes to internal parts and function but then again, I don't expect it to be. The controls are in the same location, the manual of arms is the same so for a low cost training gun, it's great...and besides, it's a whole lot of fun with a uber-sexy little carbine.:p
 
This is a little off topic from the original post, but it seems to me that an MP5 type of weapon in 9mm would be a perfect home defense weapon even without burst or full auto capability. Compared to a handgun: 25 rounds, short stock, longer barrel etc. Is there anything out there similar to a real MP5 in 9mm for civilian use?

Affordable, decent quality, and reliable? Suggestions?
 
Compared to a handgun: 25 rounds, short stock, longer barrel etc. Is there anything out there similar to a real MP5 in 9mm for civilian use?

I would love for HK to build an MP5 in 9mm produced in the US in semi auto form and marketed for home defense. I have read a lot about the clones and just dont think they are something I would want. Right now, the best best for a 9mm carbine is probably the Beretta Storm or the Keltec Sub2000.
 
Affordable, decent quality, and reliable? Suggestions?
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Vector Uzi, Century Uzi only if dirt cheap. They'd be my choices for a 9mm "HD" carbine. I have a real Dagenham Sterling Carbine - but the Uzi grip-safety does it for me as an under-the-bed gun - and is less unweildy than the Sterling.
 
One option - Marlin Camp 9. Uses S&W 5906 mags; plenty of 30 rounders available.

The MP5SD 22 is a blast. Feels far better to me than the GSG. And while it ain't a "real" MP5, it has reliably spewed all the 22LR I've thrown at it. Far cheaper to shoot than the real MP5 in 9mm or 10mm. I prefer the 10mm as it (and the 22LR) hold bolt open on empty mag while my 9mm or HK53 in 5.56x45 do not. They all chow brass, decreasing or eliminating possibility of reloading. I thought $500 was a lot for a 22 but decided the smile it gave me was worth at least $450.
 
Compared to a handgun: 25 rounds, short stock, longer barrel etc. Is there anything out there similar to a real MP5 in 9mm for civilian use?

I've owned a Marlin Camp 9 and an AR in 9mm. Have tried the Beretta Storm and the Uzi. To be completely honest, there is nothing out there that compares favorably with an MP5 pattern gun. The roller-delayed blowback action of the MP5 eliminates most of the recoil, whereas a direct blowback 9mm AR kicks as much as a 5.56mm carbine. The Marlin Camp 9 also has a good bit more recoil than the MP5. With an MP5 in a standing position, I can put three rounds into a torso-sized target at 25 yards in about 1 second. I haven't been able to do that with any other 9mm carbines. I attribute it to the roller-delayed action of the MP5 that practically eliminates muzzle rise and recoil.

If budget is a big concern/focus for this project, then I would go with a Vector Uzi to the tune of about $700. I have heard good things about the Century/Wiselite Sterling carbines, but I have heard of some problems as well.

If we want to get picky, I'd venture to say that the vast majority of MP5s on the market are clones....aka...copies and not the real weapon.

No matter what..a clone is not a MP5.

Owning both real HK roller-locked rifles and clones, I'll break the news that from the materials and design standpoint, there is little or no difference for most parts, and in some cases, some of the the "clone" features can even be superior. With the real, mystical HK you get a nitrided barrel made from magical mystery steel. You also get some ugly welds and a scratch-prone, epoxy based painted finish. On an older HK with a metal grip housing, you usually have some fore and aft play that doesn't bode well for consistency and accuracy. In the clone world one can choose a stainless barrel, or a nitrided one, fluted chamber or no flutes. A lot of the current builders are executing much better looking welds with the same penetration as factory HK. Current finishes are (more often than not) superior to what HK was spraying and baking. The stainless steel cast receivers that Special Weapons put out are highly sought after as they are extremely tough and even stronger than their folded and welded stamped steel counterparts.

There's as many clone "haters" out there as there is misinformation about them. The biggest problem with them is since they are more of a boutique production item, the buyer/owner needs to know a lot about them to be able to identify & correct any potential issues and not completely rely on the "send it back" school of thought. Sure, a factory HK is more of a battle-ready firearm than a clone whose quality has not yet been proven, but there are a lot of clones out there than have proven to run like sewing machines.
 
