Help a Novice: Problems w/45acp reloads

[ctiger]

I am a new handloader and need some help. I am using the following for 45 acp reloads:

230 gr LRN bullets
4.4 gr IMR 700X powder
1x fired brass
Winchester Large Pistol Primers

Out of 50 rounds fired I experienced 6 failures.

1 Stovepipe
2 FTFs
3 Misfires (lightly dented primer did not fire. Fired on second attempt)

What are some things I can look for that may have caused these problems and how can I fix them?

Thanks.

 

[PotatoJudge]

So obviously there could be something wrong with the gun, but here are some answers to the ammo problems.

Misfires: primers not fully seated (common), hard/bad primers (rare)
Stovepipe/FTF: Check OAL and taper crimp measurements. Make sure the shoulder is not crimped into the lead bullet (the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth).

 

[243winxb]

1&2.Stovepipe and failure to feed (FTF) can be a magazine problem . .The round is riding to high in the magazine?? COL might be to long or to short. 3.The misfires could be primer seated to deep?? OOPs not on a 1911, no stop on the firing pin. Slow firing pin,spray with wd40, Or over crimping? Was there powder in the misfires and the correct amount? 700x might give a flow problem is some measures, but not common to 700x. 4.4gr/IMR700X should work well. Many reasons, i am sure there will be more suggestions.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

What kind of press and equipment are you reloading with--single stage, turret, progressive?

As the others have noted, misfires are most often because of either corrupted primers (oil or contaminants) or improperly seated primers.

Failure to Feed is most often either excessive overall length (OAL) or improper sizing/crimping--and often times, a combination of both. A $20 pair of calipers from Cabellas and a $15 Lee FCD will fix your FTF problems.

Stovepipes can be from a number of things ranging from not enough pressure (which can result from improper crimp, improper seating depth of bullet, too light of a powder charge) to shooting technique to poundage of springs in the slide of the weapon--and often times, a combination of all three.

Jeff

 

[Steve C]

Missfire = improperly seated primers or to be more precise, failure to seat the primer to the bottom of the primer pocket. The first hit by the firing pin will usually seat them to the bottom of the pocket and the second hit will set them off. You should be able to feel the primer bottom out in the pocket as you operate the presses lever when the primer is properly seated.

FTF's - need some better description, IE if the round simply remains in the magazine, the round jams on the feed ramp, the round hangs up on the barrel hood are some of the possibilities.

Stovepipe is likely a light load not giving the slide enough speed to kick out the case jproperly or something else slowing the slide speed like the shooters thumb or a dirty gun.

 

[evan price]

4.4 of 700-X is a bit light. The book max is 4.7 grains and that only gives you 775 FPS @ 17.7K CUP. Your load is probably a bit soft, especially if you have a factory recoil spring.

If that's the powder you've got, OK, but there are better choices than 700-X for .45 ACP.

Plus, the primers not seated as above cause FTF's.

 

[ctiger]

Thanks for the replies. I am using a single stage press.

I will invest in calipers from Cabellas and a Lee FCD.
I will make sure that my primers are fully seated.
On the FTF's the bullets were jamming on the feed ramp.

So after I use up my 700X what powder should I get for my 45 loads?

 

[rcmodel]

Your 230 grain RN bullet is most likely very similiar to, or the same profile as a GI 230 FMJ bullet.

Proper seating depth should be 1.272" OAL, and if that won't feed you have a gun problem.

There is no need to use a Lee FCD if your seating / taper crimp die is adjusted properly to remove all the case mouth bell.

Outside case mouth diameter should measure .472" - .473" if you are getting the correct amount of taper crimp with your seating die.

The Lee FCD is fine, but it is very possible to over-crimp with them and actually ruin the bullet by squeezing it down until it becomes under-size for the bore.

That can lead to bore leading & accuracy problems you wouldn't otherwise have to deal with.

My suggestion would be to start out by getting the calipers, and go from there. Good measurments will go far in finding & correcting problems with loads not feeding properly.

There are any number of good powders, but it is hard to go wrong, or get in trouble with 6.0 grains of Unique with your bullet.

rcmodel

 

[45ACPUSER]

I would highly suggest that you consider a few things that have been mentioned.

A prudent reloader does not just pluck a load out of the air....one works up loads looking for function, accuracy, and reliability.

The COAL with LRN should be 1.225" or so....
The crimp should yield a setting of 0.469 to 0.471" at the case mouth.

No matter what anyone says, in my book seating is one step and crimping is another! So, unfortunately adding the FCD or a Redding taper crimp die will add a step to your process.

You must seat primers firmly. The Lee tool should do a decent job.

There are many good powders, an old stand by is 231.

 

[45ACPUSER]

Buy the Lyman 48th Manual it is a great resource for lead bullet data!

 

[Jim Watson]

The usual bulk cast 230 RN is blunter than the jacketed hardball bullet. I loaded the last lot I had to 1.25". All I have seen had a clear division between the .452" bearing surface and the nose. Seat with that dividing line JUST outside the case mouth.

