Cool Hand Luke 22:36
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That would be true for a pump action shotgun also.
I'd get her a Ruger 9mm carbine.
Home Defense longarm for petite female? (Coach gun?)
- Thread starter MatthewVanitas
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That would be true for a pump action shotgun also.
I'd get her a Ruger 9mm carbine.
Pug Puppy
Member
Why not a Mini-14 or a Valkyrie Arms greasegun?
Stoke 'em with expending type ammo-like Rangesafe or Powerball-and they won't overpenetrate.
Stoke 'em with expending type ammo-like Rangesafe or Powerball-and they won't overpenetrate.
Suprising more love not being shown for the coach gun.
For a nongun type, IMHO that the e-ticket. Dead simple to operate, and last time I checked far more lethal per shot (in close quarters) than any light recoiling rifle cartridge. As a "home defense" gun range wouldn't be a huge priority, and as a nongunny type owner is she going to practice for clearing jams, short shucks on a pump, etc.? Removing the action from the equation makes the weapon/operator combo a lot simpler and more reliable in an "OMG there's somebody in the house!" situation. A coach gun will be light, as easy as a carbine to handle indoors, and not kick too bad in 20g while still being a decisive stopper. Break in the action, get a side saddle, and a little time teaching break and reload on the move, I just think it's a heck of an option.
For a nongun type, IMHO that the e-ticket. Dead simple to operate, and last time I checked far more lethal per shot (in close quarters) than any light recoiling rifle cartridge. As a "home defense" gun range wouldn't be a huge priority, and as a nongunny type owner is she going to practice for clearing jams, short shucks on a pump, etc.? Removing the action from the equation makes the weapon/operator combo a lot simpler and more reliable in an "OMG there's somebody in the house!" situation. A coach gun will be light, as easy as a carbine to handle indoors, and not kick too bad in 20g while still being a decisive stopper. Break in the action, get a side saddle, and a little time teaching break and reload on the move, I just think it's a heck of an option.
To each their own...but this lady has a Rossi 20 g
Well....I am a woman....not too petite...but not long arms.....and I tried several home defense weapons before I decided on a 20g Rossi coach gun that I found in a pawn shop in good condition for a reasonable price. I have seen some at local guns shows as well.
I first tried the 12g and it just had too much kick and left me with a bruised shoulder. I thought....wellll.....if I am using it for home defense then if I have to use it then a bruised shoulder is worth it....but upon more thought....I decided that I needed to practice with it in order to be more accurate ....and did not cherish the idea of a bruised shoulder on a regular basis. Hence, when I found the 20 g and shot it.....I was a happy camper. It does not have the kick the 12g does ...but still has the same nasty effect.
And, I love the sound of the pump action.....maybe that alone will deter some intruders....but if not...it makes me feel empowered....like Dirty Harry....come on sucker....make my day!
Lady45
Well....I am a woman....not too petite...but not long arms.....and I tried several home defense weapons before I decided on a 20g Rossi coach gun that I found in a pawn shop in good condition for a reasonable price. I have seen some at local guns shows as well.
I first tried the 12g and it just had too much kick and left me with a bruised shoulder. I thought....wellll.....if I am using it for home defense then if I have to use it then a bruised shoulder is worth it....but upon more thought....I decided that I needed to practice with it in order to be more accurate ....and did not cherish the idea of a bruised shoulder on a regular basis. Hence, when I found the 20 g and shot it.....I was a happy camper. It does not have the kick the 12g does ...but still has the same nasty effect.
And, I love the sound of the pump action.....maybe that alone will deter some intruders....but if not...it makes me feel empowered....like Dirty Harry....come on sucker....make my day!
Lady45
Dave Williams
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Gander Mountain is selling a 20ga 870 called the Junior model, with an even shorter LOP than the Youth model, which is just perfect. 20" vent rib barrel, 3 chokes, great looking wood stock set, $250. Remington is offering a $25rebate on 870 express shotguns bought between now and November. This is a very light, handy shotgun that I believe only Gander Mountain is selling. Perfect for a lady or child. Hard to beat an 870. I bought one for my son.
Dave Williams
Dave Williams
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MatthewVanitas
Member
A lot of interesting responses on this thread. The main thing that I hadn't considered was the youth/bantam/junior variant of many popular pump-actions.
I suppose part of my "blind spot" on this issue was a lack of familiarity with the 20ga, as I've only ever been around 12ga shotguns.
