Home Defense Loads? 12 Gauge

[Noxx]

Late to this thread, but as I've pointed out in previous ones regarding loads, lasers, and barrel lengths, there just is no "best" answer. It's got to be dependent on your home, and the "most likely" threat you will encounter there.

If you live in the boons, and might have an encounter outside your home, a heavier load is probable best for you. If you live in a condo where the longest shot is 7yds, #6 is fine, and #00 is borderline reckless.

For myself, the shotgun is "usually" in the bedroom, and if I need it, I imagine that upwards of 90% of probably encounters would include covering the bedroom door, or the hallway immediately outside of it. because none of these ranges exceed 10yds, #4 is my load of choice. Should a situation present itself (highly unlikely) that this loading is not sufficient, it certainly allows me to fight my way to a heavier weapon if need be.

Realistically, few if any of us will ever encounter an invader in our homes. Of those who do, only a tiny fraction will encounter well armed, and armored invaders in our home. So in the *unlikely* event that I will need to fire my shotgun, #4 is *most likely* to be the safest thing for myself, my wife, and my neighbors.

IMHO, you are best off tailoring your answer to your own "most likely" scenario, rather than someone elses.

 

[JShirley]

IMHO, you are best off tailoring your answer to your own "most likely" scenario, rather than someone elses.

I tend to take another tack. I would like to train for the worst conceivably survivable encounter. Anything less will then be easy.

John

 

[missouri dave]

My longest shot available in my home is about 30 feet. I use Dead Coyote. (56) 20 caliber pellets.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

In several places he talks about using bird shot and it being plenty effective in most HD scenarios

The FBI reccomends a round be able to go through at least one foot of ballistics gelatin, for a reason.

I think the FBI has more experiance in stopping power than mr. Smith.

However, if you have kids in the house, you can't endanger them just so you have a more effective round.

 

[ChCx2744]

Remington 3" Express Magnum Slugs

...JUST KIDDING

I use Remington 2 3/4" 00 Buck Reduced Recoil Shells

 

[Legasat]

Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

For me, that means 00 Buck.

 

[Water-Man]

# 4 is the way to go!

 

[JShirley]

I'm a slug man. I've mostly used Remington Reduced Recoil slugs for the past few years, but may switch to full-power foster's, since learning reduced recoil slugs penetrate much more deeply.

Lots of stuff, especially ammunition selection, gets debated ad nauseam on the 'net. Truth is, while I believe slugs are considerably more effective than any shot, I'd not feel especially unprepared using a shotgun inside a house or apartment with any load I'd patterned, from #2 shot to 00 or slugs. I would especially NOT want 0000, smaller than #4 shot, or saboted slug (for the last, unless I was in a completely deserted/rural environment with no close neighbors).

Some stuff just ain't effective. I would really not want to use dove shot, and would really prefer not to use #6 shot (though it's still probably better than 9mm at 15 feet). Any decent goose or deer load at close range will do the trick, as long as you practice with what you use. Less talk, more practice.

John

PS:

First, I'm surprised how many folks use slugs for HD. Every time I see a test of SG loads, the slugs always go through multiple walls (layers of sheetrock). Can you say neighbors?

I can say "don't miss". And if I can hit a running deer through heavy brush with a slug, I will have no problem hitting an advancing threat at half the distance.

 

[Eric F]

here is a site that has plenty of info. http://www.shadonet.com/2008/01/cho...t-buckshot-or-slugs-for-shotgun-home-defense/

 

[Gryffydd]

# 4 is the way to go!

#4 WHAT?
#4 bird shot has 135 pellets per ounce
#4 buck shot has 21.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Here's a monkey wrench into the debate.



Are Hollowpoint slugs better than regular slugs?

 

[JShirley]

Slugs are no doubt the most effective round but they are also the most likely to kill your neighbor.

Well, that's an interesting statement. I'm not certain it's an accurate one, though, considering that full-power Foster slugs penetrate less in tissue at close range than 00 buck. So: slugs give you the control of a single projectile, are extremely effective, and pose less of a shoot-through hazard. All you have to do...is hit your target. Hell, that's easy.

DD, the "hollowpoint" slugs are usually just dimpled. Theoretically, that should aid expansion at least a little. Define what you mean by better: deeper? Wider? Faster? More shock transmitted? What does better mean to you?

John

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Better?


Bang bang make bad bad go down down.

 

[JShirley]

Well, I think pretty much being shot with any non-saboted 12 gauge slug will make the bad guy fall down right quick. *

Someone Byron knew was shot with a 20 gauge slug. A block from a major ER department. He was DOA.

Personally, I'd like somewhere in the 10-18" range of penetration, with dramatic expansion or fragmentation, from most defensive calibers. A 12 gauge shotgun is over .70 caliber, so I'm not really worried about expansion being needed, but if it does happen- and it DOES usually happen with Foster slugs- that not only increases the effect on a human threat, it decreases penetration depth. If you look back a few posts, there is a link to a site that tested various shotgun loads. The Kent KO slug penetrated 17" in gelatin. At close range, 00 buckshot penetrates more, but (in my opinion) has less effect.

Though, in full disclosure, as I said previously, any 12 gauge goose or deer load at very close range (inside a house) is likely to be effective. Hell, at almost contact distance, just the shot cup alone might stop an attack! (Though I wouldn't want to bet on it.)

Really, the easiest thing to do, is go someplace where you can shoot more than just paper targets. Get some water-filled milk jugs, and a few old clothes if you want, and see how effective your pet load is. You do need to remember that penetration in water will be deeper than in gelatin. Expanding ammunition will also tend to expand a little more than in other medium.

OTOH, if what you have been using expands little or not at all in water, you can be assured it will absolutely NOT expand in tissue!

In any case, many people believe defensive ammunition should penetrate AT LEAST 12" to be reliably effective. There is even a school of thought (the "Deep Penetrators", appropriately enough) who believes that penetration is the single most important factor in ammunition effectiveness. Others look at things like permanent cavities. I would guess that most folks are like me, in believing that both the size and depth of the wound are important.

John


*with the understanding that bullets are mechanical devices, and subject to failure. When I was in Afghanistan, an ANA troop was brought in who had been lit up with a 30mm from an Apache. He was very much alive.