Handgun For Dangerous Game

[Hesa Hard1]

To preface this, yes… I know a long gun is always preferred to a handgun for the topic.

Good. Otherwise you're presumed to be either a newbie or a troll.

Secondly, the dangerous game in question is four legged, and occupies the N. American continent. Everything from S. MS hogs to Alaskan grizzly, moose, and etc.
* * *
I have a butcher friend who swears by his 9x19mm for everything, with the proper bullet… is there a snowball’s chance in Hell of any run-of-the-mill 9x19 competing with a hot rodded big bore ? Heck, can 10mm compare w/ a hot rodded big bore?

First, your butcher friend is an idjit. Idjits advising on topics like this will get someone unawares killed.

Second, on the subject of 'bear protection,' not hunting, I assume you know the 10mm AUTO is Mil-issue - the issued platform being the Gen4 Glock 20 - to Denmark's Sledge Patrol units whose soldiers operate in the arctic regions of Greenland.

Not infrequently, while out on patrol or in their base camps, they have sudden, random encounters with Polar bears. The Polar species are documented as being more aggressive than Alaska's brownies and Grizzs.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/11/06/glocks-m1917s-the-redoubtable-arms-of-the-greenland-patrol

Soooo, if you find yourself out and about in the wilds of the AK boonies, a G20 or a longslide G40, hot-loaded with heavy 200grn or 220grn HC slugs and holstered in a center-chest rig, will make for a comforting campion during your sojourns ... especially the obligatory 1a.m. scamper along the snowy trail to the outhouse.

 

[LaneP]

My brother regularly hikes Colorado mountain trails for scenic photography and insists nothing less than a .500 S&W with 350 gr JHP is suitable. He flies it out and back for that purpose. For me, a .454 Casull with heavy hard cast (325 gr+) loaded around 1400 fps from a 7.5" bbl and I would not feel undergunned.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Second, on the subject of 'bear protection,' not hunting, I assume you know the 10mm AUTO is Mil-issue - the issued platform being the Gen4 Glock 20 - to Denmark's Sledge Patrol units whose soldiers operate in the arctic regions of Greenland

I've carried a glock 20 and other 10mms since long before there was a gen 4. When I started bragging up the 10mm the FBI was still looking into the 1076. I own several. And I have read about the Sirius patrol throwing out their worthless SIG P210 for the far superior Glock.... i even suggested it above as the absolute bear minimum (see what i did there) BUT I also know they carry a 30-06 too. I wonder how often (if ever) they even engage a polar bear....much less pass up their 30-06 to use the hand artillery piece that is the Glock.

 

[Hesa Hard1]

I've carried a glock 20 and other 10mms since long before there was a gen 4. When I started bragging up the 10mm the FBI was still looking into the 1076. I own several. And I have read about the Sirius patrol throwing out their worthless SIG P210 for the far superior Glock....

It was a 9mm pistol they dumped. I thought it was the Sig 226, but I could be wrong.

i even suggested it above as the absolute bear minimum (see what i did there) BUT I also know they carry a 30-06 too. I wonder how often (if ever) they even engage a polar bear....much less pass up their 30-06 to use the hand artillery piece that is the Glock.

I see what you did there ...

The Sledge Patrol soldiers are also issued modified U.S. M1917s in .30-06, but they're not always carrying the rifle nor is one necessarily within immediate reach when a Polar decides to charge. These guys are often working with their hands doing other patrol assignments, tasks, or camp chores.

Their G20s, however, are holstered on their person.

 

[crestoncowboy]

It was a 9mm pistol they dumped. I thought it was the Sig 226, but I could be wrong.

Nope. That wouldn't have been QUITE as big of a kick in the nuts to Sig guys. Lol. It was the 210. (Although the SEALS did dump the horrible 226 for the much greater Glock. Like the NJSP did the p7..... Because well....perfection. had Hans Gruber carried a Glock 20 we wouldn't have had to suffer through those last 10 John McCain movies). Funny how when the SEALS used the 226 over the Beretta 92 all you heard was "unlimited budget" "get whatever they want" "have the best of the best" but now that they use the Glock its "bean counters" lol. Funny how Fandom works.

And I do wonder how often, if ever, they engage a polar bear. Im sure they don't talk about it much ....The climate change, Peta, save the polar bear types would be upset. I have taken many deer with 10mm though. Excellent choice imo. Just stay away from the jamming 1076 that the FBI couldn't get to function.....

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Probably happens more often than you think, but is not publicized at all

 

[crestoncowboy]

Probably happens more often than you think, but is not publicized at all

I wasn't implying at all actually. Id be genuinely curious. Where I'm at the black bear are quite friendly but I have had 2 encounters where I began to wonder. They generally turn and run before you even see them. They also interact or at least hear people regularly so the more remote bear may be more curious or even aggressive. I don't know.

