Hiking Near the US/Mexican Border - What Gun?

[1gkek]

I think the appropriate response here would be "Molon Labe" If you're so serious come and take it.

Well said.

 

[Harve Curry]

Carry a short rifle that you shoot well and a hunting license. That country you can be in trouble and out of handgun range.

 

[Tamlin]

I'm in Tucson, and have done a lot of hiking in Southern AZ, including the Huachucas, the Chiricahuas and the Santa Ritas. I don't want to carry a rifle - I'm a hiker, not a hunter. But I do want a gun that will serve me in an emergency. I have never seen illegal crossers or drug smugglers, but I have seen a couple of bears - both of which ran away when they saw me. I agree with all of the previous posters that the regular illegal border crossers won't give you any trouble - they will avoid you as best they can. The drug smugglers are the ones that pose the biggest threat. But if I'm with a couple of people or even by myself, and come across a load being dropped off/picked up, I would simply turn around and avoid the whole situation. I would feel WAY more nervous if that group saw me armed with an AR. I believe the drug smugglers also want to avoid any kind of firefight, and would be happy to see someone turn and walk away. I haven't read any newspaper articles about hikers being shot by drug smugglers. Anyway, I carry either a .357 magnum or a .45 ACP, depending on where I'm going and what my current mood is. Bears are not large around here, and I feel comfortable with the .357. And yeah, those Camelback backpacks are great for carrying water.

 

[Green Lantern]

This brings to mind the saying, "Just because the law says you CAN does not mean you SHOULD."

There are, of course, no laws against hiking on the US/Mexican border (AKAIK). Just as there are no laws against leaving your doors unlocked all the time, or against going for a midnight stroll in the bad part of town while wearing expensive clothing and jewelry...

In other words, you want my advice....any time you really feel the need for anything other than your routine CCW setup for self-defense, you might wanna re-think what it is you're doing in the first place!

 

[coelacanth]

been hiking and hunting that area for close to 30 years

now. We used a relative's spread near Sonoita as our base( a little north and west of Sierra Vista ) so I guess you could say I've got a little experience. There's been some good advice given here and some not so good IMHO. Here's my take: 1)Don't hike alone. Take a friend or two and/or your dog(s). 2)Always bring a good pair of binoculars. Be proficient in their use and USE them. 3)Be aware of your situation at all times. Several times I have gone completely unnoticed by groups of hikers who have passed within yards of me while chattering among themselves. (see item 1) re: dog(s)) 4)If you choose to go armed take weapons which you are proficient with in the field. If you have not gone shooting in the desert - do so. The ranges will fool you unless you are accustomed to them. Choose your weapons according to what you are most proficient with and adjust your tactics accordingly. My preference is a Winchester lever action (7x30Waters) and a Smith&Wesson Model 10 (.38 spec.). A shotgun and an auto pistol would serve as well or better in a purely defensive mode but lack the ability to engage at range. 5) Keep your hikes short until you know the area. A half day or less is good as this simplifies the logistics and reduces the consequences of any bad judgement on your part.
I hope this helps - its mostly just common sense but it has worked well for us over the years in some of the wilder places here in the southwest.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Hi Green Lantern,

I am curious about your quote-

In other words, you want my advice....any time you really feel the need for anything other than your routine CCW setup for self-defense, you might wanna re-think what it is you're doing in the first place!

It seems to me to be the best bet is to tailor your defenses to the POSSIBLE (however improbable) threats you may face, then balance that choice with the need for concealability/portability.

Why would be it better for a hiker to hit the woods with his/her PM9 when a
4" Model 629 would be a more prudent choice?

or conversely

Should the hiker never hit the woods because it presents a unnecessary increase in potential threat?

Am I exposing my family to unacceptable risk by going camping in an area where it makes sense to throw the SKS or riot gun in the trailer "just in case"?

I don't mean to sound critical, I am just curious if you ever explore this country's non-urban "wild places", and if you do, do you carry anything more that your CCW weapon?

