Holster carry of charged and capped percussion revolvers

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The CAS rules and stages are set up around cartridge shooting, I agree with these rules 100%.
Where is Barney Fife?
Do you think our forefathers carried their single shot pistols with the hammer over an unloaded barrel?
 
like you I have no confidence in my ability to carry a fully loaded C&B revolver.
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Well.. For me it isnt an issue so much of confidence in MY ability, as an inherent distrust of any mechanical safety, but ESPECIALLY those primitive ones to be found on C&B revs. I have no problem carrying a modern DA revolver with a transfer bar fully loaded, and sometimes even a DA auto with decocker, but there still remains one or two hairs that stand up on the back of my neck, even with my greater confidence in these modern improvements.

Couple that lack of trust for these well aged safety systems with a GREAT deal of trust in the power of my .44 C&B rounds, and frankly I just dont see the NEED to take the risk, great or small as it may be. Add to all that the constant presence of family and loved ones... and well, to me it just seems fool hardy.

Now... All that being said... I also live in a very remote area where MOST crime consists of petty theft and drug issues. I wont say that this stance wouldnt be rethought if I lived in downtown NYC (HOW anyone CAN live there is beyond me!)... But then, if I did Im fairly sure that I would be carrying one of those modern revs or autos mentioned above... And possibly a rocket launcher as well LOL
 
The hammer has to come back far enough for the hand to move the cylinder in line, even if on an empty when the hammer gets moved enough it will then be on a loaded one.
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It DOESNT actually... At least not on either of my '58s. It needs only come back about 1mm in order for the cylinder to begin moving freely. It wont be in full battery and slamming down on a loaded round that way, but it can easily slip over one,and if it is falling at that moment I can certainly see the danger.

I didnt come to my particular stance without testing it... I would LIKE to carry them fully loaded and have that one extra round, but after seriously examining the notches (as they come from the factory) I simply dont trust them.

As Rodwha said above there is a trick some use with a beveled hammer and I may try it one day, but until then I prefer the unloaded cylinder simply because it would take a bit further travel, both rearward and latterly, for it to be a problem. That tiny bit of travel COULD mean the difference between happy healthy grandchild, and a serious tragedy.
 
Stormson said:
Well.. For me it isnt an issue so much of confidence in MY ability, as an inherent distrust of any mechanical safety, but ESPECIALLY those primitive ones to be found on C&B revs.
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Ability, distrust... all semantics. I have been taught that there is no such thing as a dangerous machine only dangerous operators. My lack of confidence stems from my distrust of not being able to fully utilize the mechanical safety on the Colt clone. Since I don't use that particular machine as a tool for defense it's really a moot point. Quite frankly, I don't practice enough with a revolver of any type to feel confident to use it as a tool to protect life, limb or property. That's why I also have a Commander.

In modern times we have a list of present dangers and make a cost/benefit analysis of what risks we are willing to take. In the 1800's when C&B revolvers were high tech those people made similar analysis and loaded the weapons accordingly. While you and I have a very real chance of being attacked by heathens with insidious intent as they were we have other options in defense. When my 2nd great grandfather worked cattle in Montana and Colorado he had a .44 C&B revolver available to him but instead chose to purchase a double action 32-20 handgun. The why for that is lost to time but it's safe to assume he felt the cartridge arm a superior platform for the job at hand.When he did carry the C&B whether he loaded 5 or 6 is also lost to time. I wish I knew but some questions are never answered.
 
When I started shooting cap and ball, I never looked up what the experts said to do. I listened to my God given brain that came up with hammer resting between cylinders. An empty would certainly be safe too, but I don't see any advantage to it. It takes so long to load that when i can finally hoot it, I want to zip off 6 rounds, not 5!

I am shooting modern replicas, 2 navys and a Remington, so I read this thread wondering of the old ones had some feature that did not allow this.
 
... so I read this thread wondering of the old ones had some feature that did not allow this.
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No. Relative to this discussion the original revolvers and new replicas work the same way so far as cap & ball revolvers are concerned.
 
I read in a post on page one that the larger cartridges in a SAA do not leave enough room for the firing pin to rest between them. Had to go check my revolvers. 45 colt should qualify as a size large I would think.

One 72 and a couple 73 Uberti in 45 colt all let the pin in between the case head. Worked fine and a have always carried them that way so I did expect it to fit.