I would Siriusly like to know. (See what I did there)

 

[CDW4ME]

Yes- You live in FL. I would expect your knowledge of the four-legged threat matrix in my area or other similar mountain areas to be limited. Like my signature says, there are different neighborhoods.

Yea, I'm in FL, lived in KY 54 years prior.
I think a psychotic / drugged armed human as dangerous as a Grizzly, kill you just as easily.
How often does a Grizzly kill multiple people in one event? A "bad" armed human is the most dangerous thing on the planet.
You choose a 22/25 or 32/380 rather than at least 9mm to defend against a armed human(s)? I don't.

 

[Obturation]

If the revolvers that chambered 500 magnum weren't so massive I'd have one but for similar weight you can carry a rifle. I stopped at 454 casull, if I need bigger, I'll use a rifle.

Beyond the size/weight it depends on what your tolerance for recoil is. I can't justify my 454 revolvers because I've never been to Alaska and 357 or 10mm will kill just about anything in the lower 48 and if you're good they'll cover Alaska too.

Other reason I settled on 454 is the huge variety of components , you won't get the same coverage in 475/480 or 500. Truthfully, loaded near the top end the 454 casull is a vicious cartridge on both ends. The intent for my 5" super redhawk is to be carried when I won't have a rifle or shotgun. I've taken it camping and hiking but a 10mm would have been enough for anything I've carried bigger guns for.

9mm can work but I'm not betting my butt on it, I don't like 9mm much at all and I don't use it for 2 legged animals either. Best to just find a magnum revolver you like and learn to shoot it effectively.

 

[Obturation]

As kind of an all around handgun, I like my Ruger Toklat. For me it is a good balance of size and power. I can shoot light .45 Colt loads or go up to the .454 if needed.

Not my gun, but here is a picture:

View attachment 1048118

Yep, the toklat. It's my choice too.

 

[crestoncowboy]

If you must carry a 44 for SD, i throw out the 329 pd. 6 rounds of 44 magnum and weighs about the same as a loaded Glock 20 magazine. Honest. You Can forget its on your hip. The weight doesn't help its recoil....and it may be the ugliest smith ive ever seen. But....



(See what I did there....) lol

All fine choices

 

[Iwsbull]

Always thought if you are Going into harms way carry whatever you are willing to bet your life on or the life of the people in your charge.

 

[Stumper]

Crestoncowboy, I shot a 329 pd once. One cylinder full. Hit the bull with every shot. I handed it back to the owner and told him "I don't want to shoot it again....ever." It does make sense as a packable bear defender but it is brutal to shoot with full power ammo. My personal opinion is that the Mountain Gun is about as light as a .44 mag should be.....and about as heavy as I want to pack around. It is cool that we have options and can choose what works for each individual. Blessings!

 

[burrhead]

Back in the 70s, JD Jones (SSK) and and Larry Kelley (Mag-na-port) were hunting real dangerous game in Africa using TC Contender pistols in 375 JDJ. Elephants, Cape buffalo, lions, etc. That takes some serious huevos. I remember reading about it when is was going on.

https://gunsmagazine.com/ammo/375-jdj/

 

[loneviking]

I carry a Model 28, loaded with Buffalo Bore heavy 357 mag outdoorsman. A 180 gr round doing about 1400 fps. My area has black bears, mountain lions, meth labs and the occasional illegal pot farm.

 

[CDW4ME]

Hiked over 7 miles yesterday, area has black bear, wild pigs, and those two legged animals responsible for most attacks on people.
Carried the same handgun I do when walking the dogs, shopping, (Wal-Mart) where I may encounter the most dangerous animal on the planet.
Glock 20SF - I've done some comparative shooting with it lately and it would be preferred in hand if I had to defend myself against whatever.




What did I have to do to conceal such a big gun in the heat? Same thing as always, loose untucked shirt.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Crestoncowboy, I shot a 329 pd once. One cylinder full. Hit the bull with every shot. I handed it back to the owner and told him "I don't want to shoot it again....ever." It does make sense as a packable bear defender but it is brutal to shoot with full power ammo. My personal opinion is that the Mountain Gun is about as light as a .44 mag should be.....and about as heavy as I want to pack around. It is cool that we have options and can choose what works for each individual. Blessings!

