Help with gang activity!

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Well, martial arts are good, and they teach kids a lot of good lessons, but really, all martial arts do is prepare you for one thing--beating an unarmed assailant in a one on one fight. In your son's case, he had *three* armed attackers. Before the BJJ,MT,whatever guys jump all over me, I've seen a lot of the disarming techniques in person and on instructionals, and I'd never try one of them in real life unless my back was against the wall and I was unarmed.

My advice would be to get the kid on a sports team, not just to build up his cardio and get him in running shape, but to get him on a team of people (and coaches) who will have his back in future situations. People are a lot more likely to mess with a loner or a regular kid than say, a footballer with some big linebacker friends.

That said, there is one thing I recommend--Bas Rutten's Lethal Streetfighting DVD. It's pretty low-budget, but it's made by an absolute legend in MMA, and he shows a lot of nifty "tricks" along with illustrating basic fundamentals like always keeping your attackers in front of you and using one to cut off the other's access. He used to be a bouncer and he's big on illustrating how found weapons (chairs, salt shakers, tables, anything handy) can be used effectively.
 
If the gang members are willing to show up in largely uninhabited areas with weapons in their hands, what's the problem? Officer it was self-defense, I was video taping the local flora and fauna and these three gang bangers showed up with knives and clubs, see right there in the video.....
 
get him into a wrestling program. whenever i got in fights or watched, most of the time they go to the ground. this is where wrestler will always win. its mostly easy to learn the basic stuff like shadowing, takedowns and escapes. and it will put him in a program with other athletic males that will stand beside him.
 
-Stay Calm
-Document EVERYTHING (date, time, etc.)
-Buddy system (have your kid stay with a group at all times).
-Know when your kid should be at specific places (if he doesn't show up home by X time you know to go looking).
-Small voice recorder (tape or digital) to record any "encounters".
-You need to find out who these kids are, where they live, who their parents are, and you need to supply this information to the cops.
-Be prepared for an "extinction burst" of activity as you start to fight back. Keep a camera out and ready at home to document any "incidents" (along with your self-defense measures of course).
-Find out who else in your community is going to back you up.
-Print fliers informing the community about the gang activity and post them all over. Get the word out. Like most vermin they hate being in the spotlight.

They could be wannabees, they could be serious. You can't assume so you have to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Above all, like any terrorists you have to give in to their tactics as little as possible.

Oh, and no offense intended but grill YOUR kid as well and see if you can determine why they thought he was gang material. You may not like the answers but it's important to know.
 
Since leaving is not an option your only other choice is how to fight it, not if fight. You're covering the educational bases which is necessary but not sufficient. Expand the circle of activism to include local law enforcement especially your local sheriff and perhaps city law. Make appointments and be prepared to state the facts and make your case that putting one's head in dark places will only make the situation worse. LE must act proactively now and not later. Ideally LE will come down hard and fast on gang related activity. While you are talking to LE explain to them the concept of higher good. They will know exactly what your are discussing. You will protect your child, period and full stop.

Then move on to the county's district attorney or equivilent. He is the one who will prosecute gang perps should LE decide to crack down early and fast. Won't do any good for LE to do their thingy then have the DA wimp out. Press the DA for a committment to proactively thump juvenile offenders.

Contact your state's elected representives and lobby them for more funds for LE and prosecution of gang offenders. They may well be inclined to fund "programs" which may or may not be effective, but the reality is prosecution hard and fast will get notice.

Then move on over to media local, state and national. Start working them for coverage of the problem. Media is helpful but can not be trusted. Take the coverage as it comes but do not limit your activism to the media. It is just too easily distracted from your agenda.

Have a heart to heart talk with your son. He was approached by a gang for a reason. Find out what that reason is. You will reduce your effectiveness to zero of you are being undercut by your son's actions and / or dress.

Get a concealed carry permit and pack heat. You will be targeted if you become an activist.

You can not assume the problem will get better or go away if you do nothing. I used to live in a city in which the city fathers suffer a severe case of cranial-rectal inversion. The attitude is "Gang? What gang. We don't have graffitti on the walls and road", yet the city has suffered an epidemic of random violence by young offendes. The city is on the verge of an explosion of gang violence and they have been told so. The city fathers do not want to deal with it.