Hunter

 

[Aztlan]

take what we have it; look at CA


Aztlan

 

[roscoe]

I go backpacking in Cabaza Prieta every so often, and take the family car camping there and in the area of Highway 8. In fact, we were camping there this weekend, in the desert west of Sundad. I would encourage you to enjoy yourself and not be preoccupied with the danger of smugglers or illegals/coyotes. They will generally do anything to avoid contact.

However, I would also encourage you to take an appropriate firearm. I carry a CZ 75 or Service Six (.357) when hiking solo, and add a .223 Saiga when car camping with the family. I also have a dog, who does not mind barking at strangers, when car camping with my wife and kids. Those seem like appropriate steps, but we don't obsess over the security issue. We cooked hot dogs and marshmallows over the fire and had a great time, and I never worried a bit.

You will periodically run into the Border Patrol. Flag them down and ask them for the skinny. They get pretty lonely out there and usually are not averse to conversation.

Arizona has some great wilderness, and some of it is pretty wild. Enjoy yourself, but keep your eyes open.

I just wanted to add that some folks really appear to be afraid of any activity that might increase their exposure to risk at all. I find that attitude kind of strange and sad. And remember the facts: you are in greater danger driving to the trailhead than hiking along the border. With all the backpackers who hike Cabeza Prieta, Organpipe, and the rest of the border areas, when was the last time you heard of one killed? I say, be prudent, carry the gun, and go out there and see the world!

 

[takhtakaal]

take what we have it; look at CA

Stop trolling.

 

[Aztlan]

I am not trolling I have been A member for 4 year.


Aztlan

 

[psyopspec]

Before this thread gets completely derailed, I want to thank everyone who responded with constructive advice. More than just the firearm suggestions, knowledge is power and I appreciate those that contributed their two cents on the situation.

Aztlan, tipping the apple cart was completely uncalled for, and it's hard to blame those that don't take kindly to your comments.

 

[Deernut]

Border Bandits

I have been hunting and working as a biologist in SE AZ for 16 years and I have seen the drug and people smuggling increase exponentially in the last 10 years. I have run into drug smugglers and illegal immigrants a lot. We generally hide from them all, and let them pass. There have been times where they panicked and hide in the trees until dark. That's not a great scenario because that means me and them are walking out in the dark on the same trails (hence the hiding!). I have not had a face-to-face, but many encounters at a distance. We generally try to look very non-military (avoiding desert digital camo, etc), still they seem very paranoid and nervous. You do have to keep your eyes open and avoid them. Black clothing is a bad sign, as is BIG packs -- they all have small packs with them.

If I am hunting with a bolt action rifle I have a 1911 or SA XD45 compact with spare 13-rd mag concealed. If I'm just out with the kids jackrabbit hunting or something else, I have a full-size .45 on my waist and an Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster in my cargo pocket. Alertness and avoidance is the key. My son asked why I had a .45 for jackrabbit hunting and I said "In case someone tries to 'Jack' our Jacks."

On a deer hunt near Sasabe I found 3 different packages of Cocaine on the same hunt and Border Bandits killed a guy the week after our hunt ended right on the area were glassing for deer. (I called friends in Customs about the Coke BTW).

Here's what you want to hide from:



This is not as dangerous (people smuggling), but it doesn't hurt to be well-armed and unnoticed....We thought for sure it was a drug deal unfolding, but it was human smugglers being cautious in scouting the area before hand.


JIM

 

[denfoote]

I've never been hiking that far south, but I have done the Saddlebacks and Superstitions. Like I stated before, I usually hoof a .357mag revolver and if I feel the need for more firepower, I take my Marlin 36, 30-30.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Ditto to what denfoote said. A 357 and a 30-30, or 357 levergun.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

.270 rifle

We have all heard stories of Americans accidentally straying
across the border into Mexico while carrying a military
valiber weapon and ending up doing hard time in a Mex Fed.

Mexico is paranoid about revolutions and views anything
in a military caliber with grave suspicion: 9mm Parabellum,
.45 ACP, .30-06, .223 you get the picture.