I'm still rather taken with the whole coach gun concept. Like many things in life, trying to figure out whether it is a valid idea, or whether it just strikes me as novel.
Even setting aside the question of petiteness, a coach gun just seems a valid choice for people who aren't really "into" guns. People who put guns in about the same category as a fire extinguisher or first aid kit. I know, you know, etc. that it'd be great to get out and practice with a defensive weapon weekly. I also know that I should be EMT qualified, just in case, and know how to run PM checks on my car every week. But it ain't gonna happen. I can promise to get my First Aid creds, and check my oil/tire pressure regularly. Likewise, some folks are going to shoot a defensive weapon maybe once a year, clean it, load it, and call it good.
I'm not saying that's ideal. But a coach gun seems to meet the "check in the box" requirement: got gun? know how it works? If said person follows the four rules, executes good judgement and common sense in responding to a crisis, and knows how to thumb the tang safety and put the bead on the target, what's the harm?
I suppose part of my "blind spot" on this issue was a lack of familiarity with the 20ga, as I've only ever been around 12ga shotguns.
I'm still rather taken with the whole coach gun concept. Like many things in life, trying to figure out whether it is a valid idea, or whether it just strikes me as novel.
Even setting aside the question of petiteness, a coach gun just seems a valid choice for people who aren't really "into" guns. People who put guns in about the same category as a fire extinguisher or first aid kit. I know, you know, etc. that it'd be great to get out and practice with a defensive weapon weekly. I also know that I should be EMT qualified, just in case, and know how to run PM checks on my car every week. But it ain't gonna happen. I can promise to get my First Aid creds, and check my oil/tire pressure regularly. Likewise, some folks are going to shoot a defensive weapon maybe once a year, clean it, load it, and call it good.
I'm not saying that's ideal. But a coach gun seems to meet the "check in the box" requirement: got gun? know how it works? If said person follows the four rules, executes good judgement and common sense in responding to a crisis, and knows how to thumb the tang safety and put the bead on the target, what's the harm?
Gus Dddysgrl
Member
I personally like my dad's Marlin lever action. It's something I can handle and enjoy shooting. (just a referance I am 5'5" and 125-135 lbs depending on time of day/day of month etc)
Let her decide, but I personally am a fan of that one.
She will let you know what she's comfortable with as to lever-action/auto etc, but make sure you tell her the pros and cons of all options.
Gus
Let her decide, but I personally am a fan of that one.
She will let you know what she's comfortable with as to lever-action/auto etc, but make sure you tell her the pros and cons of all options.
Gus
LoneStranger
Member
It would be hard for any here, admit it people, to give you any kind of definitive answer to your question without knowing a lot more information.
The best we can do is throw out opinions and information and let you sort it out.
You have probably got a very good idea with the coachgun concept. It does adhere closely to the KISS principle and if all else fails KISS will probably work best.
The step up to the smaller pump shotguns is something that you should examine and bring before the young lady in question because in the end she and she alone in the dark of the night or some other bad scene scenario is the one that will have to operate and prevail.
So, what is her thoughts on acquiring a shotgun and has she given thought as to when and where she might be using it? Again, only she will know the answers to this and other questions.
The best we can do is throw out opinions and information and let you sort it out.
You have probably got a very good idea with the coachgun concept. It does adhere closely to the KISS principle and if all else fails KISS will probably work best.
The step up to the smaller pump shotguns is something that you should examine and bring before the young lady in question because in the end she and she alone in the dark of the night or some other bad scene scenario is the one that will have to operate and prevail.
So, what is her thoughts on acquiring a shotgun and has she given thought as to when and where she might be using it? Again, only she will know the answers to this and other questions.
mondocomputerman
Member
I like the idea of a M4 shorty, but I must agree, a coachgun would be easier to learn and operate.
As with most 'guns for females' threads, we are putting the cart before the horse. People recommend this or that shotgun because of 'blah, blah, blah'.
Don't mean to be surly here but using a long gun in self defense situations is difficult without training.
I recommend reading both John Farnham's book on shotgun usage and Vicki Farham's book on training women before going off into technobabble.
The most important thing is whether this is going to be a trained or untrained woman. I strongly suggest training before purchase unless we have a life and death need for the gun. I would get a kick butt OC in the interim if you don't need the gun immediately. Yes, I know everyone needs a gun immediately.
I strongly, strongly suggest that if one has a long arm that the person using it gets some training. Using shotguns tactically, esp. for women, is not that easy. Hits are not guaranteed. They are hard to hold, they kick, etc. The 20 gauges are better, I grant you.