With the factory Ahrends its brutal.. mine were smooth but ive seen checkered ones too.. with the factory rubber grips its pretty bad. But if you buy an X frame tamer grip its not super duper bad. They fit perfect. Something like 20 bucks straight from Smith. Its no all day shoot for fun gun though. Thats a fact. Lol. I also replace that God awful rear V sight and use a proper U. I had a normal front sight instead of the fiber when I used it for hunting but when I had to send the gun back I put the fiber back on and haven't swapped it back. The fiber is great for SD. Not so great for hunting. Its a huge fiber. Not like the fiber on my x-frames. But 20 some ounces and 44 magnum. Most comfortable gun ive carried around the fence line. I usually have it or a 5.7. Depends if im going to get attacked by a bear or I'm going to shoot a groundhog or coyote that day.... Lol. But usually I have the 329 when out in the woods. Its just so light. Even compared to the Glock 29 or the 1911s in 10mm

 

[Richard Jay King]

I cannot think of any animal in the lower 48 that would really pose a serious threat other than a Grizzly bear....If you buy that then for light weight protection first choice would be a carbine in .45-70 or a 12 gauge riot gun loaded with 5 slugs "should" work. If you will be using two hands all the time such as fishing then if it were me...nothing less than a .454 Casull in a packable 4 1/2" to 5 1/2" barrel. But the safest option is to just not go where Grizzly bears are..

 

[The Glockodile]

For me, in Alaska, I carry a pawn shop XD45 Tactical "converted" to handle 45 Super (barrel and springs).

Does .45 Super require a new barrel?

 

[Nasty Canasta]

If I feel the need I have Ruger Alaskan for just such an occasion. I've seen a lot of predators in the woods & none have ever messed with me-it's exciting to think about, prepare & practice for the possibility but like most SD scenarios it will likely never happen if your aware of your surroundings & actions.

Hunting dangerous game with a handgun is something I won't be participating in.

 

[Hesa Hard1]

Probably happens more often than you think, but is not publicized at all

Yeah, that's what I think.

Plus, the Sledge Patrol soldiers wouldn't be under any obligation to report killing a Polar bear, except possibly to higher-ups as a matter of internal records of the Patrol. And the Danish military wouldn't be under any constraint to disclose to outside organizations (e.g., PETA, International Humane Society) how frequently their soldiers encounter Polar bears, nor how many of those encounters result in having to dispatch one.

Again, the soldiers aren't up there hunting. Any use of deadly force with their G20s or rifles is for self-defense/protection.

 

[Hesa Hard1]

If you must carry a 44 for SD, i throw out the 329 pd. 6 rounds of 44 magnum and weighs about the same as a loaded Glock 20 magazine. Honest. You Can forget its on your hip. The weight doesn't help its recoil....and it may be the ugliest smith ive ever seen. But....
View attachment 1048211
View attachment 1048212

(See what I did there....) lol
View attachment 1048213
All fine choices

Interesting ... but self-defeating at day's end for the Big-Bore Magnum Revolver (BBMR) fans.

A full-loaded (15+1) G20 will weigh the less that the typical BBRM. And by typical, I'm talking about the models usually advertised or recommended for carry in "bear country," especially Alaska.

These tend to be heavy, thick-barreled 5- or 6-shot 44s, 454s, 500s, etc., all of them low capacity boat-anchors.

Worse, a lot of them sport sub-4" barrels which immediately imparts two huge negatives: (1) horrific first-shot recoil and muzzle blast, which makes a quick and accurate follow-up shot under stress unlikely; and (2) most of the factory ammo produced for BBMRs is vetted with 6" or 8" factory "test barrels" (occasionally 5") in order to advertise impressive velocity and energy numbers on the box-flap (i.e., fps/fpe).

Yet the shorter barrels of the BBMRs actually being carried (or advertised for carry) into AK bear country yield reduced velocities behind the magnum's Big Fat Heavy bullet, and thus compromise the key to its stopping power, which is supposed to be: heavy and fast, ... not heavy and "sorta slow."

Between a hard-kicking 2" or 3" barreled 454 wheelie offering 5-/6-rounds on tap versus a 10mm G20 or long-slide G40, packing 15+1 200grn or 220grn coated Hard Cast slugs (@ 1250+fps and 1200+fps, respectively), it's a no-brainer ... for me at least.

Not to mention, if you ask local AK residents what they holster-up with when heading into the boonies where the big bad bruins roam, overwhelming they'll say it's a 10mm semi-auto of some flavor, and if they do own a BBMR, it's just a range toy or a happily-retired safe queen.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Worse, a lot of them sport sub-4" barrels which immediately imparts two huge negatives:

4 inches is about the minimum for me for a Redhawk or n frame. They just feel right. My x frames are 8 inch. Blackhawks I prefer around 5-6 in a 44. 357 size guns I can go down to 2 or 2.5.

