Has this happened to you

[Deanimator]

Anybody who says anything other than yes sir, no sir and thank you sir is a taterhead looking for trouble.

...or somebody who knows the law and his rights. Of course some people equate the two. Whatever you call THEM, you shouldn't call them "Americans".

 

[DammitBoy]

or somebody who knows the law and his rights. Of course some people equate the two. Whatever you call THEM, you shouldn't call them "Americans".

I guess you're the kinda guy who would drive into an intersection because you've got the right of way, even though you see an 18 wheeler barreling through a redlight.

Common sense beats being right every time.

 

[Deanimator]

Common sense beats being right every time.

Fawning, servile obsequiousness isn't common sense. It's just fawning, servile obsequiousness.

The truck will KILL me. Are you implying that the cop will KILL me if he's not undeservedly called "sir", or if I assert my legal rights to refuse consent to a search or to remain silent?

 

[jnyork]

"In South Texas everyone is addressed as "sir" or "ma'am". What I observe at school is the practice occurs between: teachers-administrators, administrators-teachers, admin. -students, students-admin., parents-teacher, .....etc. I think you get the idea. I experience the same out in the community.

I believe this behavior is called "politeness". "

Has always worked for me everywhere I go. Doesnt hurt a thing to "sir" and "ma'am" folks, most appreciate it and a kindness shown will be a kindness usually returned to someone else. Also known a "civillity".

I think it is more of a regional thing, in Wyoming everyone has been a sir or ma'am since I was a little kid several moons ago. Probably dont see it too much back East or in San Francisco.

If you go to a military post or base of any service, you will immediately notice that everyone in uniform address you as "sir" or "ma'am" from the lowliest private to the base commander. This is the result of proper training , which most of today's youth are sorely lacking.

Flame suit on.

 

[Deanimator]

I think it is more of a regional thing, in Wyoming everyone has been a sir or ma'am since I was a little kid several moons ago.

Again, if the question is, "Would you like fries with that?" or "Got any spare change?", or "Can Johnny come out to play?", is your reply, "Yes, SIR" or "No, SIR"? If not, there's something more in play here.

 

[luigi]

how about we just show everyone the respect we think we deserve.

That was the smartest thing I read this whole post I want to make it a signature

 

[RioShooter]

Again, if the question is, "Would you like fries with that?" or "Got any spare change?", or "Can Johnny come out to play?", is your reply, "Yes, SIR" or "No, SIR"? If not, there's something more in play here.

Yes, sir. I do believe there's something more in play here. You might want to consider where your attitude comes from.

 

[Tinker]

"Again, if the question is, "Would you like fries with that?" or "Got any spare change?", or "Can Johnny come out to play?", is your reply, "Yes, SIR" or "No, SIR"? If not, there's something more in play here."

Deanimator,

The thing that "in play here" is cultural thing. I was raised in Texas. The man who raised me, my father, was from Alabama. The "Sir, Ma'am" thing was instilled in us boys very early. If you addressed anyone who'd been on the planet longer than you had, you added a Sir or Ma'am to questions or replies. Just "manners".

Same thing when it goes to how you talk to and in front of women. Pop told us: " You talk to ladies like they are ladies and talk to whores like they are ladies."

Don't get me wrong.....if an officer of the law is talking to me in his professional capacity I punctuate answers with "No, officer" or "Yes, officer.

I might say "Yes Sir" if he's older than 48 and appears to be a good ol' boy.

 

[Deanimator]

Don't get me wrong.....if an officer of the law is talking to me in his professional capacity I punctuate answers with "No, officer" or "Yes, officer.

I seem to recall saying that's EXACTLY what I'd do...

 

[Deanimator]

You might want to consider where your attitude comes from.

It comes from my utter refusal to recognize a caste system wherein I'm expected to treat him like he's better than I am. That might certainly bother him. I'm bothered that I'll probably never be able to spend a romantic weekend with Elizabeth Pena. Life has its little disappointments.

 

[Mike J]

I agree that the disagreement here is a culture thing. Growing up in Georgia we were taught to use sir & ma'am & be polite. Like Tinker I was taught to watch how I talked around women. I still remember the first time I slipped up & cussed in front of my Father he informed me, "if you want to talk that way around me or other men thats okay. If I hear you talking that way around your Mother or Sisters we're going to have a problem."
That said saying sir or ma'am isn't necessarily cowtowing or that other 50 cent word you used. An old school southerner can get someone told while using sir or ma'am without the first curse word being uttered.