Two shot guns are interesting. You know what, you use up the two shots really quickly and reloading is a bear in a tactical situation.
That being said, if you are going to buy, you want the simplest operating system with best available round in that simplest system and the gun should be easy to shoot.
That's the M-1, IMHO. I've heard Farnham recommend it for such females and Vicki go along.
Federal makes a softpoint for it.
For the untrained, I would speak against the lever action - too much manipulation under stress.
The coach gun - 12 gauge too much for the untrained. Reloading a bear under stress.
20 gauge pumps - you can mess up a rack. A semi might work, if you get the right sized gun. But I like the carbine first.
I really do think training is useful first.
Don't mean to be surly here but using a long gun in self defense situations is difficult without training.
I recommend reading both John Farnham's book on shotgun usage and Vicki Farham's book on training women before going off into technobabble.
The most important thing is whether this is going to be a trained or untrained woman. I strongly suggest training before purchase unless we have a life and death need for the gun. I would get a kick butt OC in the interim if you don't need the gun immediately. Yes, I know everyone needs a gun immediately.
I strongly, strongly suggest that if one has a long arm that the person using it gets some training. Using shotguns tactically, esp. for women, is not that easy. Hits are not guaranteed. They are hard to hold, they kick, etc. The 20 gauges are better, I grant you.
Two shot guns are interesting. You know what, you use up the two shots really quickly and reloading is a bear in a tactical situation.
That being said, if you are going to buy, you want the simplest operating system with best available round in that simplest system and the gun should be easy to shoot.
That's the M-1, IMHO. I've heard Farnham recommend it for such females and Vicki go along.
Federal makes a softpoint for it.
For the untrained, I would speak against the lever action - too much manipulation under stress.
The coach gun - 12 gauge too much for the untrained. Reloading a bear under stress.
20 gauge pumps - you can mess up a rack. A semi might work, if you get the right sized gun. But I like the carbine first.
I really do think training is useful first.
I like the coach gun.I was not sure an inexperienced shooter could lower the hammers safely.It can be easily learned.If you go internal hammers will the gun be stored loaded?This will be somewhat dangerous,if knocked over it could discharge,spring fatigue is a factor.I once checked on a Ruger MKI that had been stored in a nightstand for years.It was inoperable due to spring fatigue!!!Have you given any consideration to the revolver?It can be stored for long periods,is very portable about the house/yard.If kept in a nightstand and the bedroom is used as the "safe" room,a high level of marksmanship is not necessary.You can dial 911 while still training the gun on the door.Hitting anyone coming thru the door would not be difficult.A shotguns pattern will not be that much larger at that range.In my opinion training is even more important than gun selection.
mustanger98
Member
Go back to a historical standpoint- if you can only own one gun, make it a SxS hammerless shotgun. If you break it in just enough, reloading won't be the bear it's been made out to be, but to shoot-reload-shoot-reload in a hurry requires some degree of practice like anything else. I good friend of mine- a woman who's also an Old West afficionado- keeps a SxS hammerless coachgun backed up by a .38spl for defensive purposes.
sm
member
I totally agree with training !!
I spent a LOT of time shooting Clay Games. I am one that believes the more one handles a firearm - the better they are with it - it becomes an extension.
So IMO / IME for tyros and Petite females , one that was shooting a 1100 20 ga or similar - was already ahead of the "HD Firearm" in need folks.
Those totally new to the concept, I took to the range - MY first exposure to them of safety and concepts. I made it fun. Even the little old folks - elderly, arthritic, maybe physically handicapped. I have taken these folks over to a range all by ourselves. I have had two folks without a left forearm become proffiecnt with a single shot shotgun. My thinking, My training to fit that / those persons and needs.
20 ga, be it a 1100 Beretta 302, 303, Browning Gold...at least these folks could either get trainng from shooting skeet....and sneak off to a safe range and set up practice stages. Those that did not shoot skeet could still learn by doing---no talking down.
Many go to the family property and shot cans and stuff, make up things and all to practice. Ammo is cheap - promo dove and quail loads, easy to see if gun safe, easy to maintain.
If a lady can buy 3 boxes of promo loads , head to family property to shoot one her own....goes a long way in my book of being able to hit with a load of #3 buck....
If that BG is coming at them, with a shotgun in their hands...drunk, high, both and plum crazy - slap the trigger....A BG may scoff at a pistol....might scoff at a rifle....that big old bore,and "all them pellets" ....and he still is coming....gene pool needs cleaning.
