no that conclusion is based on professional experience thanks to our military and police communities that prefer (untill recently with the M1014) a pump
I've actually had some involvement in military procurement processes and I'll just say a lot goes into those decisions that doesn't concern a private citizen choosing his gear one iota. They have many concerns that private citizens/individuals do not. And as you stated there are moves being made to autos anyhow.
it comes down to a pretty simple conclusion. A high velocity assualt rifle isn't a logical HD weapons,
Well perhaps not an assault rifle since full auto is too expensive for most folks, but an AR is a perfectly logical choice and a lot of very knowledgeable people go that route
with the exception of an actual breakage there are VERY RARE cases of a pump acting in this manner because only YOU manipulate the action
Go to a three gun match you see plenty of people having issues with their pumps. No an individual may never have such issues. In that same vein there are people with auto loaders that have never failed them. Again it is just not a situation where across the board one is hands down better or worse than the other.
the statement of zero basis to draw conclusions is a falicy we all band together here on THR to warn and help each other with just that factor knowledge is power unless you forgot your GI Joe days knowing is still half the battle we tell each other constantly whats working whats not and whats broken and how to fix it
I should have written, second hand anecdotal as the bases instead of zero, sorry. You'll forgive me if I put little stock in someone's opinion of a give weapon system if they have no first hand experience with it.
i have to dissagree police and military trials are seriously rough on a shotguns design very few have entered those fields and the ones that stand out are remington and mossberg not because they are inexpencive but because they work
You honoestly don't think more people have 870s than Benelli M4s because the 870 has been available for aprox 60 years and only costs a few hundred dollars. The M4 has past millitary trials so I'm not really sure what that has to do with it one way or another. One cannot expect a product that has only been on the market for 10 years to be as widespread as on that has been available since '51 even if price was the same. No add in that one is price prohibitive for a large share of the market. Look at the point being made that I was responding to and think about it. Those two facts are certainly going to influence why one gun is found in more closets than another.
and i have nothing against autos but i do believe a pump will always surpass an autos capabilities in an HD/Fighting role
Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. I used to think that but changed my mind that a pump is per se superior after more practical style shooting and exposure to a wider array of auto loaders. From an empirical stand point I can say,
only for me, a pump is not better than my current auto gun. I run the auto gun faster and smoother by the objective measures available to me. I always say things like this are silly to argue about, get your guns hit the range and see what works. People may come to different conclusions for themselves.
if you cant say they are better than a pump for the roll then they dont get the part
By across the board I meant in the hands of every single person. For some people they certainly are better. As you may have gathered I'm not saying a pump is "better" across the board either.
as for basing on three guns name one that is 100% reliable
My experience has been that not even pumps are 100% reliable in most peoples hands. I've seen a number of 870s have issues with cheap wal mart winchester bulk. I have a Saiga 12 (one of a few I own) that has never had a hicup with anything I've put in it, bird shot to buck to slugs . Will that continue for ever? IDK. Nothing yet in about 2K rounds. I also can think of a particular A5 that I never saw have an issue in about ten years of hunting and shooting clays. Maybe it had one somewhere at some time but I never saw it or heard about it. I've actually never had an auto loader have a failure with a defensive load.