Has this happened to you

[cassandrasdaddy]

the best thing about getting over all my posturing and fronting was never having to feel that short again. course as i get older the cops call me sir. come to think of it they called me that when i was a snot nosed kid so long as i was polite. when the punk kid showed his tail they gave back what i gave them. funny how that works. funnier too is that in my life i've had sadly hundreds of police interactions when i was a drunk and can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times i was spoken to impolitely. more remarkable since i did a lot of my knee walking in pg county maryland, a place not famous for polite cops. and yet some other poor souls seem to have so many bad experiences while leading a lawful life. can't decide for sure if i was just real lucky and they had bad luck or if maybe it had to do with some folks manners. but if i had to guess....

 

[Deanimator]

funnier too is that in my life i've had sadly hundreds of police interactions

I've had very few police interactions. But then I don't WANT any.

When you have an official encounter with the police, it's because something BAD happened.

1. You committed a crime.
2. Somebody committed a crime against you.
3. You saw somebody commit a crime.
4. The cop commits a crime against you.

I've never been a drunk. I don't want to be a drunk or do the things that drunks do. And one of the things they frequently do is have contacts with the police.

When you have a lot of contacts with the police, I guess it pays to suck up a little.

 

[jbkebert]

The company commander walks out to the motor pool. Private do you have change for a $20.00. Sure replies the young private and reaches for his wallet. Well the CO just about comes un-glued. Private I am a commissioned officer and yuo will address me as sir. Now lets try this again. Private do you have change for a $20.00 SIR NO SIR.

Not really related but most of this thread is about yes sir or no sir.

I for the most past refer to everyone as sir or ma'am. I don't care is they are 3 years old or a 100. Just a polite thing to do

 

[FarmGirl]

Wow, a lot of hostility going on in this thread.

My two cents about the Original Poster's experiences:

LEO's vary widely even within departments as to their stance on, well, everything. They're people, and people make up their own minds.

That being said, had I had that interaction I would have concluded it politely, gotten his name and information, and called his superiors. They tend to frown on actions that garner legitimate complaints. Still, be polite. A simple "I felt that it was unnecessary and insulting, and I would like you to be aware of the officer's actions" is sufficient and will probably get more productive attention than getting all wound up.

To everyone else arguing over sir or ma'am (yes, it's ma'am a contraction of madam and no I don't know why that bugs me) it is definitely a cultural thing. Some folks do and some folks don't and not much is going to change that.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

if they are under 5 i call girl "miss (insert name here) " or young lady. boys get young man or i use their first name if i know them and their parents. for a while there i was making the rounds building decks and such for a string of flag rank officers in fairfax and prince william county and strangely enough they called me sir as i did them but none of them were the kinda officers that had a stick up em. thankfully. not all officers do but the stuck ones are a pain.

 

[Bovice]

the cop gave you lip about carrying a gun? KICK HIS ASS, SEABASS!

totally kidding. Don't take it so personally. There's nothing he can do about you carrying a gun lawfully. He can bitch and moan to you all he wants, but it doesn't change your rights. Arguing back and being a smart ass to a police officer isn't going to help you. Sticks and stones, my friends...

 

[LibShooter]

The 1st Amendment doesn't give me ANY right to FORCIBLY inflict my opinions on you. I cannot barge into your home and FORCE you to listen to my opinions. I cannot FORCIBLY detain you in the street for the same purpose. The 1st Amendment IN NO WAY protects any such behavior. Nor does it protect any imaginary power of police to detain you for what is CLEARLY not a law enforcement purpose.

You are right, all these are clearly wrong and illegal. They are also clearly not what happened according to the original post:

Few minutes later he comes back and hands me my stuff back and sais, guns are very dangerouse and are used in most of the crime, and if we had more laws to prevent people from owning guns we would be safer comunitty. At this point I was like why did he not just give me a ticket and saved the preaching for someone with a different bumber sticker. So I ask him if I can ask him a aquestion and he sais sure, so I ask him on your sig do you know what kind of trigger mechanizam you have, and he looked me like I was out of my mind, so i let him have it and told him do not carry something you have no idea how it works. He just walked away.