Chamber check in the barrel, clean and out of the gun. If they do not go all the way in FREELY, a Lee carbide factory crimp die will iron out the lumps. Some people criticize that but if it won't go in the chamber, it won't shoot at all.

You must get those primers seated all the way, best they are a little below flush with the case head.

I once loaded the 230 gr swaged lead Speer and 4.0 gr 700X.
Velocity was 716 fps and it functioned a Commander and a H&K USP.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

I cast my own 230 LRN and then size them to .452. I use CCI Large pistol primers, primed with a Lee handprimer and charge with 4.5 grains of W231. OAL is 1.235".

Out of my Series 70 Gold Cup, this can give me just one ragged hole after another handheld at 50 feet.

Jeff

 

[Griz44]

Separating the seating and the taper crimp on the 45acp greatly reduces the risk of errors with mis adjusted combination seat/crimp dies. Especially for a beginner. I know for sure it got me on the right track a lot faster. Since I divorced the two functions, my misfeeds went from one every hundred or so to one every thousand or so. With lead round nosed, I seated from min to max and ran a lot of trials. I now seat at 1.265 and get very good feed and accuracy. I load 45 with 5.0 gr of HP38, or 4.4gr of Titegroup over Winchester WLP or CCI 300 primers topped off with home cast TL-45-230g-2og bullets. The failure to ignite may be because the case is not headspacing and is slipping past the shoulder in the barrel. That would cause a very light or non-existent strike mark on the primer. Probable cause would be overcrimping with a bullet seating die. It is very easy to do. With a FCD just set the die to the plate, run a loaded round up against it, screw the adjuster in til it touches, lower the round and give the adjuster another 1/2 turn. Measures out perfect every time. Very simple to set up, gives instant accurate results.

From the LEE site about FCD

A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition. It eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.

Good luck resolving your problems, there are a lot of great loaders here who have a lot of experience, listen to them, they sure helped me!

 

[strat81]

Be aware of which OAL you use. I had problems with ball ammo where the round jammed into the feed ramp in my 1911 when I loaded it to 1.235". I bumped it up to 1.255" and my feeding problems went away.

 

[cpttango30]

I am seeing nothing lower than 4.7gr 700x with a 230 gr LRN.

I tried 700x and did not like it for the simple fact that it was dirty very very very dirty.

If I were you I would burn up that can and switch to Titegroup or bullseye.

I would say light load and your not seating the primers all the way.

Bump that load up to 4.7gr and see how that works.

 

[LB7_Driver]

Other powders I have had VERY good results with in .45 ACP are AA #2 and AA #5.

AA #2 is excellent for lighter loads, and is economical since it requires a smaller charge.

AA #5 is an ideal full-power load for the .45 ACP (and 9mm).

Both powders are fine-grained ball powders and meter very well in a powder throw.


For reloading pistol ammo, I highly recommend a case gauge. Use it for each & every round you reload. I could tell you about the 1,000 rounds of .45 ACP I loaded that would not function (not enough crimp), but that would be too painful & embarrassing!

 

[Otto]

I will invest in calipers from Cabellas and a Lee FCD.

Without calipers, how are you measuring the OAL?

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

He didn't say he was (measuring the OAL). I reloaded for several years before I ever owned a set of calipers.

Jeff

 

[243winxb]

There is no need to use a Lee FCD if your seating / taper crimp die is adjusted properly to remove all the case mouth bell.

Outside case mouth diameter should measure .472" - .473" if you are getting the correct amount of taper crimp with your seating die.

The Lee FCD is fine, but it is very possible to over-crimp with them and actually ruin the bullet by squeezing it down until it becomes under-size for the bore.

That can lead to bore leading & accuracy problems you wouldn't otherwise have to deal with.

+ 1 Also,the handloaders that cast there own bullets and load then "AS CAST" might run into problems with the Lee FCD more than most. If the bullet as it drops for the mould is larger that .452" diameter, the FCD is going to size your bullet in the loaded round, not good for accuracy.

 

[ctiger]

Thank you all for sharing your experience and advice to get me on the right track. I will go back to the bench with a much better chance to succeed.

 

[308win]

When crimping the 45acp you want to set your crimp die so that it just removes the bell from the sizing step (the sizing step should put just the hint of a bell on the case mouth; if you are shaving lead when seating you need just a bit more); you can tell from observation of the case mouth after the crimp operation. It is a good practice to seat and crimp separately as others have recommended. I shoot 185gr lead swc and have never had a failure to feed following the above practices (several 000 rounds).

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

Also,the handloaders that cast there own bullets and load then "AS CAST" might run into problems with the Lee FCD more than most. If the bullet as it drops for the mould is larger that .452" diameter, the FCD is going to size your bullet in the loaded round, not good for accuracy.

This is definitely true, all the moreso if you're dropping bullets with traditional lube bands. Not as big an issue with TL moulds, but still . . . .

For those boolits that I know will be run through an FCD, I always run them through the sizer before I load them. Hell, I run most everything I cast through the sizer before I load them. Just makes me feel better.

Jeff