Help Please: Another safe comparison and help me choose thread

[shatter]

Hello,

I am looking to pick up a new safe and have narrowed it down to American Security and Fort Knox. I want to buy from a local dealer that will install and provide support after the sale. After doing a lot of reading, youtube watching and scouring the interwebs, I have narrowed down my choices. I have provided a chart below showing the three safes I am considering, which are the Amsec BF7240, the Fort Knox Defender 7241 + Deluxe and the Fort Knox Maverick 7241 + Deluxe. The safe will be placed in my garage and bolted to the slab.

The Maverick seems attractive when paired with the Deluxe package as you get the 0.375 in thick plate with 10 gauge outer sheet that you get with the Defender at the cost of worse fire protection. Fort Knox has a deal going on through the month of July where for $450, you get lighting package, redundant locks and Deluxe 2 upgrade for their Vaults (Maverick doesn't count from what I can tell). The Fort Knox with Deluxe seems like a compelling choice because of the upgraded door and body metal thickness.

I am a little bit squeamish on $5k and even the $4.5k hurts some. The Maverick just seems like a deal when upgraded. The Maverick Plus gets 120 @ 1200F fire for $500 more than the Maverick. Thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

 

[oneounceload]

Just realize that the number of guns is truly ab out half of their stated amount - even more true for guns with scopes and AR type grips and magazines. On top of that always buy a safe twice as big as you think you need - guns multiply inside!

 

[Savage99]

If I buy another safe or if I move from this house I am getting a safe I can take with me myself.

Safes that can be assembled by you and I are made by some companies now. Snap Safe, Zanotti and others make them.

 

[joem1945]

Buy the biggest you can. Check with safe companies as they may have a used vault but you'd have do to the interior yourself.

 

[ku4hx]

Figure out the largest one you need then get double that size.

I got one of these for rifles: http://www.storemoreguns.com/collections/gun-safe-accessories/rifle-rods It did exactly as advertised. If you fret over a plastic rod in a long gun's bore it's not for you.

If you by one with an electronic lock; don't lose the backup keys and keep several spare batteries on hand at all times.

 

[cdk8]

The contents of your safe play a big role here. Specifically, the value, the importance, and what you want. Do you want a safe that can protect in minor/moderate fires (but not severe fires?) Would you prefer a safe that is mainly fire-oriented or one that can actually withstand burglary attempts? The RSC rating in general is generally a sign of a safe made for lower security where economical pricing necessitates security vulnerabilities. They do not fare well at all when attacked and should never be relied upon for protecting valuable collections or heirlooms or documents.

The AmSec BF is a reasonably well made safe, but the smaller B-rate BF safes are far superior to their gun safe counterparts under that same BF name. However, like Fort Knox and most other makers of products in this niche, these safes won't do a damned thing to keep people out beyond the most incompetent of attacks. The Maverick is not going to give ample protection in many home fires. The time is too little, the test temp is too low, and the fireproof material itself is second class. The BF gun safe also has a low test temp, but it does at least use a composite pour material. And many gun safes get fire ratings from private companies other than the UL for a very specific reason...

Gun safe makers will likely also use a lower end Group 2 lock, such as the S&G 6741, which is complete garbage. The S&G 6730 is the industry benchmark of quality, and the 6630 is based on the 6730 but is a Group 2M lock since it provides a moderate level of resistance to manipulation (a standard Group 2 has no resistance.)

If you are willing to spend 4 grand on a safe, my advice is to invest in a real security safe. Gun safes drive up prices to outrageous levels through customizations and fancy cosmetics, but that will not make the safe work better. Go for the Brown HD (not Browning, which is junk) in the base configuration with the TL-15 setup (and it will come with a UL Group 1 high security lock made to defeat expert manipulation.) That safe will protect the contents from skilled attacks and the nastiest of fires. The quality and customer service is outstanding, and the safes themselves are just ridiculously tough. But that is the type of safe that prevents a bad situation from becoming a catastrophic one.
http://www.brownsafe.com/hd-safes/hd6024.html

 

[shatter]

Thanks for all the responses. I have about 15 long guns and another half dozen handguns that need to be secured. None of my guns have lots of value though a few of them are in the $1,500-$2,000 range, most are $500-$750. Besides that, it is just documents that aren't of particular street value like birth certificates and passports.