Think it was Jack O'Connor who promoted the .270 as
doing everything the .30-06 can do, with a flatter trajectory.
He left out it was a non-military caliber.

 

[Crash_Test_Dhimmi]

.45 is a good all around round for that area. There are mountain lions and drug runners in the area, so you may want something with some power behind it.

Im in love with my H&K .45 USP Compact Tactical. Conceals nicely, has alot of power.

- Just make sure you do your armed/hiking outside of the Fort Huachuca Military Reservation, not inside, unless the laws changed since ive been there. (check all local/federal/military laws) (Garden Canyon is beautiful) (do what your rank can handle the CSM there was known to bow hunt from the back of his jeep wrangler on post a while back)

-Yes, Alot of illegals use the Huachuca mountains as a guide to enter the country, we came across a number of them "On Post" on their way north. If you have reception call the MP's, BP's, or minutemen to radio it in, or to get them.

- Bring lots of food/water with you, storms can hit the canyon, causing flash floods and other inconveniences, prepare for contingencies. Tell your "battle buddy" where youre going or bring him with you. If you get lost or snowed in, you can eat him.
jk, you will not get snowed in this late in the year.

-If you live on post, make sure your weapon is properly stored (arms room), if your offpost, then more power to you. (sierra carmicheal one bedroom apts, 350$ a month, cant beat that)

Drink one for me at the hotel parties there. Good times, Fuzzy memories.

Always Out Front

 

[Treo]

Occupied Atzlan ( And it's gonna stay that way)

QUOTE: " Atzlan, tipping the applecart was completely uncalled for, and it's hard to blame those that don't take kindly to your comments"

I'm curious how you justify that statement given that you also are calling the area "Occupied Atzlan"? I'm also curious how you justify that stance given that your screen name suggests that you are in the American Army.

 

[Colt46]

I'd opt for a rifle

It does telegraph you being armed a lot farther than a handgun. But handgun range is too close for what the worst situation might offer.
A lever action is quite handy. An AR or something Evil looking might suggest you are some kind of LE.
Be aware that Jaguars(not just in McDonald's drive throughs)have recently been migrating from Mexico.

 

[Green Lantern]

Hi Green Lantern,

I am curious about your quote-

Quote:
In other words, you want my advice....any time you really feel the need for anything other than your routine CCW setup for self-defense, you might wanna re-think what it is you're doing in the first place!
It seems to me to be the best bet is to tailor your defenses to the POSSIBLE (however improbable) threats you may face, then balance that choice with the need for concealability/portability.

Why would be it better for a hiker to hit the woods with his/her PM9 when a
4" Model 629 would be a more prudent choice?

or conversely

Should the hiker never hit the woods because it presents a unnecessary increase in potential threat?

Am I exposing my family to unacceptable risk by going camping in an area where it makes sense to throw the SKS or riot gun in the trailer "just in case"?

I don't mean to sound critical, I am just curious if you ever explore this country's non-urban "wild places", and if you do, do you carry anything more that your CCW weapon?

Hunter

Fair point - I don't hit the wilds as often as I should, but it's more due to lack of time than the "increased risk" of four-legged threats - and NO-legged ones (snakes).

My main concern with hiking at the US-Mexico border isn't the wildlife, it's the potential threat from drug smugglers, or maybe even "two-legged" coyotes. Border crossers just coming here for work shouldn't pose much of a threat, and I don't really know enough about the wildlife there to comment...

 

[RLsnow]

On second thought, leave the G3 at home and bring the Lee Enfield instead :O

 

[roscoe]

As a non-firearm aside, you should do your hike pretty soon. The heat will be prohibitive in a couple of weeks. As always, water will be more important than your firearm.

When I leave my truck to hike, I leave a gallon of water on the hood and pull out the coil wire. You may save a life, but they will not be able to start your truck. And they may view your leaving the water as a reason not to bother your truck.

 

[Andrewsky]

I'm usually a big proponent of rifles but I don't think it's necessary in this case. Bring lots of water and have the appropriate clothing (it gets cold at night in the winter in AZ!).