One other point. Get smart of how gangs work. Scads of books were written. Start reading. This is a problem that came to you. You can not avoid it.
 
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Another thing you can look into getting him is a cheap pen knife, looks like a pen and can write, but you pull the top off and it's a knife.





I see bad things happening with this , like , the perp's parents living in your house after the law suit is settled .
 
If it were just a problem at school then I would suggest going through steps that let the school know they will be held liable for any failure on their part to protect your kid while there. But it sounds like this is a "town" issue, not just at school.

Pulling a knife on your son is a serious crime and a real threat. I side with 308Win and others that you have to make a strong stand. It is better to let the adversary know as early as possible that if they bring the fight to your family then you will respond 10 times in kind. If they have any weakness this may be enough to encourage them to back off or move on elsewhere.

As others have said, I would tag along with my son more often until you can see these kids, and then get in their face and let them know they will not be dealing with just your son. If there is any problem you will be visiting them. If you already know who they are and where they live that might make more impact if you can mention their home locations.

I would do this in a manner that does not cross the legal line of threat, but that clearly implies you are likely to go beyond legal limits and do whatever is necessary to punish them. I would also visit their homes and let their parents know what their kids are doing and that there will be hell to pay if they do not reign them in quick.

That is all at the personal level, which is the most important. You need to prepare for the worst as well. The key to winning a fight is to first know that you are in one, then anticipate the worst, prepare for it and already have your actions planned out. I would carefully run through scenarios and make sure you know exactly how far you will go, and what will trigger that response. Never bluff. When you threaten to react make sure you absolutely will do so. Identifying and documenting these other kids, where they live, who their parents are, etc. is crucial for going public and letting them know they are not hiding anything.

On the public side I would work with the school and police as much as possible. Also try to organize a citizens group. Appeal to their self interest. If we all act now we can run this problem out of town (maybe the kids and parents, but mostly their behavior). If not then we will all be seeing more violence, more kids intimidated and recruited and more drugs showing up and thefts occurring (gangs need money). Good idea to carry a camera or video cam with you as much as possible and start documenting as much evidence as you can on these specific kids and gang activity in general in your town. Your presentation to the school, police, and fellow citizens will be stronger if you have pictures of graffiti, corners taken over by gangsta looking kids, etc. Save news articles about youth crime in your town, too.

This would be a good time to research any successes other towns have had. The main thing is to do as much as you can to work within the law, while letting the "gangstas" and their parents know that you will do what is needed one way or the other. The clear message you want to communicate to everyone is that it is in each of their best interests to terminate this activity quickly or else they will be suffering far worse consequences. It is not just your problem.

Also agree with having a serious talk with your own son. Make sure he understands you will stand up for him and do some serious things if it escalates any more. You are totally on his side but he also needs to be 100% truthful with you or you may act on bad information that could cause a lot of its own problems. He also needs to think through with you how he can responds in various situations. Cell phone with camera and GPS is a good idea. Make sure he always lets you know where he is and who he is with. If three guys threatened him before that kind of gives you an idea the ratio they like to have in their favor. If he was with 2-3 other buddies the gang would need to have 9-12 guys to have the same favorable ratio. His odds go up tremendously with just 1-3 friends around. If they all have cell phones with cameras then they have a lot more working against them.

Is there anything in your son's behavior that would have singled him out for special attention? Other than rejecting the gang, does he hang out alone? Hang out in the wrong places? He shouldn't have to avoid the park and other public places, but he should not be looking for trouble either.

Your son also needs to understand how to defend and fight. Never fight on their terms. Run when necessary, back off slowly at other times. But also when to make a stand (better armed, numbers on your side, on ground of your choosing, and a time of your choosing).

I was in a small town in Iowa and the vandals of the town were kids of the town leaders. The police refused to do anything because they were under 18. They kind of implied that they expected you to take care of your own situation. I confronted a bunch of them after they vandalized some of my property and let them know I would hunt them down next time(nothing specific about what I would do). They were full of big talk but nothing ever happened to us after that either.