I have an old Liberty Washington 50 (UL RSC) built in 1995 that has some other items of value such as gold coins.

The idea that RSC rated safes is one I have seen in many threads and makes me wonder whether you just go with the cheapest 11 gauge or better RSC you can find or step up to a TL-15 or better safe. There isn't value in paying for a premium RSC.

The Brown 7228 is probably the smallest I could go with and fit everything I need inside it at $5,000-$5,200. I suppose I should look around at prices of other TL-15 safes like the Amsec RF6528 for $6,500 but then the value of the safe is more than my gear. So many decisions!

Hollon makes a TL-15 gun safe that I see selling on ebay for 4,300 or less. Again, a bit on the smallish size.
http://www.hollonsafe.com/safes_category.html?item_id=21

 

[njl]

Just realize that the number of guns is truly ab out half of their stated amount - even more true for guns with scopes and AR type grips and magazines. On top of that always buy a safe twice as big as you think you need - guns multiply inside!

You just have to learn to count like a gun safe manufacturer.

Basic rifle or shotty with bead sight = 1
Scoped rifle or tactical shotty with ghost ring sights = 2
AR with optics = 3

 

[shatter]

I see a Hollon TL-15 Gun Safe on ebay for $4,300 but haven't heard of them before and the size is a bit tight. Or I can forgo the local dealer and call Sturdy.

http://www.hollonsafe.com/safes_category.html?item_id=21

The same Hollon safe with just shelves is $3,200 on ebay.

 

[oneounceload]

Have you called any local locksmiths who sells safes? They might have a used one from a trade-in you could get a deal on.

 

[cdk8]

Thanks for all the responses. I have about 15 long guns and another half dozen handguns that need to be secured. None of my guns have lots of value though a few of them are in the $1,500-$2,000 range, most are $500-$750. Besides that, it is just documents that aren't of particular street value like birth certificates and passports.

I have an old Liberty Washington 50 (UL RSC) built in 1995 that has some other items of value such as gold coins.

The idea that RSC rated safes is one I have seen in many threads and makes me wonder whether you just go with the cheapest 11 gauge or better RSC you can find or step up to a TL-15 or better safe. There isn't value in paying for a premium RSC.

The Brown 7228 is probably the smallest I could go with and fit everything I need inside it at $5,000-$5,200. I suppose I should look around at prices of other TL-15 safes like the Amsec RF6528 for $6,500 but then the value of the safe is more than my gear. So many decisions!

Hollon makes a TL-15 gun safe that I see selling on ebay for 4,300 or less. Again, a bit on the smallish size.
http://www.hollonsafe.com/safes_cate...tml?item_id=21

Quite often the AmSec HS is much pricier than its parent safe, the AMVAULT (same design but the AMVAULT is a basic high-security safe, where as the HS is a high-security gun safe with customizations). Have you considered going with the standard AmSec AMVAULT? They have TL-15, TL-30, and TL-30x6 offerings, and for your application TL-15 would be way more than enough. There 20-ish cubic foot TL-15 AMVAULTS can often be purchased for under $3,500.

A RSC rating means that the safe passed a certain UL test (a one-man, 5-minute attack, with basic non-powered hand tools targeting the front door only.) The quality differs greatly among RSCs, partly because the minimum construction specs for something to quality for assessment is pretty meager. For example, the AmSec BF 2116 is a class-B safe with a RSC certification. As it is made to B-rate construction specs, this safe has over twice the armor of most gun safe RSCs. The biggest issue with most RSCs are very thin side armor that is generally easy to defeat...once the safe is built to B-rate (1/4 inch) and even more so C-rate (1/2 inch side armor plate), the safe is going to buy quite a lot more time in an attack.

I would often use Lackasafe to show to customers so they could get an idea on how much they can save buying used or floor models...sometimes you can find a used model in good shape that is well under half or a third of the cost new. It’s a good approximation if going used is potentially of interest.

Pricing B-rate or C-rate Graffunders or FireKings may also be worth consideration. While they are not near the armor of a TL-15 or TL-30, a good B-rate or C-rate safe is no easy task to break into, and safes built to these specs provide owners with a middle point between unrated safe or bare-spec'd RSCs and the full blown high-security safes.

 

[Sav .250]

If you can`t decide after doing all that research, You need to step back and re-evaluate
your choices.

Leaving it up to others to make a choice for you ..........