That's a conversation. A police officer spouting his political opinions at an otherwise legal traffic stop may be against department policy, probably bad public relations and certainly a very bad idea... but no reason to get one's ire up. If you're always looking for slights and reasons to get mad, you can usually find them.

So, is it ok for a cop who's detained a Black person to opine to that person who cannot lawfully leave, that the wrong side won the Civil War ...

O.K.? No. It would probably result in the officer's dismissal. Anyone with judgement that poor would most likely make for a bad cop. However, I still believe he has the right to his opinions, and if he's willing to put his job on the line, so be it.

The Civil War and Holocaust conversations are a little different than the gun rights conversations. The latter is in context with the situation. Also, the officer invited the gun owner/driver to offer a thoughtful rebuttal. Instead he chose a different kind of response. Too bad.

 

[Deanimator]

The Civil War and Holocaust conversations are a little different than the gun rights conversations. The latter is in context with the situation. Also, the officer invited the gun owner/driver to offer a thoughtful rebuttal. Instead he chose a different kind of response. Too bad.

If I'm being detained, I'm not interested in his opinions, PERIOD.

I'm actually not interested in his opinions regardless, but if I'm not being detained, I'll just turn my back on him and walk away.

If he can use a detention as a pretext to preach on gun control, there's no reason why he can't do it to deny the Holocaust or advocate White supremacy. I'm not having ANY of it.

Ohio's a one party consent state for audio recording. Whenever I'm carrying a firearm, I'm also carrying a voice recorder. I'll make sure his one man show gets plenty of exposure, including the next city council meeting and the internet.

If I'm not free to leave and I'm being lectured at figurative gunpoint, I'll make sure he never wants to do that again.

 

[Brian Dale]

Ohio's a one party consent state for audio recording. Whenever I'm carrying a firearm, I'm also carrying a voice recorder. I'll make sure his one man show gets plenty of exposure, including the next city council meeting and the internet.

self: {makes a note to check the law in my own state on this, too}

 

[Shadow Man]

If I somehow find my way back into uniform and you have oakleaves, eagles, or stars on your uniform, I'll call you "sir". Other than that, there's little chance I'm going to call you "sir". If you're a cop who's not a reservist or guardsman 0-4 or above, I'm NEVER going to call you "sir".

Emphasis added.

Well, Captain, that is an extremely interesting attitude, in my experience, rarely seen outside of ring-knockers. Now, if an officer ever called me "sir" while I was in uniform, I would have asked him if he had lost his mind, respectfully, of course. I honestly don't think I have adopted the "Holier-than-thou" attitude since I got out of high school...
No matter how little I want to deal with Law Enforcement, or with haughty officer-types who seem to think they are the end-all be-all, being respectful never hurts. Enjoy the rest of your day, Captain.

 

[DammitBoy]

Fawning, servile obsequiousness isn't common sense. It's just fawning, servile obsequiousness.

If you consider being polite to be fawning and acting servile - you've got issues.

 

[purebred]

. So I ask him if I can ask him a aquestion and he sais sure, so I ask him on your sig do you know what kind of trigger mechanizam you have, and he looked me like I was out of my mind, so i let him have it and told him do not carry something you have no idea how it works. He just walked away.

Ha Ha Ha Ha that's a good one!

 

[Deanimator]

f you consider being polite to be fawning and acting servile

That's not being polite. It's being servile.

 

[wojownik]

Sanerkeki - no it has not happened to me yet, but it's probably just a matter of time. Sorry to hear you got hassled in Arlington, but that's not that surprising (at least to me). Be mindful around the Reston substation in FFX as well - from what I've observed, some of the LEOs are not too cool on CHP either (I got hassled a bit with an empty holster once, but that's a tale for a different day). On the other hand, I got pulled over in FFX about 18 months ago, and I didn't present my CHP with my ID, and he didn't ask whether I was carrying (CHP holders do pop up in the VA police database when a DL license is run, so he knew I might have been carrying).

Mags - VA is not a "must inform" state. But I'm still trying to figure out what to do here. I was with a friend who got pulled over and presented his CHP. The officer handed back the CHP and curtly said "I don't need that". Others say you should present the CHP as a matter of courtesy.