Easy to buy shotgun ammo...women - new to guns will do this....other ammo, some are not "comfortable yet" .
I keep it simple for new folks.
I spent a LOT of time shooting Clay Games. I am one that believes the more one handles a firearm - the better they are with it - it becomes an extension.
So IMO / IME for tyros and Petite females , one that was shooting a 1100 20 ga or similar - was already ahead of the "HD Firearm" in need folks.
Those totally new to the concept, I took to the range - MY first exposure to them of safety and concepts. I made it fun. Even the little old folks - elderly, arthritic, maybe physically handicapped. I have taken these folks over to a range all by ourselves. I have had two folks without a left forearm become proffiecnt with a single shot shotgun. My thinking, My training to fit that / those persons and needs.
20 ga, be it a 1100 Beretta 302, 303, Browning Gold...at least these folks could either get trainng from shooting skeet....and sneak off to a safe range and set up practice stages. Those that did not shoot skeet could still learn by doing---no talking down.
Many go to the family property and shot cans and stuff, make up things and all to practice. Ammo is cheap - promo dove and quail loads, easy to see if gun safe, easy to maintain.
If a lady can buy 3 boxes of promo loads , head to family property to shoot one her own....goes a long way in my book of being able to hit with a load of #3 buck....
If that BG is coming at them, with a shotgun in their hands...drunk, high, both and plum crazy - slap the trigger....A BG may scoff at a pistol....might scoff at a rifle....that big old bore,and "all them pellets" ....and he still is coming....gene pool needs cleaning.
Easy to buy shotgun ammo...women - new to guns will do this....other ammo, some are not "comfortable yet" .
I keep it simple for new folks.
Well, according to the experts in a number of gun publications over the years, they recommend for a newbie a double-action revolver. Nix on the long gun.
Preferred is a medium frame (about 30-35 ounces), four inch barrel, and preferred is stainless steel finish to resist corrosion.
Something in .357 magnum which loads the less powerful .38 caliber line-up of rounds of various levels of power. .357 magnum in a 125 grain lead nose copper jacket hollow-point will do the job with a muzzle velocity of around 1200 feet per second. At one time considered the best one shot stopper among handgun rounds, IIRC. May still be. I think Marlin makes a lever action rifle in the same caliber. 125 grain .357 out of rifle barrel must sizzle.
Ruger GP100 is a good example, IIRC. Ruger used to make, and may still do, the Speed Six and Security Six which are medium frame.
Preferred is a medium frame (about 30-35 ounces), four inch barrel, and preferred is stainless steel finish to resist corrosion.
Something in .357 magnum which loads the less powerful .38 caliber line-up of rounds of various levels of power. .357 magnum in a 125 grain lead nose copper jacket hollow-point will do the job with a muzzle velocity of around 1200 feet per second. At one time considered the best one shot stopper among handgun rounds, IIRC. May still be. I think Marlin makes a lever action rifle in the same caliber. 125 grain .357 out of rifle barrel must sizzle.
Ruger GP100 is a good example, IIRC. Ruger used to make, and may still do, the Speed Six and Security Six which are medium frame.
I'd like to second the recommendation for the Kel-Tec SUB 2000.
I'd suggest 9mm in the Glock or Beretta version. Both have high capacity magazines up to 30+ rounds. Pretty much any 9mm HP will have very good terminal performance. Recoil and muzzle flash is negligent. The rifle is light and compact, and folds up for easy storage.
I'd suggest 9mm in the Glock or Beretta version. Both have high capacity magazines up to 30+ rounds. Pretty much any 9mm HP will have very good terminal performance. Recoil and muzzle flash is negligent. The rifle is light and compact, and folds up for easy storage.
mustanger98
Member
Even those experts don't tell you everything at once, nor do all of them know everything. I know, I cite those guys time to time too, but look how much info/experience there is out there aside from what's been written.
My sister and I both were shooting .22LR rifles and 20 and 16 guage shotguns long before we shot any double action revolver.
The gun rag experts don't tell you much about defensive long guns partially because they're pushing the latest greatest super duper sidearm that slices and dices and is still sharp enough to cut through a galvanized pipe. In all my reading, Sheriff Jim Wilson has written a good bit more on rifles/carbines for defensive and general work than most other defensive/police/western gun writers. To run a search with his name and other keywords would probably turn up more usable info.
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