All I know from competitive sports and my own confrontations as a kid and an adult is that if you choose to stand you want to make clear that you will respond with overwhelming force in every means possible: legal, publicity, and if necessary personal violence. Any wanna-bes will back down in the face of grave and sure consequences. Anyone that does not back down after that you will know means you serious harm and you had better be ready to act on your words.

A massive, all out pre-emptive campaign can actually make the whole thing go away much more quickly. A gradual, proportional response is likely to drag this out with no clear cut "crossing the line" until it is too late. For me the knife puts this over the line and requires an all out response on every front possible. Hopefully other families will get on the band wagon and this problem can be nipped in the bud for the whole town. If not, the gang at least needs to know that your family or part of town is off limits.
 
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Quick thinking and calm pleasant (not passive) demeanor is what worked for me ten years ago as a teen in central CA. If everybody in school likes you, then there isn't really much chance for anybody under 18 in a small town to give you trouble. Tell him to be more social, get involved in sports at school. Being fearful of someone gives them the edge.

Karate is good for confidence, but for self-defense? I have doubts that it ever really work for a kid against three guys with weapons. Where I grew up there was a Police Activities League or PAL, on of the thinks they did was open a free boxing gym downtown. I learned how to box and I hung out with every Mexican kid in town. They knew where I was coming from and I them. No problems.
 
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"Wow, I guess it's everywhere now. When I went to HS (which wasn't that long ago), we were prep and didn't have gangs, but the school was in a "Crip" territory...."

Please define "prep". Or did you mean perp?
 
PREP kids = kids who are intently college bound. PREP meaning much preparation for college such as private classes for the SAT/SATII/ACT exams, summer school for classes meant to be claimed as college credit, advanced placement courses in high school for college credit, summer camps (Computer science, math, physics and etc.) community service to boost a resume, work experience and of course the application process, visiting campuses, interviewing with alumni to boost acceptance chances. All of which is a PITA, but I had to do....commonly interchangable with geek :D
 
:rolleyes: lol as much as some kids want to live fantasies, alot of other people want to live "walking tall" type fantasies. ebk isnt a gang, or any branch of any gang. any gang can say that, and it means you dont have allies, you kill everybody .

uuh, most music on mtv is talking about buying clothes, and cars, i dont see how that could fuel gangs. there is no music or artist that i would say makes violent music that has been on mtv in the last 10 years.
 
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all martial arts do is prepare you for one thing--beating an unarmed assailant in a one on one fight. In your son's case, he had *three* armed attackers. Before the BJJ,MT,whatever guys jump all over me, I've seen a lot of the disarming techniques in person and on instructionals, and I'd never try one of them in real life unless my back was against the wall and I was unarmed.

not ALL martial arts, thats a big statement. Sounds more like the ever popular martial sports. I hear what you are saying, but there are methods of going about dealing with multiple opponents that have sound doctrine, strategy, and tactics.

ST
 
lol as much as some kids want to live fantasies, alot of other people want to live "walking tall" type fantasies. ebk isnt a gang, or any branch of any gang. any gang can say that, and it means you dont have allies, you kill everybody .

uuh, most music on mtv is talking about buying clothes, and cars, i dont see how that could fuel gangs. there is no music or artist that i would say makes violent music that has been on mtv in the last 10 years.

Can somebody translate? I've read the words twice but with the mangled grammar I just can't figure out what the poster is actually trying to say. Maybe I've just crossed the great geezer divide or something.
 
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This is a community issue so I'd do my best to get the entire community involved.

I would attempt to put together the biggest community meeting ever, involving as many of the 1500 residents as possible.

See if your local TV & radio station(s) will air a quick spot (i.e., donate for public service) regarding a town meeting where local citizens can discuss how to tackle the gang problem.

Involve local business leaders who might not mind giving a little back to the community in the form of donations for a mass mailing (i.e., paper, copier, postage), or for equipment needed for a large meeting (i.e., microphone, small stage, speakers, PA system...etc).

Ask representatives from law enforcement and gang task forces to attend so that they might lend their insight, advice, and expertise in dealing with this sort of infestation.

Good luck.
 