 

[Dokkalfar]

Haha I've been in Texas for a while (far NE Dallas area) and I tend to use sir and ma'am alot till I got to college and started ROTC... that pretty much killed it

With police officers, my usual honorific is "Yes, officer" or "No, officer." Its not derogatory, or subservient, yet still more polite than just "yea."

But since I don't yet have a CHL, I haven't had a chance to try out the OP's scenario, not that I'd be all gung-ho to try it out.

 

[Deanimator]

I agree that the disagreement here is a culture thing. Growing up in Georgia we were taught to use sir & ma'am & be polite. Like Tinker I was taught to watch how I talked around women.

But we're not talking about "growing up" or the company of women, at least not women who aren't wearing uniforms and carrying guns. I'm 52 years old. I'm not treating some kid, especially a kid who doesn't know or respect the law, as my elder. It simply isn't going to happen.

We're talking about legal and social EQUALS. I do not consider that LEO socially superior to me, and I will not treat him as such. I will refer to him as "officer", "trooper", "Rittmeister" or whatever his actual title is. I ABSOLUTELY will not call him "sir", nor will I waive any of my legal rights merely because he's an LEO and WANTS me to.

We don't have a caste system in this country. I simply refuse to be bullied into acting as though we do.

 

[Doggy Daddy]

It comes from my utter refusal to recognize a caste system wherein I'm expected to treat him like he's better than I am.

If you refer to everyone as "sir" or "ma'am", then there is no caste system. Those are just words to use when the other person's name is unknown or would be clumsy if used.

"Would you like fries with that?"

"Yes, sir, I believe I would. Thanks for asking."

Does it degrade you that much to answer in a way that elevates the poor guy who has taken crap for his whole shift. Your little 3 letter honorific takes nothing from you, yet could make the rest of his shift bearable.

or

(from the neighbor kid) "Mr. DD, would you like to buy a Booster Bar to support our school band?"

"Yes sir! I love them things. I'll take ten, if you have them."

Try it on a small kid: "Well, hello sir. Your daddy has told me about you."
Makes a 6 year olds face light up.

If it hurts you that much to say it to a cop, try making a compound word out of it, like "yessir" or "nossir".

There's no real need to lower yourself or be an asshat.

DD

 

[9MMare]

We're talking about legal and social EQUALS. I do not consider that LEO socially superior to me, and I will not treat him as such. I will refer to him as "officer", "trooper", "Rittmeister" or whatever his actual title is. I ABSOLUTELY will not call him "sir", nor will I waive any of my legal rights merely because he's an LEO and WANTS me to.

We don't have a caste system in this country. I simply refuse to be bullied into acting as though we do.

This is an odd way to look at it, just IMO. For one thing, there is no rule or law to bully you....it's just a reflection of the individual how they choose to conduct themself.

For some cultures and some people, it's just 'basic' politeness.

And second, I have the same officers, when they are addressing me while they are in the line of duty, call me 'ma'am' and when with guys, call them 'sir.' (And it hasnt been 'age-dependent'....happened in my 20s too)


Not directed at anyone, but maybe it has to do with self-esteem when people so easily question the respect attached to simple greetings.

 

[Tinker]

Deanimator,

One more thing...I was also raised to respect "officers of the law". As a child I saw cops as some kind of superior beings. Now that I'm a middle aged man and have known several "officers" during the course of life that view has faded. As a matter of fact I can say that I don't care for half the cops I've known. Two come to mind that in my eyes should be in the jail. Still, if a man has a badge and is doing his job I will still refer to him as "officer".

 

[Diggers]

That seems to be putting a lot of weight on the word sir.

I see it as a polite respectful way to interact with people, younger or older then myself. That’s all.

However polite is what counts and it does not hinge on calling someone sir.

Deanimator if I pulled you over I would not care at all if you didn't call me sir as long as you were polite, just so you know. I would, however, call you sir as I do with everyone in that setting even the ones who are calling me a**hole.

 

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

I show them the same respect they show me. Although I rarely address them as sir or ma'am, I do address them as officer. Once they step out of bounds and give me their "opinion" I feel free to return mine. I respect the job they do, to enforce the laws. Their opinions about which ones are "wrong" is irrelevant to me, especially when they are on the wrong side of history.

I have several friends that are LEO's, they are just people like everyone else, doing a tough job, and like every other work place, you get good ones and bad ones. I find a curious connection with the anti 2A leo's being the same ones that have that superiority complex though.

 

[Lincoln7]

Is VA a must inform state? If not just give the guy your driver's license.

Yes, it's a must inform state. I got a talking to because I didn't inform a cop immediately. I didn't think I had to tell him because I wasn't carrying. If you don't tell them, they will find out when they look up your name using your driver's license. That's when I learned that...

