Heckler heard round the world: Wenyi Wang could get 6-month jail term

[Art Eatman]

Funny. In the early 1950s, the US and China were in a shooting war. Around 1970, Nixon opened things up and albeit slowly, trade began. By the 1990s, China had become a major buyer of products from Gucci, Rolex and Mercedes Benz, and Coca Cola started opening up bottling plants there.

I'd say that what Bush is trying with Hu is just more steps along a slow path. Smart-mouth all you want, but open economic competition beats the heck out of freezing and dying at Chosin Reservoir. I'd say we've made more than just a wee tad of progress.

I despise how the Chinese leadership treats its people. So? They're alone in that behavior? We should quit buying oil from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria or Venezuela? And, after all, the USSR was not a Nice Place, but we worked our tails off to get a peaceful change, there.

I'm not into Hu's mind about this deal, insofar as how it will affect the treatment of the next visit by a U.S. trade delegation, how it will affect both our present and future investments in China. But anything that can mess up relations between two mutually-dependent nations--one of which is dictatorial--is not a Good Thing.

This gal picked the wrong time and place. Had it been done in front of the Chinese embassy, with numerous supporters and TV cameras, it would have been highly thought of by many--and should be. And Hu would have gotten the message without the issue of relations with our president.

Art

 

[longeyes]

If all the high-minded folks who say we should stop doing business with China and stop prostituting ourselves for China, and how despicable it is to support the brutal tyrannical Chinese regime... how many of you are personally refusing to do business with China? Are you personally foregoing the discount prices you get from buying Chinese goods in favor of more expensive goods from other countries? Start looking at everything you buy - especially when you see something that seems like a great bargain - like as not, it's made in China. "America doing business with China" isn't just the president or the large corporations - the driver of business with China is the millions of American citizens who buy Chinese stuff because it's cheaper.

Give me a real choice and I will.

The age-old question: Do you fight 'em or do you trade with 'em? Well, one thiing you do not do with 'em is trade with them according to their rules and with full encouragement of your own weaknesses. Let's be "machiavellian" here for a minute. Do you trade with a country that steals your intellectual property with impunity, that dumps goods on the market, that inserts itself, illegally, into your political campaigns, that offers your own companies a devil's bargain of don't trade with us unless you help us suppress dissent? And, perhaps not least, do you trade with a nation while you are running up huge and consistent trade deficits that will eventually maim your own economy just to placate your own "consumers" at home? I say NO, for very pragmatic, not just "idealistic" reasons.

Yes, trade is war by other means, and we have to ask ourselves who is winning. What, in the long run, if that's the perspective we should be taking, do I gain by buying my iBook Made in China for $500 less? What really?

I have said in many posts that we are being undone by our own pursuit of happiness and what has become not the furthering but the idolatry of the Consumer. This is not high-minded moralizing, just an observation about where in the end all of this is going to take us in terms of our shrinking political liberties.

 

[Thin Black Line]

China owns about a $trillion worth of US paper. I really doubt there would be any boycott of Chinese goods, here, so they'll add another $200 million this year.

I think they've moved into being our largest single creditor. Isn't it ironic
how we buy their goods and thereby willingly put chains on ourselves?

An analogy: You'd like for your banker to not foreclose on you. He comes to your house to discuss it. Your little sister comes in and calls him an SOB. IMO, that's not the way you make Brownie points.

We have a moral little sister who doesn't like the banker abusing his
own kids at his house. Yes, how dare she bring that up in public!
Easier to not say anything and ignore it. Kind of funny how we pick and
choose which of our neighbors to complain about when it serves our
interests? The word "mammon" comes to mind. (M6:24)

I wish the banker was adopting OUR ways of government rather than the
other way around!

[/quote]Why did Bush feel the need to parade around in public with the leader of a nation that leads the world in civil rights abuses? He was just asking for trouble.[/quote]

Didn't ya love the Army band dressed in Revolutionary War uniforms
on the South lawn?

Do I have to spell it out for you? Well, I will. Our leadership is prostituting this nation for lucre. There are several prominent "johns" in the clientele: China, Saudi Arabia, Mexico... You fill in the rest of the list, I'm tired...and I'm disgusted.

Ditto

It can be difficult to admit the emperor is naked.

I have medication for that --a strong dose of reality through a deployment in
Iraq. Takes the squawk right out of the chickenhawks and more of a
focus on keeping the nest clean and the chicks fed.

 

[seeker_two]

Maybe, in the spirit of cooperation and support for the Bush administration, President Hu can offer Bush some ideas on how to manage the media and political oppositon and have the high approval ratings of all Chinese gov't officials....

 

[JohnBT]

At last, I've seen the light.

We stop all trade with China and ignore them. Maybe they'll go away.

That'll work, right?

