Help the new guy?

[MKIII]

So I haven't really fired a gun since I was about 16 (around 14 years ago) and I'm looking for a cheap, reliable handgun to keep around the house for self defense. I'll probably take it to the local conservation league and fire it fairly regularly.

I have been looking at the Ruger P95, the Smith and Wesson Sigma 9mm, and the Walther PK380. Any other suggestions or advice? Thanks in advance.

 

[WadeWilson]

Welcome to THR. I think either the Ruger or the Smith would be a fine choice. I wouldn't personally grab a 380 for HD. I like the round just fine in a gun that I can stick in my pocket and go with, but I would at least go with a 9mm for a home and range gun. You will find 9mm rounds cheaper and easier to find as well. Thats my couple of pennies.

 

[Buck Snort]

When it comes to firearms the words "cheap" and "reliable" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!

 

[krazykeny]

Those are hardly cheap handguns.
Try Rossi, or an EEA Windicator in .357 Magnum,Or a Hi-Point in .40sw,or 45acp.
Not going to win any beauty contests with any of them, but they always go BANG !
DO NOT consider a .380 auto a good first time self defense handgun.
Revolvers make better first time hanguns.

On this or any gun forum, watch for gun snobs trying to talk you into their favorite
but overpriced semi-automatics.

Especially watch for Glock owners talking trash about Hi-Ponts.
There are many more people who shoot ,and love their cheap Hi-Points than there are semiauto owners
who cannot stand the idea that their over priced beauty won't do a single thing that a cheap Hi-Point won't do.

For your first buy get something cheap.
If you then decide this is going to be your favorite expensive hobby.
Then buy something more expensive,and suitable for whatever shooting sport you choose.
You will then be better able know what you really want.

Ask yourself, if you buy a first handgun,and hate it.
Would you rather hate a $150 Hi-Point, a $300 Windicator, a $600 Glock,
or a $1000 Kimber?
Same for haveing to use it in self defense, and haveing the police take it.

I chose a EAA Windicator for $150 new at a Jacksonville Forida gunshow.
It is a very strong heavy steel frame snubnose .357 revolver.
I can practice and plink with $10 per 50 round semi wadcutters from the local range.
But keep very effective Speer Gold Dot 135 .38 sp grain +P for short barrels loaded in it for self defense.
If the police take it, then it is a "so what".

If I really want to kill Zombies, or want to explode water jugs,and watermelons.
Full power Blazer Jacketed .357 hollowpoints are $23 per 20 includeing sales tax.
Even Handloaders will have a hard time beating those prices for bullets for their semiautos in 9mm 40sw, or .45acp.

I am my own best example of what I am talking about.
I bought the Windicator for self defense.
I later got a Smith and Wesson model 686 .357 Mag with a 6" barrel in satin finish stainless steel.
I will put it against ANY semiauto handgun at anything a handgun is supposed to do.
Fireing 200 grain full metal jacket long flat nosed bullets.
I would not be afraid to shoot a bear, or a razorback hog with it.

Here is few examples in Jacksonville, Florida.
Should be able to find simular deals where ever you are.
Rossi = http://www.shootersjax.com/Rossi.aspx
EEA Windicator = http://www.shootersjax.com/eaawind357mag4inbl.aspx
Hi-Point = http://www.shootersjax.com/Hi-Point-Pistols.aspx

.

 

[neededausername]

I'm a Ruger fan so I would vote for the P95 out of the list you posted. However I would also suggest looking into a .357, doesn't need to be snubbie if it's just for Home Defense and not for Concealed Carry. The S&W you listed would be fine as well, but I agree with others, don't start with the 380.

