Help me pick a new hunting rifle/cartridge

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My .243 Tikka T3 Lite gets a lot of walking time when I'm thinking of varmints, especially eastern coyotes across the blueberry fields down back. It's got plenty of punch at 300 yards, compared with the .223, and less over-kill than my .270 Win. It has also done a number on several deer, both by grand-kids and myself. The rifle is a joy to carry and shoot. If I didn't have a .223, a .243, and a .270, the 6.5 Creed makes a lot of sense.

I've never owned a Winchester Mod. 70, but have shot many and like them, except for the triggers, at least in older ones. Being a guy who likes to shoot at the range a lot, I'm also not a fan of controlled-round feeding, but the worst thing about the Featherweight is the narrow forend. I have big hands and they just aren't comfortable for me. They also don't lay well when shooting off a rest.
 
I got out and shot the Barrett yesterday and I have to say I think the combination is really going to work for me. I was a little nervous that the recoil out of the ~5lb rifle would be unpleasant, and I would be back where I started, but the recoil of the 6.5CM was significantly less than my much heavier .308 or even heavier still 30-06.

I didn't get to shoot it a ton, the thin barrel profile got hot quick, and I had my 4 year old with me so I had to keep him entertained. We alternated, I would shoot a group, he would shoot 10 shots through his 22. I shot 5 different factory loads, but hesitate to publish the results due to my not particularly impressive shooting (don't blame the rifle, blame the shooter). I also forgot to bring a measuring tape so the group sizes are not accurate to the thousandth like many people post with calipers, just what i could see on the grid paper:

All groups three shots, 105 yards.
-Federal Power Shok 140gr SP: 1.5-2". used to sight in and shoot the first group. Nothing impressive, shot about 1.5-2" 3 shot group (read these groups with a grain of salt. I am not great at shooting for groups, and had a kid yappin in my ear the whole time).
-Federal Nontypical whitetail - 140gr SP: 3 shot group, 1.5-2" again. hot barrel.
-Federal Fusion, 140 gr - 3 shot group, right at 1" with two in the same hole. Looking good.... barrel pretty hot
-Hornady American Whitetail, 129gr - 2" 3 shot group, barrel getting a little too hot...
-Winchester deer season XP. 125 gr - right around 1" shots spread, all equal distance from each other. POI about 1" low, my target and shooting bench were both not level, which I think impacted the group (not holding the rifle consistently vertical relative to the target).

So after letting the barrel cool for ~20 minutes, I picked the best of the 3 shot groups and after convincing my son to be quiet for a minute, shot one quick 5 shot group:
Federal Fusion 140 gr SP: 2" overall group size. 4 of the 5 shots touching, and one a little over an inch away. VERY HAPPY!

My takeaway: This rifle will shoot. It is also very pleasant to shoot. I think the stock and the recoil pad to a lot to tame the recoil, but the difference in the .308 and 6.5CM was very obvious (which I was very excited about). I will definitely have to plan ahead for barrel cooling time if I am comparing loads again, because none of the shots I took after sighting in were "cold bore" or even close. I will pick up a few more boxes of fusion for now and get ready for the upcoming deer season.

FC

FC

 
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Very nice!! That's a quality firearm.

I'm new to the lightweight game myself, It's tough to lay down groups when the barrel heats up so quickly. I've read the only real way to do it is to fire your first cold bore round on the same target on three different days, so you're truly under the same conditions barrel wise.

As a reloader it's different aswell because it's tough to see small changes in your load. If I change the charge by a few grains or the seating depth by a few thousands that doesn't necessarily translate on paper since the barrel has a tendency to walk anyway. You can't be too hard on yourself about not shooting one hole like you're used to with other rifles.

Let us know how your ammo selection turns out.
 
Thanks for the report. In my opinion, you have demonstrated that the rifle is capable. When you have some time, you should be able to tighten things up. And if/when you do some load development, you should be able to get sub-MOA consistently. larueminati's suggestion of multiple cold bore shots is a good one. For a hunting rifle, it's the first shot that counts!
 
Lots of good opinions and facts contributed so far. My 2 cents:

You are absolutely right that the 30-06 stops being fun after about the first 20 rounds at the range. It's also more gun than you need for just about anything in North America.

I shoot 6.5x55 and 7x57, loaded to modern pressures. They are a delight. You can shoot up a box of 50 rounds at the range, and be wishing that you brought more ammo. It's nice to have a chambering that you can enjoy taking to the range, as well as reliably bringing down game. I'm sure that any of the modern 6.5 or 7mm cartridges would serve you well.