Generally if your exercise requires that you carry a rifle, you ought to start thinking about buying a treadmill.

 

[redneckrepairs]

First off i dont hike , heck i have enough problem hauling my butt around after a mile or two without a pack . With that being said everywhere i go that it is legal i have a ccw, and honestly i wouldnt see why to carry any more than the slimline 9mm i carry every day . I wouldn't be out there to hunt down dope dealers , nor would they me , in the absolute worst case i might have to shoot someone , but would not need to get into any kind of protacted firefight , nor fire at hundreds of yards . I would think that almost any pistol suited for ccw and a couple of reloads would serve the bill fine and without an undue weight penalty .

 

[Deernut]

ICE Report

Here's a report that has been circulating among hunters in SE Arizona. It is authentic.

JIM
__________________________________________
The Border Patrol's Tucson, Ariz., sector, which encompasses most of the Coronado National Forest, has the highest incidence of cross-border violators in the nation. Nearly 500,000 illegal aliens were apprehended last year -- more than 30,000 a month. In addition, nearly 100,000 pounds of marijuana, with a street value of $200 million, was seized as it was hauled through the Coronado National Forest.

Last month, the Border Patrol -- in a single operation targeting illegal aliens causing what Forest Service officials called "significant damage" to the Coronado National Forest -- apprehended more than 300 illegals along just a three-mile section of U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona and confiscated 600 pounds of marijuana in a 10-day period.

At least five fires were set below a Border Patrol observation post during the operation in an effort to burn the agents out, according to a Forest Service report. The fires were extinguished, and no one was arrested.

Wildfires are being set by alien and drug smugglers, authorities said, to create a diversion in an attempt to gain undetected access across the border. The fires correspond to a dramatic rise in assaults against Border Patrol agents -- up more than 100 percent over last year.

"Criminal activity by both illegal immigrants and citizens in forests near the border is a threat to members of the public trying to use their public lands and to our employees trying to manage these lands," Tina J. Terrell, a Forest Service supervisor told a House Appropriations subcommittee last month.

She said law-enforcement personnel have been assaulted, threatened with weapons and shot at, and their vehicles have been rammed by cross-border violators. Because of the remoteness of the area, she said, timely assistance from other law-enforcement agencies is not always possible, and communications limitations and active interference with radio frequencies in Mexico create additional safety risks.

"Even normal enforcement duties bring our officers in regular contact with cross-border violators," she said. "Our officers risk their lives every day to enforce the law in these remote federally managed lands."

The Coronado National Forest is not the only area along the border being targeted for wildfires. Other blazes also have been set, including two this month near the San Luis, Ariz., port of entry as the result of Molotov cocktails -- one of which barely missed a Border Patrol agent.

Authorities said agents are being targeted by illegal aliens and their smugglers for rock attacks -- including grapefruit-size rocks wrapped in rags, dipped in gasoline and set on fire.

"As larger areas of the border come under operational control, we can expect violence to increase as smuggling operations can no longer operate with impunity and do not have unfettered access to the border for their criminal activities," Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar told a Homeland Security subcommittee this year.

"This explosion of aggression is an indicator how desperate and angry drug and human traffickers are at the increasing disruption of their smuggling routes," he said.

 

[Dienekes]

The local input here is very good. I will not claim to be an expert on the area but spent a career as an INS agent and have my own ideas on prowling around blank spots on the map. In some ways it's not much different from some of the interior of the US; you never know what you might run into and 911 isn't going to do you much good in the boondocks. No matter what anyone says, you're on your own.

Basic is the CCW or work gun you are most familiar with. Low profile, blend in. Optics so you can see. Clothing and equipment as the locals advise. I once thought the long gun unnecessary--even paranoid--but the times have made me rethink that. I now lean towards an M4 type carbine and even a scoped .30 caliber rifle. It's the old "I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it" philosophy.

Unfortunately, this is what you get with bipartisan pandering to special interests and an Administration sin huevos.

It's sickening.