I also use the safety pins on my percussion colt revolvers. I learned to do that back in the early 70s and have never had a problem.
 
In response #4, Noz indicates he has an original 1851 with no safety pins between the chambers. I have a replica 1851 built in the late 50s or early 60s that is the same, no safety pins. If I were to carry that one, it would be with 5 loads and the hammer over the empty chamber. All my other 1851s, 1860s and 1861s have the safety pins. So do all of the Pocket Models I have. A prudent man uses them as he sees fit.

I note there are similar arguments about how to safely carry a 1911 Colt. But that is a different thread for a different section.

Kevin
 
Mr Woody said:
I read in a post on page one that the larger cartridges in a SAA do not leave enough room for the firing pin to rest between them. Had to go check my revolvers. 45 colt should qualify as a size large I would think.

One 72 and a couple 73 Uberti in 45 colt all let the pin in between the case head. Worked fine and a have always carried them that way so I did expect it to fit.

I also use the safety pins on my percussion colt revolvers. I learned to do that back in the early 70s and have never had a problem.
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I am curious how your revolvers are able to leave enough room for the firing pin to rest between the cartridges. Especially on the 1873, none of mine provide that sort of room, either replica or original. The 1872 might have the room but that revolver is not true to the original size of the revolver.

Kevin
 
I was just reading wiki about the gunfight at the OK Corral. (So it MUST be true!!!)
It said that after the fight one of the dead guys gun had 4 bullets left in it so he probably had only fired 1 shot as he usually only loaded 5.
I know the question is for percussion, but hey!
It was done back then with cartridges!
 
StrawHat said:
I am curious how your revolvers are able to leave enough room for the firing pin to rest between the cartridges. Especially on the 1873, none of mine provide that sort of room, either replica or original. The 1872 might have the room but that revolver is not true to the original size of the revolver.

Kevin
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I remember reading in one of the gun magazines back in the 90's where they said some 1873 colt owners would file a notch in the rim of 2 adjacent cartridges to allow enough room for the firing pin to rest between them. I don't know how the old balloon head cartridges would fare with that technique?
 
From "The Volunteer's Manual, No. 1" by Gen. T. Worthington and Capt. R. W. Johnson and published by Applegate & Co., No. 43 Main Street, Cincinnati, 1861.

In the section "Manual for Colt's Navy Revolver," all of the chambers are loaded and all are capped by the numbers.

Then "Let down the hammer on the safety-notch, and resume the position of draw pistol, No. XLIII."

My original Colt 1851 Navy does not have "safety-notches," just flats between the cones and the cylinder easily rotates if the hammer is lowered there.

Does anyone have an original Colt 1861 Navy who can check if it had notches like the Remington?

Curiouser and curiouser!
 
Unlike Remington and some other revolvers, Colt's didn't have notches to rest the hammer nose in. However they did have pins in the back of the cylinder located between chambers, and the hammer - with a matching notch in the face could be lowered on these pins to prevent the cylinder from turning.
 
Does anyone have an original Colt 1861 Navy who can check if it had notches like the Remington?
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It would be difficult to find an 1861 Navy closer to mint condition than this presentation from Sam Colt to Col William A. Thornton, chief inspector for Military Arms at Springfield beginning with the Paterson revolver and continuing through the Dragoon series.

24mstba.png

No stinking notches!:)
 
I can not see the pins from that angle in Berkley's Picture but the revolver was in battery when photographed with the hammer on a cone.

Every picture on the internet of the rear face of colt cb cylinders only has little circles where the pins used to be.

My originals have no remaining pins visible.

I conclude that most period shooters actually must have used these pins all the time when carrying resulting in their obliteration.

I think they loaded and capped six and carried on a pin.

My repro colts with pins lock up solidly when the hammer is lowered between cones but if the hammer gets pulled back very much the cylinder can be easily turned into battery.

Does anyone have statistics on accidental gunshot wounds from the period.
 
A couple more notes:
The bolt is dragging on the cylinder in this position.
I added pins to a old Pietta cylinder that never had them, the hammer had the notch for them. I used hobby axle stock and soldered them in with Tix low temp solder.
 
Berkley, do you have the date for that patent of the pins?

Did Colt make cylinders without pins originally?

Notice the "or vice versa" as per Remington's notches.
 
Do the Uberti Walker repros have pins? It seems as though I recall it mentioned that they did. Do any of their Dragoon models?
 
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