The 329 to me though is a perfect wood gun. I have many 10s but haven't carried one since I got the 329. Ive shot plenty since. But haven't carried.

And I certainly wasn't bashing the 10 to be clear. Ive been suggesting it for many years on here. Back when it was a dead niche round that only had 1 or two guns made in it. Only 2-3 factory rounds were made. Before there was a 10mm Sig p220, an M&P, an XD... etc etc

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Does .45 Super require a new barrel?

For the XD45, likely no. I have a thread on here about it.

The XD45 stock barrel has traditional rifling, and the 45 Super is hard casted. If I were running a polygonal rifled barrel like Glock or HK, I would avoid hardcasts.

The XD allegedly has a fully supported chamber in stock form, and appears to with the naked eye.

I do, however, have 2 storm lake barrels, one stainless that I carry and one threaded/comped that I use for the range.

It just makes me feel better. I have not seen any reports of the Croatians making weak barrels. I also don't know what kind of steel they use at the factory.

I've run it stock, with springs, with barrels, and a combination of all. It runs 45 Super in all forms. Just depends on how much it feels like the gun is getting beat up.

For me, Wolff extra power springs and a Storm lake barrels.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, if you can hunt it with a deer rifle, it ain't dangerous game. A cougar can certainly kill you deader than fried chicken but any defensive handgun will work on them. Same for your average black bear. With that in mind, the only dangerous game in North America are the great bears of the north. For them and anything bigger, I want a heavy hardcast or monolithic solid in cartridges beginning with the .44Mag. With the right bullet, you'll get all the penetration out of the .44 that you get with bigger cartridges. The .475's and .500's will gain you a larger wound channel, which causes more rapid blood loss. We found the limitations of cast bullets testing them on large bovines like water buffalo, watusi and similar critters. A cast bullet is guaranteed to deform at the very least. While the copper/bronze monolithics do not deform at all.

These tend to be heavy, thick-barreled 5- or 6-shot 44s, 454s, 500s, etc., all of them low capacity boat-anchors.

Worse, a lot of them sport sub-4" barrels which immediately imparts two huge negatives: (1) horrific first-shot recoil and muzzle blast, which makes a quick and accurate follow-up shot under stress unlikely; and (2) most of the factory ammo produced for BBMRs is vetted with 6" or 8" factory "test barrels" (occasionally 5") in order to advertise impressive velocity and energy numbers on the box-flap (i.e., fps/fpe).

Yet the shorter barrels of the BBMRs actually being carried (or advertised for carry) into AK bear country yield reduced velocities behind the magnum's Big Fat Heavy bullet, and thus compromise the key to its stopping power, which is supposed to be: heavy and fast, ... not heavy and "sorta slow."

It's comical the reasons people use to justify the 10mm as the be-all, end-all of outdoorsman cartridges. You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. FACT, a loaded Glock 20 weighs 40oz. Same as a 4" S&W 629 Mountain Gun. A 4" Redhawk, which is much more capable, is about 5oz heavier. So even the "revolvers are boat anchors" argument doesn't withstand much scrutiny. Further, I don't even know what sub-3" guns you're even talking about, other than the Ruger Alaskan.

Further, velocity is overrated. Any velocity loss when using a heavy for caliber hardcast bullet is irrelevant. It's the bullet that is the critical factor, anything over 1000fps is gravy. It's a joke that 10mm true believers would even make this argument because the 10mm is not exactly a speed demon. The 10mm is a fine cartridge but what it lacks is capacity. It doesn't have the capacity for the heavy bullets needed for this job. What is considered "heavy" in the 10mm, is standard weight in a revolver cartridge. Hell, a .41Special Colt SAA could match the 10mm's best loads, 30yrs ago. A 220gr 10mm is NOT a bear load. I don't care what ski patrol carries them or how many Cape buffalo that idiot Razor Dobbs has poked with them. It ain't enough and there's no way to make it enough. Sorry, bear loads begin with 320gr .44's and 335gr .45's. Going heavier to 355's and 360's respectively is not a bad idea either. I want to break a shoulder going in and a hip going out. These bullets will penetrate DOUBLE that of the best 10mm loads. Since we're not getting many exits on water buffalo with optimal bullets, you can bet your ass I'm not going any lighter. Read a few stories about bear maulings from people that lived and tell me again you want to compromise with the 10mm.

I don't pull any punches on this subject because people's lives could potentially depend on the choice they make. If you're carrying a 10mm for big bears, you're doing it because it's easy. Not because it's better or even good enough.



Let's also dispense with the idea that revolvers are painfully slow and 10mm autos are blazingly fast. It's nonsense.