 

[IBEWBULL]

If you really want to learn to shoot get a .22 and practice.
You get what you pay for bbut do not have to go nuts either.
The Ruger sandard auto pistol comes in several configurations and you should take a look.
Spending $15+ on ammo as a beginner can put the kibosh on the practice rather quickly.
After a while you may wish to step up to a centerfire.
I see someone elas recomended a 357 I have to agree with this.
You get more options from 38 target ammo to 158grain 357 Jacket. So you can use it in many aplications.
There are some good deals on police trade ins out there. A four inch SW or Ruger can be carried in a pinch if need be with a good belt and holster.
I doubt you will get rid of the .22 since you can't have a better investment.
Keep asking questions and look at this forum beford shelling out the cash.
Also check the ammo prices and put some waches on Gun Broker to see what things are actually selling for.Asking a high price is like fishing they can ask what ever the market will bear. So look at the guns with actual bids on them.

 

[jad0110]

I have been looking at the Ruger P95, the Smith and Wesson Sigma 9mm, and the Walther PK380. Any other suggestions or advice? Thanks in advance.

I think you are on the right track. Particularly with the 9mms, 9mm being the most affordable centerfire handgun round today. .380 is finally starting to show up on shelves again in my area, but it isn't particularly cheap.

When it comes to firearms the words "cheap" and "reliable" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!

Well, I think the OP probably means "inexpensive", which doesn't necessarily mean "cheap" as in "chintzy".

Here are some inexpensive handgun suggestions for the OP from my own collection. All are quality weapons, 100% reliable, and cost less than $325 (before tax).


Ruger Police Service Six, 4" .357 Magnum (can shoot relatively cheap .38 Special). Cost: $279 in Oct '09. This is one of my favorite handguns as it is highly versatile. It makes a good house gun, but it also makes a very comfortable/concealable handgun with a good belt and holster. It also has that well earned Ruger reputation for reliability and durability. Plus it aims pretty naturally in my hands.

At $279 it is inexpensive, but that doesn't make it "cheap".





S&W K Frame .38 Special. There are various models from which to choose. For under $325 these days, you are looking at a 4" or longer barrel (anything less will often cost more than $325). Though "only" .38 Special, I happen to prefer .38 Special over .357 for defense anyway because it offers plenty of penetration and expansion (given proper ammo selection) with low recoil, quick follow up shots and less bang and ear splitting crack. They feel great in my hands, and like the Ruger above are quite easy to carry concealed if you decide to do so one day.

Here are 2 examples:


S&W Military & Police .38 (pre-Model 10) 5", paid $235 in summer '10):





S&W Model 15-3 4", paid $309 in spring '09:





Taurus Model 431, 3", 5 shot .44 Special. These are very rare in my area, but at only $268 in Oct '10 it was a no brainer. The gun shoots to point of aim, feels natural to me, functions 100% and has almost as nice a trigger as my S&Ws. It's about the same width as the other guns pictured above, so it would also make a nice carry gun. The weight of the steel frame also means that recoil is quite manageable. The only drawback is that .44 Special can be pricey and sometimes hard to find.

 

[Sniderman]

In my humble opinion
I have to agree with (at least) two previous posters.
(A)""When it comes to firearms, the words "cheap" and "reliable" shouldn't be
used in the same sentence.""
(B)"Revolvers make better first time handguns."

That being said, the question is, Where is "Home." Do you live in a cardboard condo, A suburban neighborhood, or out in the country?

In the condo my personal first choice would be a Taurus Judge with buckshot loads.

In a more open environment, suburbs, countryside, you may have to return fire at an accomplice in, or near a vehicle in your yard/driveway This calls for more accuracy at distance I think something in the 4" to 6" barrel .357 line comes to mind.
In the condo situation I would humbly recommend something like the Taurus Judge, Spraying buckshot through a BG would possibly improve your standing in the eyes of other occupants of the building, Whereas accidentally exterminating some of them with over penetrating power of a 180GR JSP out of a 6" barrel .357 would most likely impact your, life, wallet and reputation, in a negative way. :banghead:

It all comes down to the right tool for the job.
Whatever you decide to get, the most important thing you need after 14 years of not shooting is training and practice, as much of each as you can afford.

_________________

Welcome to The Republic Of Vermont, Get off my Lawn!