There are apparently a number of individual LEOs in the northern VA area (some, but definitely not all) who don't quite appreciate the CHP, or RKBA in general for that matter. vcdl.org is a good place to do some reading. I don't want to generalize, though, I know some FFX County and VA State officers who are very, very cool about CHP and even open carry. Of course the RKBA-friendly officers I have chatted with have frequently been at gun stores or shops - kind of a biased sample.. .

My one encounter with the Loudoun County sheriffs was also pretty good. I was involved in a traffic accident some months back near Leesburg (got hit with my kids in the car, and the offender, ). While talking with deputy, he noticed I was carrying (I guess I was printing pretty badly) - he asked if I had a permit - I said yes - he nodded and just said "yep, gotta protect the family". +100 for that deputy.

 

[Ermalov]

If you consider being polite to be fawning and acting servile - you've got issues.

In Georgia, addressing someone as sir or ma'am is polite.

In Ohio or Minnesota, it's fawning and acting servile.

Neither I nor my co workers address (or are expected to address) our manager, our manager's manager, or anyone else in the company as sir or ma'am, yet our conduct is polite and professional.

As a child neither I nor my classmates addressed (or were expected to address) our teachers as sir or ma'am. And our teachers did not address our parents as such, either. All this while we were expected to be polite and respectful.

Neither I nor my parents or even grandparents address our pastor as sir. Yet we're considered polite members of the congregation even by the little old blue haired ladies.

To address a police officer in higher terms of respect than you address your manager or your pastor is being obsequious, fawning, and servile. There are areas of the country where honorifics like sir and ma'am are not in common use, yet people manage to be polite and respectful. (Ever heard of Minnesota nice?) In those areas, addressing a police officer as sir or ma'am _does_ make you feel as if you are making yourself socially inferior to the officer and it is being obsequious. It's the kind of thing a child who got caught throwing rocks on the playground does to get out of being punished.

 

[Davek1977]

In regards to the issue of addressing officers, or anyone, as sir. I operate on the assumption everyone is deserving of respect, young or old, male or female, etc, until they have demonstrated in some way they DO NOT deserve my respect, not vice versa as a certain someone seems to have adopted...that no one is worthy of being called "sir" unless they have proven they've somehow (in the eyes of the poster) "earned" that right. I always call males "sir" and women "ma'am"in the abscence of knowing their name. It was what I was taught to do, and I've never felt asahmed of being polite towards people, nor have I offended anyone else by my use of such words.. I don't use age as a determination of how much respect I should give someone (and it seems the only people who do are...ummm...old....go figure) . I've met 70 yr olds that demand or deserve no more respect than some 15 yr olds. At 32, I'm as apt to call a 20 yr "sir" as I am a 60 yr old. Their age doesn't determine how I talk to them, nor,necessarily, does their position. I respect people until they give me a reason not to. I don't believe I'm elevating anyone's status above mine by using the word "sir" and quite frankly, think this issue is MUCH ado about absolutely NOTHING. I'll continue to err on the side of respect, and if somone feels that calling someone "sir" means they are elevating that person's status beyond their own.....well, I think that says more about the person and their own need for validation than anything else, IMO.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

I think that says more about the person and their own need for validation than anything else, IMO.



qft in more than just your opinion sir

 

[Hacker15E]

If he can prove to me he's got a CMH, I'll call him "sir". He's earned it.

If I knew you had earned a CMH, and you weren't a personal friend, I'd call you "sir", or whatever your appropriate enlisted rank is.

So, in all seriousness -- the only people who have earned your respect and deserve to be called 'sir' are Medal of Honor awardees? (It's not the 'CMH', by the way, nor is it 'earned' -- surprising, considering how hung up on words you seem to be.)

Guess you have a pretty tough time finding anyone you respect in life, eh?

Hard to believe that you find use of the term 'sir' as indicative of you being servile in some way to the person you are speaking it to.

 

[ClayInTX]

This thread has now become a ‘tis, ‘taint, ‘’tis, ‘taint commentary.