John

 

[longeyes]

At last, I've seen the light.

We stop all trade with China and ignore them. Maybe they'll go away.

That'll work, right?

The question isn't whether THEY will "go away" but whether WE will. We are slowly but surely evaporating as a Republic as we "trade" ourselves into oblivion--or haven't you noticed? What exactly are we TRADING here? Our Republic for cheap consumer goods most of us don't need or don't need at that price?

It is analogous to our illegal alien problem. There is noble and there is cheap--you decide.

 

[roo_ster]

Good on the Gal!

I wish the little chinese lady with the big mouth all the best. She said what needs to be said and said it in the most effective venue possible.

Saying what needs to be said on FOXCNNABCNBC at 9PM in front of guys with important hair has much less effect than saying so to the face-man for tyranny, where millions can see the dirty SOB squirm.

I say, shame and embarass the heck out of 'em at every opportunity. Let them know they are not welcome in polite, civilized company. Our prez can shuffle his feet, demur, and make some half-comprehensible comment about folks in America saying what they wish.

Treat trash like trash.

I am pretty much a free-trader when it comes to goods, though I subordinate my free-trade principles when it comes to an existential question about the USA. Trading with those tyrants saves us a few bucks, but it allows the Chicoms to build up thier military. All those cheap Chinese goods we buy are funding Chicom nukes and subs.

 

[longeyes]

Wang called out The Ogre and spoke truth.

Wouldn't it be great if we had Americans telling Bush the truth and nothing but the truth about matters like illegal immigration--right to his face? Bush has no answers to the tough questions and really believes he doesn't have to have any but the same tired mantra of "compassion." He insults our intelligence and our honor every time he postures in public.

I'm afraid Bush and Hu have all too much in common.

 

[odysseus]

Talking about trade imbalances and economic issues with China is thread drift to this conversation. I have commented on this on other threads on my position in this and do not take a protectionist stand on China at this time.

The issue we are talking about is does Wenyi Wang's criminal charge here in the US warranted? Threatening and imtimidating someone because they say "Your time is running out"? How often do we hear that said a thousand times here in the USA levied at our government officials, even in media? Ever see anyone charged of this?

No. Why? Because it is free-speech. The context of what she meant is too ambiguious because what she meant was the Communists party's time of brutal control. There was no threat to life or limb here. This is a purely political charge and I for one will say it again, the administration has lost the moral high ground on this incident letting this charge go through. There are other lighter charges that could be levied, but this is silly. I actually hope it goes to court and gets nullified.

 

[longeyes]

I don't see it as a threat either. It was a prediction--or maybe wishful thinking.

The irony of trying her for a "death threat" when the man she's allegedly threatened has no doubt actually ordered deaths is dark indeed.

 

[riverdog]

This gal picked the wrong time and place. Had it been done in front of the Chinese embassy, with numerous supporters and TV cameras, it would have been highly thought of by many--and should be. And Hu would have gotten the message without the issue of relations with our president.

She wanted to bring the President in on it. A Chinese woman protesting in front of the Chinese embassy is hardly newsworthy. A Chinese woman embarrassing Bush and Hu over Fulan Gong in front of the entire press corps is newsworthy. She made her point. Will there be a trial or do we go straight to sentencing?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Can add nothing better

There were two brave people there on that day in China.
The man who stood in front of the tanks, and
the driver of the lead tank who refused to run over him.

We need more of both, here, right now.

 

[c_yeager]

That is very easily interpreted as a death threat--especially when coming from a member of a terrorist organization. (Falun Gong used nerve gas on a large number of civilians in a Tokyo Subway.)

Dude, where did you get the idea that Falun Gong is a terrorist organization? They had *NOTHING* to do with the Sarin gas attack. The closest they have come to a terrorist act is monks lighting THEMSELVES on fire in protest. Seriously, the world is complicated enough without misinformation like this.

 

[gunsmith]

What does HU rhyme with?

This aint China, if you stand up in public
you open yourself to hecklers.

China is winning the trade war, I have my doubts
that our childrens children will even know
that once, their grandparents had the right
to KABA, they won't know what free speech
and religion is.

the poor little dictator had his itty bitty feelings hurt

as far as buying oil, we need to drill and process our own.
we are far to kissy face with the Saud royals.
to put it bluntly, they suck.

I think we will see the blue helmet of the UN patrolling
our neighborhoods in our lifetime.

load up on guns and ammo you will need them

 

[gc70]

The context of what she meant is too ambiguious because what she meant was the Communists party's time of brutal control.

Then she has nothing to worry about when a jury determines whether she is guilty or innocent of the charges.

This is a purely political charge and I for one will say it again, the administration has lost the moral high ground on this incident letting this charge go through.

