HKs...okay thread

[HGUNHNTR]

^ You've missed the point entirely. No one is urinating in your face....most likely. If you want to find fault with ANY company you will be able too. It just happens to be popular and cool to demonize HK, mostly by folks that can't afford, or don't appreciate quality.

 

[Sam1911]

It just happens to be popular and cool to demonize HK, mostly by folks that can't afford, or don't appreciate quality.

Or, of course, who spent a lot of money on one or more and found that they didn't suit their needs as well or better than other firearms. Or who don't care for the cost/benefit ratio provided by an HK product that seems to perform the bullet delivery function no better than other products, perhaps costing less and with fewer idiosyncrasies.

Not everyone who finds fault has enough experience, wisdom, and understanding to speak with authority on the subject.

Not everyone who finds fault is full of crap, either.

 

[TX1911fan]

HGUNHNTR's comment is the attitude companies like HK bank on. There are many companies that produce a good product for more than it needs to cost, but they continue to make sales because people will pay for the name. I hate Glocks, but it is undeniable they always go bang, and they do it for a really good price. I happen to love my Springfield Armory XD pistols. Never once have I or my friends had a problem. They cost 2/3 of what a comparable HK costs. I assure you, I can afford anything you can, but I choose to spend my dollars where they count, not on buying stuff that does not need to cost as much as it does. The fact that HK treats the US non-military market the way it does, doesn't help much either. But the main point for me is that HKs seem to be too big and too expensive for what you get.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

I would agree TX1911fan, if they were the exact same pistols, but they are not. I dont' care for the finger grooves and grip angle of the Glock, and I really despise the looks and high bore axis of the XD. They are both undeniably robust, reliable bullet delivery systems, but the extra $200 for a grip angle I shoot well, ambi mag release, and confidence I have in HK is worth the cost of admission to me.

Would you buy a pistol you "hate" (Glock) just because it is a good price? Not me, I want a gun that is accurate, reliable, and one that I like.

 

[RainDodger]

It's all simply user-preference.

I own a USP Compact in 9mm. It has never failed in any way. I also have a Kimber Pro (4") in .38 Super. It has never failed either, through about 2,000 rounds now. Which is "better". For who? Who cares? Buy what you like, go to your range and have fun.

My HK remains loaded all the time and available at home. My Kimber is what I carry. Other stuff sits in the safe and might get rotated for carry. Lately I've liked carrying the Hi-Power. I like other stuff more than the HK, but the HK has never failed....

What more is there to say? User pref.

 

[Owen]

I've been hammering away with HK45Cs lately. They are reliable but huge for a compact, accuracy is just ok (awful for a $1k gun) and the ergonomics are mediocre at best.

The paddle mag release takes a little getting used to, but I can live with it.

For $1000 dollars or so, I'd expect more.

Oh, and good luck getting spare parts without a trip to Germany for schooling. Heck, good luck getting spares even if you are factory certified.

 

[Cap'n Jack Burntbeard]

I would buy from Nissan. They have an extensive racing program, and recently brought-over Godzilla undiluted for the USDM. Major props, they respect their performance fanbase.

H&K make cool guns, but refuse to do what Steyer, Sig, FN, ect have done and produce 922r-compliant UMP/G36 rifles. And they have instituted a policy that will make it all-but impossible for civvies to un-neuter the rifles they sell. They are, essentially, urinating in our faces.

Don't forget their MP7, a direct competitor the the FNH P90, Which is sold to the US public as the 922r compliant PS90.

This is no different than the attitude that old man ruger had in the late '80s

"no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…"

It is anti-civilian elitism, plain and simple.

 

[FLAvalanche]

This, I believe, is the proverbial staw-man. What the heck does a grocery chain have to do with converting a rifle? You aren't buying guns from them, you're buying guns from H&K.

I would buy from Nissan. They have an extensive racing program, and recently brought-over Godzilla undiluted for the USDM. Major props, they respect their performance fanbase.

H&K make cool guns, but refuse to do what Steyer, Sig, FN, ect have done and produce 922r-compliant UMP/G36 rifles. And they have instituted a policy that will make it all-but impossible for civvies to un-neuter the rifles they sell. They are, essentially, urinating in our faces.

Nissan loves their performance fanbase? You mean the same Nissan that pulled out of SCORE and any other type of off-road racing leaving dozens of competitors and millions of fans with a blank look on their faces?

 

[sv51macross]

@ Cap'n Jack,

Exactly. H&K refused to establish a manufacturing facility stateside. Understandable, they want to completely devote their resources to LE/Govt sales, and sell the SL-8 and USC as ban-compliant afterthoughts. But no, H&K are going out of their way to refuse to sell spare lowers to civilians. They're not satisfied that we have to do the work ourselves to get a G36/UMP clone, they have to prevent us being able to make any more. As you point out, it seems the H&K execs are channeling the late Willy Ruger.

Oh, and IMO, the MP-7 would look alot sillier with a 16" barrel than the PS90.

Nissan loves their performance fanbase? You mean the same Nissan that pulled out of SCORE and any other type of off-road racing leaving dozens of competitors and millions of fans with a blank look on their faces?

Well, I will admit to having less than a little knowledge about off-road racing, my automotive interest has always been primarily import-oriented track racing.

