Hi Point pistols, well worth the money!

[sigarms228]

While I am glad there are firearms available for people who can absolutely not afford anything more than their price point, Hi-Point pistols are not my cup of tea and there are far better pistols for not that much more these days new and used.

 

[Ernie Bass]

I can afford just about most guns now made, but I just might get one for the heck of it in 45.cal. My brother who lives across the Great Divide loves his collection of CZ's. Every time I talk to him, he loves to talk about how much he loves them. I then ask him about his Hi point that he has had for years and he always laughs and say's "You, know something, that old Ugly Sucker just keeps running and running."
Yep, I might just get one for the Heck of it. Maybe the rifle. I see them all the time at my range and the guys there seem to like them. Why not? If they work and they seem to do that just fine.
And I would imagine a bullet from one of them, would kill you just as good as one from a Dan Wesson.

 

[MedWheeler]

Bikerdoc writes:

nope, law abiding is the key word, if im getting a trace then it is a crime gun.

I don't know if it's your decision what the shop carries but, if it wasn't, and you were required to carry them, would you then be forced to pre-judge the customers when they came in?

I'm sure there isn't a sign on the shop's door reading "We do not stock 'thug-price guns'. We apologize for the inconvenience.".

 

[De Facto]

We refuse to carry them at the store anymore.
Yes they are reliable and accurate, BUT at that price point they attract troublesome buyers
Almost All the traces from the ATF and local PD, were about Hi Points.
Get the same response and problems from the the sub $300 Taurus G2C - good gun, bad owner.

If you don't mind me asking, how many hipoints would you typically sell in a year? And how many trace requests would your store receive?

My personal experience with hipoints has been that they work well for what they are, but I was spoilt by shooting nicer guns first. I may collect a few to pass out to my nongun owning family/friends if societal unrest were to become an issue.

 

[bikerdoc]

Bikerdoc writes:



I don't know if it's your decision what the shop carries but, if it wasn't, and you were required to carry them, would you then be forced to pre-judge the customers when they came in?

I'm sure there isn't a sign on the shop's door reading "We do not stock 'thug-price guns'. We apologize for the inconvenience.".

@MedWheeler, my friend
I don't prejudge any customer, but I looked it up today. In the year before we stopped selling them we had 14 requests for traces from the ATF- 11 were for Bipoints .
I am one of 3 involved in that unanimous decision.
There was no common denominator among the buyers and 7 were for guns that were resold. 2 of those were seized out of state.

 

[Waveski]

I don't prejudge any customer.....

But using good judgement is the responsible thing to do. BikerDoc said nothing about prejudgement , which would be subjective , he did cite law enforcement traces , which are factual. 11 of 14 - hard to ignore those numbers.

Whenever I list an item for sale on Armslist I end the listing with this statement : "I reserve the right of refusal to sell." If my radar registers any level of concern I exercise that right.

 

[whm1974]

So why doesn't Hi-Point doesn't have one in .22 LR? Zamak-3 Alloy way too heavy for .22 LR?

 

[KevininPa]

This is why I recommend Hi-Points as nightstand guns. Unless you're packing around your nightstand carrying the HP around isn't part of the concept. It's totally for defensive purposes in the house. The sights are so bad I wouldn't recommend using it for target practice, so no one is likely to be carrying it around with a round in the chamber and shooting much centerfire ammo out of it anyway.

I tell people that the one thing that someone can buy that is most similar to a completely defensive gun is a fire extinguisher. You buy it hoping to never have to use it but if you do you want it to work.

If you're carrying a Hi-Point, you need a holster the size of a night stand. That being said, I had one. Wish I kept it. Would've made a good car/truck gun. Went bang everytime and was reasonably accurate.

And you sure as heck wasn't worried about marring the finish!

 

[Waveski]

Would've made a good car/truck gun.

If I had to put my car/truck out of it's misery I would show it more respect than to use a High Point.

 

[Styx]

But using good judgement is the responsible thing to do. BikerDoc said nothing about prejudgement , which would be subjective , he did cite law enforcement traces , which are factual. 11 of 14 - hard to ignore those numbers.

Whenever I list an item for sale on Armslist I end the listing with this statement : "I reserve the right of refusal to sell." If my radar registers any level of concern I exercise that right.

One has to wonder if those 11 traces were on S&W, Rugers, Glocks, Sig's, CZs, etc, if they would have applied the same logic and decision? Or, did the fact that it's a big, ugly, and heavy gun that has an undeserved bad rep and is more popular with lower income people vs "operators" that played a major role in the decision???

If the same people would have purchased Glocks instead of Hi Points, something times me the they're not going to stop selling Glocks.