Ze,
I think he is stating that Nazi gangs are for taking out other gangs????but I have no idea either.
In reading this I know a lot of you say that I am crazy for telling him to move and I can respect where you are coming from. I don't know how severe the situation is so I am taking it at maximum severity and going from there.
Now, dad may want to stay and fight but for pete's sake if your kid is in this much danger you may seriously want to think about sending him to a relative to go to school or send him to a private school somewhere or something along those lines.
Again, it's a noble thing to stand up for your community however of all these posters stating "No way I'd move" I question if they have been targeted by a gang or more importantly had a son/daughter targeted.
 
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Ace,
I am going out on a limb here but you sound racist yourself. You think the Nazi gangs aren't racist? And the holocaust didn't happen either, right President Tom?
Go push your agenda somewhere else because I doubt it will be accepted here and if it is accepted here I am in the wrong place.
Cold beer, hot peanuts!
 
Personal Experience

I had to deal with bullies as a daily thing as a kid.

They tended, however, to be one-on-one encounters with the occasional flunkie along for the ride.

I never got up the nerve to fight back, so I suffered for eight years.

My son, however, is a little more savvy on that.

He never came home with tales of harassment, and he seemed to get along with the other guys his age.

In his Junior year of high school, though, we had a conversation where I discovered he'd just been "handling" things himself. A group of guys would start something. He would pick the big guy and "call him out" for an after-school appointment. He kept it short and sweet, and always shook hands with the kid he'd just decked.

Word got out, and "they" just left him alone.

Now, that may not work for everyone, especially if the gang works as a pack and/or is armed.

Letting it go unchecked sucks. Eight years of that crap. I had a classmate who, while physically smaller than I, beat the snot out of anyone stupid enough to pick a fight with him. He went through school largely unmolested, while I became a bully-magnet.

You can't just let it go.

One way or another, using adults, cops, or whatever -- and someone who can make a credible threat of "you can't hide from me, punk" -- the "gangers" need to have the opportunity to re-evaluate their choice of hobbies.

It needs to be clear to them that nobody cares what kind of childhood they had, nobody cares what their girlfriend thinks, and nobody cares what they think is cool; what matters is that their health and welfare depends on their making really sure that nothing bad happens to people who don't want to play their game or be their friends.

I don't have enough context for a good approach, but let me offer this: it's a bad idea to mess with a crazy man.
 
ZeSpectre

Can somebody translate?
Excuse me, I understand some dialects of Mushbrain. Perhaps I can help...


ace99

lol as much as some kids want to live fantasies, alot of other people want to live "walking tall" type fantasies. ebk isnt a gang, or any branch of any gang. any gang can say that, and it means you dont have allies, you kill everybody .
The gist of that statement is that: 1) while the kids are most likely just pretending to be gangsters, many responders here are coming off as being overly influenced by vigilante-type movies, and 2)The "ebk" reference pertains more to a philosophy or creed than to a cultural subset.


ace99

uuh, most music on mtv is talking about buying clothes, and cars, i dont see how that could fuel gangs. there is no music or artist that i would say makes violent music that has been on mtv in the last 10 years.
Here, the poster is claiming that there has been no popular music advocating or glorifying violence in the last decade and that, in fact, the most popular music now is about glorifying material possessions. He sees no link between the desire for flashy material possessions and gang activity.

IOW, normal Mushbrain thought. :D
 
my two cents

have him carry a good weapon of some sort, 6 cell mag/chucks/kubotan/grizzly bear spray and tell him to use it against the biggest one.
I would say that huge can of fox labs would be best.
 