Sir:
The word “Sir” is used in four ways (knighthood excepted):
1. As an honorary salutation title, either by law (i.e.; military) or for a deserving person who has earned the honor (i.e.; Einstein).
2. As a salutation for someone you know and respect enough to do so.
3. As a conversational habit.
4. As an attempt to “toady up” to someone who has an advantage.

Those of us who have voiced our objections to its use in the situation depicted by sanerkeki are referencing Case #4. I believe all of us who have objected to Case #4 have used “Sir” in the other three examples.

Harassing opinion directed at a captive audience.
Reference the comment by JamisJockey
“Drive off from the traffic stop during the lecture. See what happens.”

Law Enforcement Attitude
Many LEOs can avoid being changed by their position in society, others cannot. I once had business dealings with a young LEO working for the state. The reason for it was him wanting to make a living in some other way. He explained it thusly (he was from a small town and for most of his life knew his fellow officers):

“I didn’t realize the effect being a law officer had on your personality. I went to school with these guys and they weren’t like that then. I don’t want to become like that. You get in a position where you have to tell some people what to do and the first thing you know you think you should tell everyone what to do. Just the other day I realized I had done something I hated to see the others do and that’s when I knew I had to get out. I never want to be that kind of person.”

Actually he would have been a keeper because he then realized he had to guard his emotional development. Many LEOs realize this and do guard their emotional development; others fall in love with the gun and badge and become little Nazis.

 

[sheepdog]

For some of us...

..."the High Road" has meaning other than a forum...and it's no skin off my butt to be the only one who shows a person, be it the man who's sweeping and holds the door for me, or an officer, or a bum on the street, common respect and appreciation for their life...I've seen shoulders square that were slumped...frowns turn to smiles...everyone wants respect...and last time I checked it was free..

 

[Deanimator]

Guess you have a pretty tough time finding anyone you respect in life, eh?

I've called people I don't respect "sir" because the UCMJ said I had to.

I've not called people I respect "sir" because it's not the way I talk, nor indeed that of anyone I know.

When it comes down to it, it seems that most people who are adamant about calling cops "sir" are looking to get something out of it.

 

[Deanimator]

..."the High Road" has meaning other than a forum...and it's no skin off my butt to be the only one who shows a person, be it the man who's sweeping and holds the door for me, or an officer, or a bum on the street, common respect and appreciation for their life...I've seen shoulders square that were slumped...frowns turn to smiles...everyone wants respect...and last time I checked it was free..

I'm polite to service workers, more polite than most. I tip for good service where appropriate. I don't call ANY of them "sir". Of course anybody can say they do anything on the internet, and I'd bet money that VERY few people here call the guy at McDonalds "sir", because they can't get anything out of it. He can't keep you from getting a speeding ticket, or forget that you were weaving. On another forum there's a heated discussion of FOP "courtesy" cards. Like I said, some people just don't feel like they're alive unless they think they're getting away with something. I spent three years trying to get one thrown in jail for check kiting, embezzlement and check forgery. I'll bet he's "getting away with" things right now. I'll bet when the cops came to get him for kicking in the office door to steal evidence, he called them "sir"... just like he did when he was arrested (and sent to prison for) intentionally selling defective surgical gloves.

 

[Bluenote]

I've called people I don't respect "sir" because the UCMJ said I had to.

I've not called people I respect "sir" because it's not the way I talk, nor indeed that of anyone I know.

When it comes down to it, it seems that most people who are adamant about calling cops "sir" are looking to get something out of it.
*****************


HHmmmm , well there 'Dude' ,it seems like you make a great many blanket postulations about folks you don't know with very little evidence to back 'em up. That attitude shows much less respect for your fellow man than you seem to be demanding shown to you. It's a two way street remember?

 

[sheepdog]

Leaving cops and other ...

...authority figures out of it, I'll bet if folks'd try for a week using Sir and Ma'am with everyone they meet...and marking down the response...there'd be a heckuva lot more marks on the pleasant response side than the unpleasant response side... it works for a lot of us dumb Redneck Crackers down here...(Sir)

 

[Art Eatman]

Well, Sirs & Ma'ams, since Sir & Ma'am has zilch to do with the opening post, guess what?