 

[Waveski]

One has to wonder if those 11 traces were on S&W, Rugers, Glocks, Sig's, CZs, etc, if they would have applied the same logic and decision?

If the same people would have purchased Glocks instead of Hi Points,

But - that was not the case. You have taken an actual occurrence and spun it into a skewed hypothetical.

I feel that I shouldn't have even responded to the hypothetical by Mr Styx , but I was addressed and quoted , so I did. The actual situation involved someone else ; I did comment on it.
In keeping with that , and as previously stated , I had predetermined to stay out of this discussion , but could not resist responding to the claim that a Hi Point is more accurate than a S&W model 10. Stating that a Hi Point is in any way superior to the most successful handgun in the history of firearms just begs a response. I caved. (did I fall into a trap?)

That stated , here's what I think:
-The Hi Point pistol is a decent value. I did say "value" - not "as good as" or "better than" X , Y or Z. A gun that is proven to reliably function for a very small cash outlay has it's place in the market. Please note that those facts do not make me want to own a Hi Point - To each his own.

- Anyone selling firearms in any setting or situation has a responsibility to refrain from arming a person who is suspected of having ill intent.


"And that's the way it is..."

Walter Cronkite

 

[whm1974]

All I can say is that I shot my .45 ACP Hi-Point with much better groups with far lower recoil then my S&W Model 10 .38 Special with moderate reloads. I used both standard and +P loads in the Hi-Point and the gun did equally well with both.

 

[FlSwampRat]

Better groupers then my .38 Special S&W Model 10 and the XD-9 I used to own.

I feel that I shouldn't have even responded to the hypothetical by Mr Styx , but I was addressed and quoted , so I did. The actual situation involved someone else ; I did comment on it.
In keeping with that , and as previously stated , I had predetermined to stay out of this discussion , but could not resist responding to the claim that a Hi Point is more accurate than a S&W model 10. Stating that a Hi Point is in any way
superior to the most successful handgun in the history of firearms just begs a response. I caved. (did I fall into a trap?)

The thing is here, you might both be correct. Waveski, you're speaking in generalities, whm1974 is speaking in specifics. Specifically one gun. His gun. Have you seen groups fired by that specific Model 10? There's a myriad of reasons why that gun might be less accurate than most any other gun around. He was most certainly not painting every Model 10 as less accurate in that post.

Rather like saying "My Chevy is faster than my Ford" when the Ford has a stuck valve or other mechanical problem.

If I had to put my car/truck out of it's misery I would show it more respect than to use a High Point.

Clearly you dislike Hi-Points, which is fine. But you can't deny they work well, they've been torture tested by several folks on You tube and, in general, of all the budget priced guns we've looked at to have something in that price point, seem to be a bit of alright. As a gun for that niche market, they do fill the bill.

 

[whm1974]

The thing is here, you might both be correct.
Clearly you dislike Hi-Points, which is fine. But you can't deny they work well, they've been torture tested by several folks on You tube and, in general, of all the budget priced guns we've looked at to have something in that price point, seem to be a bit of alright. As a gun for that niche market, they do fill the bill.

I only owned one and shot two of .45 Hi-Points, mine and a friend who also brought his at the same time from the same shop. At first he had problems with FTF but after I slapped the gun's magazine a few times against the palm of my hands that issue was solved.

 

[Antihero]

That is the first bad thing I've heard about Hi-Points. Then again most owners of this brand tend to have .380, 9mmx19, or even .45 ACP , not some very pressure pistol round based of a High Power handgun hunting cartridge...

My experience with a few handguns chambered in .40 S&W is that there is more uncomfortable felt recoil and muzzle flip then my previous Hi-Point in .45 ACP.

I very highly doubt that's the first bad thing you've heard about hi points, even in this thread there's not favorable opinions.

The 40 isn't the 10mm at all really, but 40s do have an odd snappy recoil.

I do like my carbine quite a lot.....but this pistol turned me off them forever

 

[FlSwampRat]

I do like my carbine quite a lot.....

We sometimes get in a carbine, usually in 9mm. The 9mm handgun's magazine is shorter than the carbine's mag and I thought maybe you could use a carbine mag in the pistol like a Glock 17 mag in a Glock 19, but nope, didn't work.
The two things I don't underestand about Hi-Point have to do with their mags. Since most of the need for all that chunkiness is the slide and the area on the frame just under said slide, why not use all that grip fatness to make a double stack mag, at least on the 9 and 380? And, bearing in mind what I said above, why not have mag interchangeability?

 

[Jimfern]

I do occasionally get tempted to pick up a used carbine for fun, but haven't done it yet.