 

[TX1911fan]

HGUNHUNTER, your points are valid, and those are the points you should be making. If you want to pay extra to get something you like, then fine. That's your prerogative. To try and justify that by saying it is more reliable than other systems is disingenuous. You pay for HK because you like HK. I wouldn't buy a glock because I don't like the grip angle, but they are just as reliable as HK. I happen to like the XD's looks (even more the XDm), and don't think the bore axis is all that much higher than an HK. So, I'll buy that one instead, at 2/3 the price. If I liked the HK then of course, I'd buy one for the extra dough. I shoot 1911s, so of course I know about paying more for a pistol just because I like the way they look/feel/shoot etc.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

No doubt, personal preference is worth $$$ as well.

 

[Shopping A Round]

If it is good enough for Solid Snake, it is good enough for me.

 

[rm86]

Haha good point Shopping, H&K will definitely have Solid Snake to thank when I finally pick up a Mark 23. Until then, my USP Tactical is an awesome gun, yeah it's a couple hundred more than my glock but worth it to me. It seems to me thy only the cool kids have H&Ks

 

[Cap'n Jack Burntbeard]

Oh, and IMO, the MP-7 would look alot sillier with a 16" barrel than the PS90.

As long as you're in a SBR friendly state there is a way to allow the weapon to keep its dignity.

What I miss is the old H&K.
Nowadays its all about regurgitated plastic or aluminum AR-18s, straight blowback submachineguns, and browning action pistols.
Where is their innovation? Back in the day they had the damn near bomb proof roller delay rifles and MGs, gas delay pistols, and the ultimate pie in the sky the caseless ammo G-11.
H&K was a leader, perhaps the leader of the firearms world, but it seems to me that today they are just coasting on the reputation from their glory days.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I have a feeling that the round the MP7 fires, 4.6 x 30, is inherently armor piercing and an american ammo company would have to make the round. One of the problems though is how much flak they would receive from the media about its evil AP round. I would love to have a SBR MP7 (Think concealed under a suit jacket ) but the way HK seems, it would need more reform than our government to get more civilian friendly.

 

[LHRGunslinger]

@FIVETWOSEVEN: I don't know much about the MP7's 4.6mm round but I've done some research on the 5.7x28mm used in the PS90 and standard FMJ ammunition is NOT considered AP. There is a specialty round for LEO/Military use that CAN punch through 48 layers of kevlar or a class IIIa vest at 200 yards. So on the legal end of it I don't believe the 4.6 would be considered inherently AP.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

It wouldn't surprise me if i'm wrong but it seems like it would be, can someone clarify this?

 

[jackpinesavages]

Bizarro thread;

a. I've never seen " a conspiracy " with large groups of posters speaking ill of HK, thinking they are on the anti-HK bandwagon.

b. Pistols are like guitars, motorcycles, and wine; life is too short to hold only one brand as a savior.

c. Our LE Academy has first gen. G17s with each pistol having well over 40,000 rounds on them. No, I'm not a Glock fan-boy, but I know reliable and trustworthy when I shoot it.

d. What was the point here?

 

[yeti]

d. What was the point here?

Kill joy!

The point is; bashing Glock is getting old, and 'H und K's' corporate policys make it easy and fun to pile on them as a diversion every one and a while.

 

[NMGonzo]

I had a HK2000 compact in 9mm

Sold it because I could make a little profit.

Loved that thing.

 

[Hk Dan]

Happygeek, touche Sir, that was hilarious. Yep, my 1993 USP40 did break. Had to have 70,000 rounds through it at the time.

Of the HKs I have, only the Mark 23 and one USP 45 were bought new. I haven't paid more than $500 for a used one; and yes, the NIB models are overpriced. I think the USP45 was just over $800 with tax, and let's not talk about the Mark 23...<g>

 

[jackpinesavages]

"Kill joy!

The point is; bashing Glock is getting old, and 'H und K's' corporate policys make it easy and fun to pile on them as a diversion every one and a while. "


OK, color me blind. What corporate policy? I can order the HKs from any of the discount online order houses-all of them.

Bashing Glock? I don't like the way Glocks fit my hands but as a service weapon they have set a standard, whether I enjoy their ergos or not; the armory where I am training now is a testament to that. There's not much to bash in the Glock-pool except for the Glock fanboys who fire les than 2500 rounds per year.

The post's entirety is a fishing expedition for ...?. Warden, check these licenses for Alzheimer's.

 

[Gun nutt]

Just got me an XD .45 tactical and a Glock 17 in the last month. HK makes mind blowingly high quality weapons, but until they will sell me a semi auto American made UMP, I consider buying HK products to be the equivalent of sending a check to the VPC.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

We aren't really bashing the guns, but the company that makes them. If they don't like me as a civilian, then I don't like them as a company.

 

[uspJ]

I own a USP compact in 40, I absolutely love that gun. I will be the first to admit that there are plenty of other options out there for less money that will do everything the USP does, but that line of thought goes with many guns. I never understood how people will talk trash about the HK pricetags but will throw the same amount down on a 1911 or Sig.

I had bought a second USP compact in 40 (used) last year and turned around and traded it about four months later. It worked just as good as my first but as was posted above the compact models are anything but. I traded it for a new smaller more compact pistol that so far is just as reliable and cost much less than my new USP did. I traded for a Glock 26 which is quickly becoming one of my favorite pistols I own and is my EDC.

Find what you like and shoot the hell out of it....and have fun.