Well after talking with the school, our mayor, Moriarity's mayor, the Moriarity Chief of Police, the NMSP Gang and Domestic Terrorist unit, Santa Fe Sherrif Torrance county Sherrif I did find some good news. The gist of it is that this EBK gang is NOT the real one out of the upper midwest and west coast. It is local kids trying to make a mark. One is moderately dangerous, IE a couple of assault charges but there is no real leader. So far they are a disorganized mob. I have been talking to the local and state LEO and trying to get them to help me to stop it. SInce they are not fully formed or cohesive they are an easy target. So far not to much luck except at the school. A couple have been identified but at my request no expulsion......yet. Next Wednesday, after talking with the mayor of Edgewood I am speaking to the town council about this new threat and try to get support from the community. Parental pressure and the pressure of the town on the council and the local LEO may help. I know they have a lot to do. Santa Fe County is almost the size of Delaware Or Rhode Island and there is not a lot or enough LEO here. But if I can get citizens to back this and shut down this wannabe gang before they get stronger we do have a good chance of sending a message to other wannabes, Edgewood does not welcome nor tolerate this sort of behavior.
I do carry every day and have for years. New Mexico is an open carry state. Every officer I have dealt with has yet to mention my side arm. So my G21 and backup mags go every where I go. If my Glock is not allowed then I don't need to be in there.

Folks I do thank each and every one of you for the advice I have got these last few days. I don't know if I can repay you except for a big THANK YOU from my family and myself.

Chuck
 
My 2 cents on getting involved in some sort of unarmed fighting training:


I've seen a number of posts suggesting that the kid get involved in Martial Arts/ Wrestling, etc. Overall, I think every child should have some martial arts training. There are a lot of physical and emotional benefits to it.

However...

Suggesting getting into martial arts to deal with this situation is short-sighted-- and could be irresponsible. It may well be the catalyst to getting the boy killed.

I have my black belt, and I worked my way through 5 years of college (changed major) teaching martial arts. My entire spare time was devoted to full contact kickboxing on a competative level. So does that make me an expert? No...it means I've seen a lot of different types of people who come to the martial arts for different reasons.

Let me say this pointedly:

If there is a danger NOW, it is already TOO LATE to address it with martial arts training. I've seen a LOT of people take a few months of martial arts and start believing they can handle anything. These people usually get thier butts handed to them soon afterward. In the case of gang members, it is likely that a butt-whipping is the most FAVORABLE of the possible options.

People. It takes significant training and dedication to become good at a martial art. Now, I am not one of those that believe that you have to spend 5 to 10 years training before you can have enough skill to do anything. Frankly, I have had students who have become formitable fighters in a relatively short period of time. Most aren't like that.

Getting a LITTLE training can be a dangerious thing. Now, if you are backed into a corner and have no choice-- sure, it's all you have. But here is where you get into trouble: If you DO have a chance to get away from the danger, and confidence in less-than-stellar skills causes you to decide to STAY and make a stand when you COULD have gotten away. Some lessons are finals.

This brings me to another point. Personality.

I've met a lot of different types of people coming to the martial arts. Some people frankly DO NOT have the 'grit" inside to be a good fighter in a reasonable period of time. Sure, it can be developed over time, but typically it isn't there. Those persons will hesitate, and hesitation will get you hurt or even killed. These persons will not commit fully to offensive strikes. That slows the strikes, and telegraphs the move. Again, that will get you hurt or killed.

Over my 20 years of experience, I have met a few students who developed that "grit" early on-- or either walked in the door with it. Frankly, I was one of those when I started, if I am to believe my instructor. In a way, this personality trait will also cause problems. Most of the altercations I've seen with students has been with this type of student. Frankly, they know they are good, have not mastered the concepts of WHEN to fight, and have no reservations about it. Basically, a lot go looking for a fight-- and find it. (yes, I was young and stupid once, too.)

Another type of student is one I usually feel sorry for. They are the ones that have ZERO interest in the martial arts, but their parents get them in it. These students aren't really there-- they are just marking time until they get picked up after class. I've seen a lot of these students actually START to have problems with other kids AFTER they start taking karate or other martial arts. Why? The other kids learn they are taking it, and start trying to start something as a method of making themselves feel better, or to take the other kid down a percieved notch.


Sorry this is so long winded. I just thought there should be more consideration to beliving that an immediate problem can be solved by enrolling in martial arts now.

I'd say that enrolling in martial arts is beneficial for everyone-- but not to fix a problem you are currently having. There is even a possiblity that it can make things WORSE if the student develops the wrong attitude, becomes over confident, or makes it too widely know that he is taking martial arts.


Just something to think about from my own experiences and observations.


John
 
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