 

[FlSwampRat]

I do occasionally get tempted to pick up a used carbine for fun, but haven't done it yet.

I was very tempted but the whole magazine issue turned me off. Ended up with an Extar EP-9. Glock mag capability and good reviews sold me on it.

 

[Ernie Bass]

It would seem that in the fact that many are buying firearms and many first time buyers then a Hi Point might just be a viable solution. Many of these folks are not gun enthusiast. Look at even good times. My guess is the vast majority of gun owners do not really shoot very much anyway. Over the years I have met so many that just don't.
Ok,NOW, many folks unemployed, cut backs, ranges closed, and it might just get worse. Many of these folks are wanting protection at the least cost. Food comes first. So take a Hipoint, say a big 380. No recoil to speak of, they are reliable, big grip and should be easy to control. And a very little cost.
A gun to many is just a tool.
I would guess a bullet from a Hi Point would cause as much damage from a Hi End. Just that the HI END does it with a lot more class. Great for the shooter, not much for the person shot. I doubt he would really give a fig what you just shot him with.

 

[whm1974]

It would seem that in the fact that many are buying firearms and many first time buyers then a Hi Point might just be a viable solution. Many of these folks are not gun enthusiast. Look at even good times. My guess is the vast majority do not really shoot very much. Over the years I have met so many that just don't. Ok,NOW, many folks unemployed, cut backs, ranges closed, and it might just get worse. Many of these folks wanting protection at the least cost. Food comes first. So take a Hipoint, say a big 380. No recoil to speak of, they are reliable, big grip and should be easy to control. And a very little cost.
A gun to many is just a tool.
I would guess a bullet from a Hi Point would cause as much damage from a Hi End. Just that the HI END does it with a lot more class. Great for the shooter, not much for the person shot. I doubt he would really give a fig what you just shot him with.

Perfect market for Hi-Point Firearms, in Fact this might be the reason the Company was started in the first place...

 

[MedWheeler]

whm1974

So why doesn't Hi-Point doesn't have one in .22 LR? Zamak-3 Alloy way too heavy for .22 LR?

They do. They just let Jimenez and Phoenix sell them.

 

[MedWheeler]

Bikerdoc writes:

I don't prejudge any customer, but I looked it up today. In the year before we stopped selling them we had 14 requests for traces from the ATF- 11 were for Bipoints [sic] .
I am one of 3 involved in that unanimous decision.
There was no common denominator among the buyers and 7 were for guns that were resold. 2 of those were seized out of state.

Fair enough. I guess it's like the stores that, back when I was a kid, would stop selling eggs and shaving cream a day or two before Halloween.

Easier to pull the "sub-elite" line than try to restrict sales to anyone appearing over a certain age, such as 35, for a handgun. This way, the people you're trying to avoid will be none the wiser. You're certainly not preventing any of them from getting guns, but you're able to avoid being even remotely attached to it.

The Pulse Nightclub mass shooter bought his SiG rifle from a LGS only a couple of miles from me. It took that dealer a long time to live it down.

And thanks for the "my friend" reference. I do have a lot of respect for you, and have enjoyed our previous exchanges here.

 

[Waveski]

Clearly you dislike Hi-Points, which is fine. But you can't deny they work well, they've been torture tested by several folks on You tube and, in general, of all the budget priced guns we've looked at to have something in that price point, seem to be a bit of alright. As a gun for that niche market, they do fill the bill.

I agree with all of the above.

-The Hi Point pistol is a decent value. ..... A gun that is proven to reliably function for a very small cash outlay has it's place in the market. ... To each his own.

 

[whm1974]

Bikerdoc writes:



Fair enough. I guess it's like the stores that, back when I was a kid, would stop selling eggs and shaving cream a day or two before Halloween.

Easier to pull the "sub-elite" line than try to restrict sales to anyone appearing over a certain age, such as 35, for a handgun. This way, the people you're trying to avoid will be none the wiser. You're certainly not preventing any of them from getting guns, but you're able to avoid being even remotely attached to it.

The Pulse Nightclub mass shooter bought his SiG rifle from a LGS only a couple of miles from me. It took that dealer a long time to live it down.

And thanks for the "my friend" reference. I do have a lot of respect for you, and have enjoyed our previous exchanges here.

You have to be 21 to purchase handguns from a FFL, so I don't see the point of the gun store doing this.

 

[MedWheeler]

whm1974 writes:

You have to be 21 to purchase handguns from a FFL, so I don't see the point of the gun store doing this.

They didn't. They chose not to have to deal with the hassle of being potentially caught up in police investigations by discontinuing sales of "thug-priced" hardware, the kinds that tended to turn up more frequently in those investigations.