The 243 does have a reputation for wounding game. I have no evidence, but my reading and study tell me that this is because so many hunters don't choose their bullet wisely. Standard cup and core bullets have an unfortunate tendency to pull apart if they impact at more than about 2800 FPS. It's really easy to get more than that with medium weight bullets in a 243. As was mentioned earlier, a 100 grain Partition at 2950 FPS is a reliable and effective choice. I like the 243.

There are things that I do/don't like in a hunting rifle. YMMV:

*Magazines that stick down well below the firearm tend to be in the way. We're hunting deer, not doing combat. If your first shot misses, a second shot is less likely to be effective. If you're hunting coyotes or a family of pigs, then maybe you want more magazine capacity.

*I really like my little Rem 600. Yes, the barrel is short, and the report is loud. But it's easy to carry all day. The short barrel yields lower muzzle velocity, but I long ago decided that I was not willing to walk more than 200 yards to pick up an animal and haul it back to the truck. That simplified my life a lot.

*I don't like AR style rifles for anything larger than 223/5.56. The straight back stock design forces you to mount your optics higher than I like, and the best thing you can say about the charging handle is that it is equally awkward for righties and lefties. If you've got a scope, there really isn't a lot of clearance for your fingers under the bell when you operate the charging handle.

*Like most people, I started out with variable scopes. Later in life, I came to prefer fixed scopes. For deer out to 200 yards, a fixed 4x is completely adequate. The upside is that they tend to be a little less expensive, and they are lighter to carry in the field. They are also more rugged, and you don't have a zoom so you don't have POI shift from zooming. I have a little 3x32 on my AR15, and love it. It's light, and extremely bright under dim conditions.

You're giving careful thought to the situation. Good luck with your choice. I hope you get what you want, an enjoy it greatly.
 
Thanks guys. Now that I have it sighted in and know what Ill be putting through it, I look forward to taking some cold bore shots in the coming weeks.
I really like the suggestion to take multiple cold bore shots on a single target over several range trips, and will do this are report back along the way.

Denton: Thanks the for the reply and I agree with all of your statements. One thing I also like is the fixed 4x scope. I used a Leupold FXII 4x33 for the last few seasons on my .308 and love how simple it is. No time spent fooling around with any settings. I will be using my much more complicated adjustable parallax illuminated reticle 3-18 the same way. Set it on 3 power, and don't touch it when the deer steps out. I do enjoy the ability to zoom at the range, and one day hope to settle on a load and get the CDS dial.
 
Seems to me if you are looking to shoot deer and hogs, you really need two rifles. You probably will get repeated shots at hogs. A good semi auto 308 works wonderfully well for that. You might get a shot at a deer but not many follow up shots depending on area. A 257 Weatherby mag works well for deer from close to far. A rifle that has class, I like Cooper. There are others. There was a great looking Hill Country rifle in 257 on 24 hourcampfire.com a while back. I had to hold myself back because I have a Vanguard 257 that shoots under an inch at 100 yds. It does not compare with the above rifles but It shoots. Pick your cartridge, pick your price range, then look for a rifle.
 
IDK anything related to the BF.
I own a Sako Finnlite 6.5 x 55, and a larger one in .375. Both are fine rifles, no problems.
I own 2 .308 Wins. One is a semi custom Rem 700 with a Mannlicher stock that kicks like a mule (relative to my Win 70 in .30-06... the other Ruger GSR. This does not kick nearly so hard. One of them is for sale the other is not...

If it were me, given your prescriptions, I’d get the Win 70 in .308. Fine rifle. Fine cartridge.

I would also consider a 7mm -08; but that is because I want one...

Greg
 
cowboy77845 said:
Seems to me if you are looking to shoot deer and hogs, you really need two rifles. You probably will get repeated shots at hogs. A good semi auto 308 works wonderfully well for that.
Click to expand...

I built an AR in 6.5 grendel specifically for hogs. Waiting to get a replacement barrel back from Odin Works currently. Debating a 1-4x or red dot optic for it. Should be the perfect tool for the job.
 
Quick update on the Barret Fieldcraft, because I haven't seen much information about it on here.

I picked up a couple boxes of Hornady Precision Hunter 143 grain eld-x. Shot 20 into five 3 shot groups and one 5 shot group. Liking these results! Barret claims to have built these rifles to shoot heavier hunting projectiles better, but I don't know enough about chambers throats and twists to really know what that means, but this is the heaviest stuff I have shot (and also most expensive). Anyways....
Smallest 3 shot group just under 3/4"
Largest just over 1.5" (this is right around the smallest group I shot on my first outing with ~5 different types of hunting ammo)
others all round 1" - 1.25"
5 shot group, shooting relatively quickly, put three touching and two about an inch away, both of which I felt myself pulling.