 

[jad0110]

Oh yeah, and like IBEWBULL points out, a 22 would be a great 1st, or at least 2nd gun at some point. I'm not necessarily above using a 22 for defense, though I don't exactly trust the ignition reliability of rimfires and penetration can be iffy.

 

[rcmodel]

I always suggest a .22RF for anyones first handgun.
Unless you are Bill Gates Jr, or you reload, buying enough centerfire ammo to practice a lot will get to be more then most folks can afford to spend.

And centerfire recoil & blast can set a beginner back a long way by causing hard to cure flenching from the getgo.


So, maybe a Ruger Single-Six convertible?
You can shoot cheap .22RF by the butt-loads to learn to shoot a handgun really well.
Then pop in the .22 Magnum cylinder for HD.

Perhaps .22 Mag is not an ideal HD caliber, but it sure beats a sharp stick, golf club, or a .22RF!

rc

 

[BCRider]

A hearty "DITTO!" on the idea of a .22 as your first or soon after second gun. The cheap training at the range you can get out of the .22 that is directly applicable to using the center fire gun makes getting one almost mandatory.

For a sample of the pitfalls that can trap a handgun shooter look at this currently running thread....
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=561279

Which .22 you get will depend on which center fire gun you want to get. So buying the center fire first isn't really a bad thing. But both for fun AND cheap training at the range you really should get a matching style of .22 gun soon after so you can work on all the factors discussed in that thread.

 

[MKIII]

A couple of clarifications, I own a couple guns now that I inherited from my uncle a few months back. He left me a Mossburg 410 and a Mossburg 16 gauge. That is what made me want to buy a handgun, was the memories I had shooting guns when I was growing up. The wife and I have been shooting the shotguns at my dad's house, teaching the wife how to shoot, and having a blast. I plan on getting her a Ruger 22 pistol in a couple months because anything over the 410 kind of scares her. I was hoping to start her out on a 22 then work her up to the 9mm after she got used to it.

When I say cheap I am talking in the 300-400 dollar range. I realize that isn't exactly cheap but I mean cheap in comparison to $1000+ Kimbers, $700 Glocks, and $900 Sigs that I was looking at in the local gun shop.

BTW I live in Mansfield Ohio where they make Hi-Points. I have just read and heard so many bad things about them that I was kind of leery. The local gun shop sales guy was really talking them down.

Also I live in a house right in the middle of Mansfield, neighbors really close all around.

Edit: Also I have big monkey hands. I looked at a few of the .38 specials from Smith and Wesson but I hate the way they felt in my hands.

 

[Buck Snort]

For home defense that 16 ga. loaded with #1 shot should be the cat's meow. Now, as others have suggested, get a decent .22 and practice until you can shoot the hairs off a knat's ass and then move up to a heavier caliber. You'll do just fine.

 

[Armored farmer]

For home defense that 16 ga. loaded with #1 shot should be the cat's meow. Now, as others have suggested, get a decent .22 and practice until you can shoot the hairs off a knat's ass and then move up to a heavier caliber. You'll do just fine.

+1 to this and the other .22 suggestions.
I made a .22 suggestion on a similar "first gun" post a while back and got shot down....glad to see you guys coming around to my way of thinking lol!

 

[Sauer Grapes]

There are soooo many used autos out there that guys buy and decide they don't want, you can get a quality handgun for about 400.00.
While a .22 is fun to shoot, I'm not buying one for HD. Find a full size 9mm and get somebody to give you some instructions on shooting handguns.

 

[PabloJ]

So I haven't really fired a gun since I was about 16 (around 14 years ago) and I'm looking for a cheap, reliable handgun to keep around the house for self defense. I'll probably take it to the local conservation league and fire it fairly regularly.

I have been looking at the Ruger P95, the Smith and Wesson Sigma 9mm, and the Walther PK380. Any other suggestions or advice? Thanks in advance.

Used Ruger 9mm Luger pistol or .38/.357 revolver would be a good choice. Make sure that it passes "Walmart ammo availability test".