 

[Deanimator]

If you refer to everyone as "sir" or "ma'am", then there is no caste system.

I of course don't.

I'd call a customer "sir", if appropriate.

I'd call somebody substantially older than myself "sir".

If I knew you had earned a CMH, and you weren't a personal friend, I'd call you "sir", or whatever your appropriate enlisted rank is.

I'm not calling a twenty two year old kid "sir" just because he's wearing a badge, especially if he's misbehaving or showing incompetence at his job. He gets called "officer", "leading aircraftsman" or whatever his real title is.

 

[Deanimator]

Still, if a man has a badge and is doing his job I will still refer to him as "officer".

And I have said that I would do precisely the same thing.

 

[Deanimator]

Yes, it's a must inform state.

NO, it's NOT

I got a talking to because I didn't inform a cop immediately.

You got an IGNORANT (or dishonest) "talking to":

**********************************************************
The Virginia Citizens Defense League reports three Fairfax County, VA police officers are involved in a false arrest of a North Carolina man.
**********************************************************

We haven't had any issues with the Fairfax County police in quite a while now. I have found them to be one of the best run police agencies in Virginia, stated Philip Van Cleave.

However, three officers tarnished that image last week when they unlawfully arrested a North Carolina resident who was legally carrying a handgun and had a North Carolina CHP.

Hold on tight - this is a weird story.

The gun owner was pulled over for running through a red light, a charge which the gun owner disputes.

The gun owner, believing that he had to disclose he was lawfully armed as they do in North Carolina, dutifully told the officer he had a NC CHP and was indeed armed.

The officer seemed to ignore the statement, but very shortly two more patrol units pulled up. The next thing the gun owner knew he is in a "felony stop" mode. He was asked to walk backwards towards the officers, who then disarmed and handcuffed him.

While trying to unloaded his gun, THEY DROPPED IT ONTO THE ROAD!

The two officers and a SERGEANT then proceeded to tell him that he was under arrested for:

1. Having hollow point bullets, which they claimed were illegal in Virginia (!)
2. Taking a loaded gun across the state line, which the gun owner was told was a FELONY (!)
3. Having a concealed gun that the police said he couldn't have since he was from North Carolina (!!)

His car and gun were impounded and he was taken off to a magistrate.

The magistrate looked at the charges and told the police officers that they had just made a false arrest.

The officers pointed out the possession of hollow point bullets. The magistrate asked, "are they teflon coated?"

"No," replied on of the officers.

"Then they are legal."

Trying to find something that would stick and justify the false arrest, one of the officers said, "We couldn't verify that his North Carolina permit is valid."

The magistrate looked at the permit, noticed the phone number on the back where one can call to verify the permit, called the number, and within a few minutes found out the permit was indeed valid.

The gun owner was ordered to be released.

After being released from custody, the gun owner was given a hard time by another officer about getting his gun back, but he did finally get it back.

If all of that isn't bad enough, the arresting officer went ahead and gave the gun owner a ticket for the alleged offense of running a red light!

In essence, with that brilliant move, the officer was practically BEGGING the gun owner to PLEASE sue Fairfax Count for the false arrest!

I have already talked to my high-level contact with the Fairfax County PD about this entire situation and the gun owner has filed a formal complaint.

In the past, Fairfax County PD has been very good when such internal investigations are required. Now we will wait and see what happens.

What is clear is that Fairfax County PD needs to educate its officers on:

1. Possession of hollow point bullets
2. Reciprocity laws
3. Lawful carriage of firearms across state lines
4. Safe gun handling (a few years ago unsafe gun handling by an officer cause a gun to discharge, killing an unarmed, handcuffed man)





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***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org

 

[FRJ]

I have had men and women object to my using the terms "sir" and "mam" and that's their problem. I was too well trained in both my home by my parents and relatives and later by the military that these were courteous titles not something derogeratory. I guess I could address them as dickhead and bitch but I doubt that would get me anything I really wanted. FRJ

 

[Deanimator]

Deanimator if I pulled you over I would not care at all if you didn't call me sir as long as you were polite, just so you know.

As I said previously, I'm FORMALLY polite when dealing with the police. Not rude, not friendly, FORMALLY polite. You shouldn't have any problem with that. Any cop who does, probably has deeper issues.

 

[Doggy Daddy]

I'm not calling a twenty two year old kid "sir" just because he's wearing a badge, especially if he's misbehaving or showing incompetence at his job. He gets called "officer", "leading aircraftsman" or whatever his real title is.

And see, to me that sounds more like a caste system than just calling everyone "sir" or "ma'am" no matter what. You're tying it to a percieved value. I'm not.

DD