After shooting this rifle on four occasions in three weeks (that's a lot of shooting for me) totaling probably 120-130 rounds, I cannot say enough good things about this rifle. Extremely light, stock is extremely rigid, bolt is the smoothest I have felt and feels great in the hand. Internal/blind magazine hasn't bothered me a bit, and holds 4+1 rounds which is plenty. What I am most surprised about is how soft the rifle shoots given its light weight. Not sure how much to attribute this to the stock/recoil pad, or the cartridge, as it is my fist experience with both. If they ever release the "micro action" chamberings they teased, and include 6.5 Grendel, I will definitely be picking one up. I can also see picking up a 30-06 one day and having those three rifles in my safe and not much more....This rifle makes me look at my beautiful CZ 550FS in a completely different way.
 
edapp said:
Quick update on the Barret Fieldcraft, because I haven't seen much information about it on here.

I picked up a couple boxes of Hornady Precision Hunter 143 grain eld-x. Shot 20 into five 3 shot groups and one 5 shot group. Liking these results! Barret claims to have built these rifles to shoot heavier hunting projectiles better, but I don't know enough about chambers throats and twists to really know what that means, but this is the heaviest stuff I have shot (and also most expensive). Anyways....
Smallest 3 shot group just under 3/4"
Largest just over 1.5" (this is right around the smallest group I shot on my first outing with ~5 different types of hunting ammo)
others all round 1" - 1.25"
5 shot group, shooting relatively quickly, put three touching and two about an inch away, both of which I felt myself pulling.

After shooting this rifle on four occasions in three weeks (that's a lot of shooting for me) totaling probably 120-130 rounds, I cannot say enough good things about this rifle. Extremely light, stock is extremely rigid, bolt is the smoothest I have felt and feels great in the hand. Internal/blind magazine hasn't bothered me a bit, and holds 4+1 rounds which is plenty. What I am most surprised about is how soft the rifle shoots given its light weight. Not sure how much to attribute this to the stock/recoil pad, or the cartridge, as it is my fist experience with both. If they ever release the "micro action" chamberings they teased, and include 6.5 Grendel, I will definitely be picking one up. I can also see picking up a 30-06 one day and having those three rifles in my safe and not much more....This rifle makes me look at my beautiful CZ 550FS in a completely different way.
Click to expand...
I'll give that 550 FS a loving, nurturing, and respectful home if the time ever comes. ..
 
Quick update after this mornings range session:
Shoots 5 shots into 3/4" with hornady precision hunter, and just over an inch with federal non-typical. Federal has a $5 rebate per box right now so I think I will stock up on the nontypical SP ammo.
IMG_0010

IMG_0010

IMG_0009

IMG_0009


Extremely happy with this group, best group I have ever shot. Also my four year old son put 9/10 subsonic 22's onto a 6" steel plate at 25 yards with his Savage Rascal. So much fun to watch!
 
Newtosavage said:
Not my idea of lightweight, but if it works for you- great!

Looking at the OP's specs, I would have no hesitation in recommending the same rifle I own - a stainless 7mm-08 Tikka T3.
Click to expand...

Well...

Mossberg Patriot Synthetic (22"/.308) - 6.5 Lbs.

Tikka T3 Lite (22"/.308) - 6.2 Lbs.

And you will pay over $750/lb for that 0.3 lb weight savings.




GR
 
I am a 243 man it it the best low recoil center fired round that that will kill deer hog.s any thing from 200lb down to small game with little recoil also it will shoot a 55gr bullet up to 106gr small game large game it has taken larger game by people that is very good hunters has taken elk cow & bull. I do not recommend it but people that is am expert can do so.
 
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denton said:
Lots of good opinions and facts contributed so far. My 2 cents:

You are absolutely right that the 30-06 stops being fun after about the first 20 rounds at the range. It's also more gun than you need for just about anything in North America.

I shoot 6.5x55 and 7x57, loaded to modern pressures. They are a delight. You can shoot up a box of 50 rounds at the range, and be wishing that you brought more ammo. It's nice to have a chambering that you can enjoy taking to the range, as well as reliably bringing down game. I'm sure that any of the modern 6.5 or 7mm cartridges would serve you well.

The 243 does have a reputation for wounding game. I have no evidence, but my reading and study tell me that this is because so many hunters don't choose their bullet wisely. Standard cup and core bullets have an unfortunate tendency to pull apart if they impact at more than about 2800 FPS. It's really easy to get more than that with medium weight bullets in a 243. As was mentioned earlier, a 100 grain Partition at 2950 FPS is a reliable and effective choice. I like the 243.