So the administration should meddle in the functions of the judicial system whenever they think it morally correct to do so?

 

[odysseus]

Then she has nothing to worry about when a jury determines whether she is guilty or innocent of the charges.

You got that right. It's a nonsense charge.

So the administration should meddle in the functions of the judicial system whenever they think it morally correct to do so?

No they shouldn't. Funny, as if they didn't here or can't. As if politics in D.C. hasn't before. O.K.

 

[seeker_two]

This is a purely political charge and I for one will say it again, the administration has lost the moral high ground on this incident letting this charge go through.

So the administration should meddle in the functions of the judicial system whenever they think it morally correct to do so?

Isn't it ironic that the D.C. DA is pondering whether to prosecute a sitting Congress-critter for assaulting a federal security officer but doesn't seem to hesitate in throwing the book at one of the "little people"...

Too bad I'll never meet Chairman Hu. I'm sure I'd have something to say, too...

 

[The_Antibubba]

Does anyone know the address...

to send a donation to her defense fund?

 

[LAR-15]

So where is the proof Bush personally ordered her charged?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

We should quit buying oil from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria or Venezuela?

Are you sure we import Iranian oil?

I can't find a source that says we do.

 

[Art Eatman]

LG, the major oil guys buy from here, there and yonder. As necessary, they sell to each other. I know of no way of telling exactly what company is supplying any refinery or my local station.

About the best you can do is learn the type of crude from different sources and whether it's used for petro-chemical instead of transportation fuel. Sulfur content, etc. That might help differentiate among countries of origin.

Either the plastic of your cell phone or computer, or the gas in your car, could be from Iran or Mexico. I dunno. Given the new contract between Iran and China, it's likely that we'll be buying a lot of Iran-oil plastic stuff.

Art

 

[Master Shake]

china girl

Long Eyes see very far

 

[LeoC]

...we need more frequent political meetings between Chinese President Hu Jintao and our president and we need more Wenyi Wang's confronting Chinese leaders about their abuses... freedom is a thing of beauty the majority of Chinese have never witnessed... bring it on...

As a US Citizen living in Beijing who heard about the Wenyi Wang thing via English net news (and THR), I can assure all of you that her heckling had absolutely zero effect in Mainland China. Because nobody in China KNOWS IT HAPPENED. They already showed stories of Hu's visit with no mention of anything negative. America welcomed his visit with open arms, he dined with Bill Gates, had a great time, bla bla...

If anything, the visit has actually improved the Chinese people's view of the US. Hu Jintao has no worries of losing face in China, and neither does Bush (er.. in China, that is). The government-controlled media make sure of that. I believe that the Chinese government is truly interested in improving US-China relations, otherwise they would have showed the heckler and put a spin on it to make the US look bad for allowing it to happen. I am also quite sure that the desire for improved relations is economically-motivated.

Any ideas of free speech or democracy in the PRC are a long way off. The people here truly believe that their government knows what's best and acts to protect their morality for the benefit of everybody's happiness. They believe that Falun Gong is a dangerous cult that encourages sloth and destroys families. Chances of the truth about Falun Gong being seen on any national level are extremely slim to non-existing. The Chinese government has spent and is still spending a lot of time, energy, and money creating the demonized image of Falun Gong that they have, and it would be extremely embarassing to say the least for the State Media to reveal the truth.

Edited to add:
The fact that the Wenyi Wang thing will have no impact on Mainland China at all tells me that the charges against Wang are pure political posturing, meant for Hu Jintao to see. In other words, it's the US kissing China's arse

Instead of "We regret it happened, but this is America and we have the right of free speech protected by our Constitution" we get "We regret it happened, and to show how much we regret it we're going to charge this reckless cultist with several crimes for opening her mouth where and when she wasn't supposed to"

 

[RealGun]

Instead of "We regret it happened, but this is America and we have the right of free speech protected by our Constitution" we get "We regret it happened, and to show how much we regret it we're going to charge this reckless cultist with several crimes for opening her mouth where and when she wasn't supposed to"

Forget free speech. The event was not open to the public. This country and its leaders are entitled to control their message in foreign relations. This woman will never see the White House lawn again. Her employer did not support her behavior, but I would expect that their being considered legitimate press, certainly for White House and Capital Hill press pass purposes, is in question.

 

[roo_ster]

RG:

If we don't want unruly citizens speaking truth to tyranny, keep the Hus of the world inside & away from said citizens.

If they bring tyrants out into the light of public glare, they risk having uppity citizens speak their minds about the tyrants. Even on governemnt owned & taxpayer-supported lawns.

Bill Gates may give the Hus of the world auditory fellatio, but the rest of us uppity citizens aren't required to toe the line...especially when WE are paying the bills to keep the lawn maintained and for the soapbox Hu is speaking from.