There's as many clone "haters" out there as there is misinformation about them.

At the same time there are haters that claim everything is "airsoft". I still remember the Para Ordnance fiasco where folks stated that they were dangerous and inferior because the parent company also produced airsoft type rifles.

I have yet to see definitive proof to say that Umarex or Walther is manufacturing the rifles. Folks tend to ignore the Walther name and focus on the Umarex.

Again, no matter how superior a clone may claim to be, without the markings, you can't claim to have the "real" HK.
 
my buddy has one. He just loves it to death. I haven't tried it myself.

Now somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there was a recall on the original models of that gun. ATF decided that the sd model was actually suppressing the sound some (a decible or 2) and therefore considered an unlicensed suppressor. or something like that.
 
The recall only applied to a certain model made by GSG.

I've handled both the GSG and HK (I know it's made by Walther\Uramex) and the HK definitely feels a little heftier and more like an actual weapon.
 
The BATFE recall was on the ATI/GSG GSG-5SD imported into the USA.
BATFE determined that the SD shroud on the GSG-5SD was a "noise suppressor".
Those GSG-5SD were recalled and "fixed".
Post-recall GSG-5SD and current GSG-522SD are good to go (not considered to have "noise suppressors).

GSG developed the GSG-5/GSG-522 from the "MP5" airsoft they make.
Umarex had Walther make a .22LR version of the MP5 airsoft they are licensed to make from H&K.

The H&K/Umarex/Walther .22LR HK416 and .22LR MP5 were first available as airsoft, in addition Umarex has also made a MP7 airsoft, which is being developed into a .22LR firearm.

GSG also developed/makes the SIG Mosquito and SIG 1911 .22LR for SIG.
Umarex also developed/makes the S&W M&P-22 (pistol) for S&W.


I recommend the H&K/Umarex MP-5 .22LR over the ATI/GSG GSG-5/GSG-522.
The Umarex is built better than the GSG.
 
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I have a GSG and it is a pretty good little fun carbine. Umarex has a splotchy reputation in general, but I do not have any experience with their MP5 clone. It may be better then the GSG, but I don't see how it is really going to matter. The GSG is doing fine, and its not going to be anything more than a range toy any way.
 
At the same time there are haters that claim everything is "airsoft". I still remember the Para Ordnance fiasco where folks stated that they were dangerous and inferior because the parent company also produced airsoft type rifles.

It's built like an airsoft, period. It seems apparent that you've never seen the insides of an airsoft rifle, but it uses the same clamshell construction held together by screws and incorporates zinc alloys for the firing control units.
I have yet to see definitive proof to say that Umarex or Walther is manufacturing the rifles. Folks tend to ignore the Walther name and focus on the Umarex.

Well, I've seen them at SHOT show displayed at the Umarex booth, and on top of that, this image (from Atlantic Firearms) plainly shows the receiver markings reading "Made by Carl Walther Germany."

Again, no matter how superior a clone may claim to be, without the markings, you can't claim to have the "real" HK.

You're free to believe what you want to believe. I own and regularly shoot my real HKs and clones (and I am not in the business of selling firearms) so I'm not exactly blowing smoke out of my bum.
 
Why does it matter if it is built like an airsoft rifle? It is a 22LR. You could probably shoot it for 100 years and never wear it out.
 
I have however heard of nothing but good with the GSG 5 MP5 look-a-like in .22LR.

Then you need to dig.

I though I wanted one at one point ... Then I browsed through the dedicated GSG5 forums on other sites. There are some glaring design issues with the gun that the Germans refuse to correct despite repeated pleading from their US distributors. NO THANKS.
 
I dont know about GSG's in general, but I have one with about 500 rounds thru with no issues at all. It is a great little range toy.
 
I was going to buy a GSG till I read of some of the problems some have experienced.
My research also showed that those who owned both the GSG and the HK MP5 22 found the HK to be a better made rifle...
I was all set to buy HK when I stumbled into a 1968 Ruger 10/22 that was NIB...I decided it would fill my needs and could be a tacticool 22 also.
 
As Desert Fox said: "I thought $500 was a lot for a 22 but decided the smile it gave me was worth at least $450."

LOL! And that's what it's for......thanks!
 
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