There are things that I do/don't like in a hunting rifle. YMMV:

*Magazines that stick down well below the firearm tend to be in the way. We're hunting deer, not doing combat. If your first shot misses, a second shot is less likely to be effective. If you're hunting coyotes or a family of pigs, then maybe you want more magazine capacity.

*I really like my little Rem 600. Yes, the barrel is short, and the report is loud. But it's easy to carry all day. The short barrel yields lower muzzle velocity, but I long ago decided that I was not willing to walk more than 200 yards to pick up an animal and haul it back to the truck. That simplified my life a lot.

*I don't like AR style rifles for anything larger than 223/5.56. The straight back stock design forces you to mount your optics higher than I like, and the best thing you can say about the charging handle is that it is equally awkward for righties and lefties. If you've got a scope, there really isn't a lot of clearance for your fingers under the bell when you operate the charging handle.

*Like most people, I started out with variable scopes. Later in life, I came to prefer fixed scopes. For deer out to 200 yards, a fixed 4x is completely adequate. The upside is that they tend to be a little less expensive, and they are lighter to carry in the field. They are also more rugged, and you don't have a zoom so you don't have POI shift from zooming. I have a little 3x32 on my AR15, and love it. It's light, and extremely bright under dim conditions.

You're giving careful thought to the situation. Good luck with your choice. I hope you get what you want, an enjoy it greatly.
Click to expand...

A lower-cost, but good alternative to the partitions is the Nosler Accubond. I shot an 860 lb moose last year with a 140 grain one from my .270 Win, and it worked quite well. They're also very accurate, grouping 1/2 MOA out of my Rem 700 CDL.
John's Moose-Killer .270.jpg
 
Garandimal said:
Well...

Mossberg Patriot Synthetic (22"/.308) - 6.5 Lbs.

Tikka T3 Lite (22"/.308) - 6.2 Lbs.

And you will pay over $750/lb for that 0.3 lb weight savings.




GR
Click to expand...

I'd believe that 6.5 lbs when I saw it. And unless the Mossberg is free, it's not a $750 difference. I bought my Tikka at the Cabelas Gun Library for $499. Add the fact that that the Tikka is a much better rifle, and is stainless and yea, I'd make that deal every single day. ;)

I have nothing against the Mossberg. I'm sure they are decent rifles. But until a person owns a Tikka, they really don't understand what guys like me are willing to pay for. I mean, nobody I know builds customs off of Mossberg actions, and I've yet to own a Tikka (and I've owned 4) that didn't shoot close to 1/2" out of the box.

Besides the best deal in blued steel rifles is the Howa barreled actions that Brownells is clearing out. I have no idea why anyone would pay for $299 a Mossberg when they could get Weatherby Vanguard on clearance at Wal-Mart for $249 or a Howa 1500 Barreled action for $229, and then put the money they saved toward a custom stock.
 
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someguy2800 said:
Yes and a Kia gets better gas mileage than a Mercedes.
Click to expand...
HEY! my KIA does NOT get better gas millage than a Mercedes...wait.....never mind.....

Mossberg does offer some nice feature. Ive only handled the older ones and they were pretty klunky, but generally they seem to be pretty well liked by their owners.
Im honestly not a T3 fan, theres a few things about them that just bug me, but they do feel more refined than at least the older Mossys.
 
Newtosavage said:
I'd believe that 6.5 lbs when I saw it. And unless the Mossberg is free, it's not a $750 difference. I bought my Tikka at the Cabelas Gun Library for $499. Add the fact that that the Tikka is a much better rifle, and is stainless and yea, I'd make that deal every single day. ;)

I have nothing against the Mossberg. I'm sure they are decent rifles. But until a person owns a Tikka, they really don't understand what guys like me are willing to pay for. I mean, nobody I know builds customs off of Mossberg actions, and I've yet to own a Tikka (and I've owned 4) that didn't shoot close to 1/2" out of the box.

Besides the best deal in blued steel rifles is the Howa barreled actions that Brownells is clearing out. I have no idea why anyone would pay for $299 a Mossberg when they could get Weatherby Vanguard on clearance at Wal-Mart for $249 or a Howa 1500 Barreled action for $229, and then put the money they saved toward a custom stock.
Click to expand...

$750/Lb.(~ $230)

:D

Just weighed one of the synthetic stocked Std. action .270 WIN Patriots with the Vortex Cross-fire II scope - 8.3 Lbs.

They are a lightweight < 2 MOA utility rifle... a beater.

Got them as starters for my boys for < $400 Vortex scoped and was duly impressed.

The only thing unusual is that there is no bolt hold-down retention when cocked.

Other than that, the Bbls are nice with light fluting and recess crown, the action is spiral fluted and smooth, and the lightweight stock is pure classic M70.




GR
 
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