 

[JohnBiltz]

You can probably pick up a number of quality handguns each in that price range including Glocks, Rugers or S&W. I'd recommend a 9mm since its a decent self defense round and the cheapest to shoot and practice with.

 

[BCRider]

On the Hi Point issue. Well, Hi Points and other guns of the same sort. From all accounts they do go BANG reliably enough. But such guns, the HP's in particular, are big and bulky and lack a lot of refinement in balance and poise. In the case of the HP's it's because they use the cheaper to produce direct blowback style of action. To do this the slide has to be very heavy. So the gun is big, lumpy and heavy. That's fine if it's going to sit on the bedroom night table but not so fine if you want to shoot it a lot at the range and actually care about aesthetic design of stuff you own. I do so I won't ever buy one. But it's not because they are junk that won't shoot. It's because I want something that I feel good about owning. Something that has a nice balance, a sense of historical connection to old guns and that I can look at the workmanship and feel that someone cared when they made my gun and put it together. It's not just about making noise and sending lead downrange. If it was then maybe I'd have an HP or similar cheap gun.

And since it sounds like you want to shoot for fun as well as using the guns as defensive tools I'd suggest that you look around a bit more at used options and be patient. Deals do show up and if you're on the prowl regularly and leave messages with local shops such as "if a XYZ in 9mm shows up for a decent price call me quick like". With a bit of patience you'll end up with a handgun or three that suit you and your wife for range fun as well as being good for teaching her to shoot. You're already on the right track with the Ruger in .22 as a family training gun.

I'd also suggest checking out the competition shooting scene in your area. Especially IPSC, IDPA and cowboy action. Go along as spectators and see what she thinks of it all. And don't be surprised if you and her find that cowboy action is a lot of fun. Youtube is full of vids of all three styles if you want to gather around the monitor and get a sneak peak of the fun. And don't worry about having to shoot as quick as Superman. I know the vids will seem like everyone shoots that fast but for each that is as quick there's dozens of us normal folk plodding through the stages with big grins having a good AND SAFE time at normal speed....

 

[bestseller92]

I've had a Ruger P95 for 12 years now and it has never malfunctioned. At around $300 new, I consider it a superb value, perhaps the best value in a new handgun on the market today.

 

[Ronsch]

Is there a local indoor range (I am not sure what a conservation league is) and/or gun store where you can rent a variety of handguns or at least see what feels right in person? if so, spend the few dollars for a range session and rental/ammo of the various handguns you might be interested in. That will give you a feel for the trigger (even though everyone is different) squeeze, grips, recoil, etc.

Just being able to handle them will tell you how the feel is for your hand, gripping and sighting style.

 

[MKIII]

Is there a local indoor range (I am not sure what a conservation league is) and/or gun store where you can rent a variety of handguns or at least see what feels right in person? if so, spend the few dollars for a range session and rental/ammo of the various handguns you might be interested in. That will give you a feel for the trigger (even though everyone is different) squeeze, grips, recoil, etc.

Just being able to handle them will tell you how the feel is for your hand, gripping and sighting style.

A conservation league (also called club, association, etc.) is like a big area that usually has woods, a small lake, gun and archery ranges on it and you have to pay to be a member. There is at least one in about every county around here.

This is the one just a few minutes from me.

http://www.rcfgclub.com/

Sadly I don't know of any place I can rent a gun. There is an indoor range in Columbus Ohio but that is a couple hours away.

 

[golden]

Sigma

MKIII

Of the guns you listed, I would go with the SIGMA. It is my favorite of the three.

I have shot it and it is accurate enough for defense purposes, reliable and light enough that you can carry it concealed if needed.

The RUGER semi-auto pistols are reliable, but the early models feel chunky in my hand.

I would pass on the WALTHER because .380ACP is not as powerful as the 9m.m. and during the AMMO SHORTAGE we had, I could not find any .380!

I would try both guns and see which one you shoot better with. The RUGER will have a traditional double/single action while the SIGMA will give you a GLOCK like SAFE ACTION trigger.
It is a matter of personal preference.

Jim