home defense- slugs vs. Buck shot

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Never shoulder a shotgun unless you are in mortal danger, rock salt and beanbags are worse than useless, if the BG is armed he will surely be compelled to shoot you, if he is not, you will be sued "my client was grievously wounded by a 12 ga beanbag and will never be able to lead a normal life again." Slugs are if you dont have a neighbor within 1/2 mile, all else is buckshot. If you ARE in mortal danger use #4 buckshot in an apartment, 00 for a house in the 'burbs. Take a few minutes and look and see how each shot would end up- down each hallway, etc. You really dont want to hurt a neighbor. Remember if you pull the trigger, justified or not, your life will never be the same.
 
I know this isn't very likely, but 'what if' questions are entertaining to me, anyway, what if they are wearing body armor? Will buckshot penetrate?
 
i will say no way in hell. however the impact might stop him or slow him down.

i dont know.....armor? lol you live inside bank?
 
Standard deer slugs are perfect for home defense. They're soft lead and flatten pretty good, plus they experience a lot of drop very quickly. I'm not convinced that buckshot is more effective, or that it will penetrate less.
 
Those suckers [slugs] will go through multiple layers of sheetrock and plywood.
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As will 00 buck, .22LR, 9mm, .45, etc etc... Do some googling around for penetration testing. I'd post links, but my internet is heavily restricted right now.

You're still going to be responsible for anything coming out of the muzzle of your gun. Recommend BA/UU/R to increase the chances of your rounds going where you intend for them to.

For armor, depends on the type. Slugs and 00 buck aren't likely to penetrate most soft and hard armor, but particularly with soft armor are very likely to stop the threat, which is the primary goal.
 
I am somewhat rural and use slugs. I understand a slug can pass through an interior wall, insulation, and exterior wall but I really doubt that slug will have the power to travel the two hundred yards to a neighbors house and then penetrate their walls after that. Besides that my neighbors all live uphill.

That would make an interesting experiment though to fire a slug through walls and then see how it's ballistics are affected. I would bet that the drop would be very significant.
 
well, my neighbor is about 50 yards away and their house is made of bricks, do you think a slug would penetrate my walls and theirs as well?
 
well, my neighbor is about 50 yards away and their house is made of bricks, do you think a slug would penetrate my walls and theirs as well?
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Probably not, but I wouldn't bank on that. If you feel compelled to use slugs in a HD shotgun I would stick with foster type rifled slugs. A large chunk of squishy lead will at least not penetrate to much more then necessary. Brenekke and sabot slugs will penetrate more because they have a stronger structure to them. Slugs are typically used on deer (or larger) or for longer ranges where shot becomes less effective.

I personally use 2-3/4" 8 or 9 pellet 00 buckshot. Pattern them in your shotgun to see what brand gives you the pattern you want at the range you want.
 
As many already said..it all depends from where you live and what kind of danger you are going to face...

In my case, I live in a semi-suburban area, 3/4 of an acre of property with neighbours all around....and most likely I'm going to face only human predators.

Under my bed I keep a Mossberg 500 stuffed 5 + 1 of buckshot 00 (and a plastic bag with 15 more), the regular Remington 2 3/4 high velocity ones (1325 fps) not copper plated.....the variable choke is set all open.

Probably a regular velocity Foster Slug would not overpenetrate a lot (it would flatten easily)....still I think it would go through more stuff than buckshot.

As backup, I have 3 handguns on my nightstand, a 40 S&W, a 9 mm and a 44 Mag loaded with 44 Specials....but the pump shotgun would be the first firearm I grab (and I wpuld put one of the handgun in my pocket too)

Never underestimate the ffect of a backshot in the chest/face at short distances...
 
Good ol' 00 buck. However, Slugs are preferable at ranges that are no longer labelled "self-defense" and suddenly become "prison-time".
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I tried to find where Slugs are not a legal SD/HD round and I am not able to do so. I called several lawyers and the sheriff's office and all stated that they were not aware of any law outlawing the use of slugs for SD/HD.

Please provide any info that you have on the law.
 
I was thinking I could alternate, hit them first with the buck shot and then hit them with a slug if they are still moving, although I would most likely try to remove their leg at the knee with the slug if it comes to it
 
I was thinking I could alternate, hit them first with the buck shot and then hit them with a slug if they are still moving, although I would most likely try to remove their leg at the knee with the slug if it comes to it
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Are you serious?
 
Good ol' 00 buck. However, Slugs are preferable at ranges that are no longer labelled "self-defense" and suddenly become "prison-time".
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I tried to find where Slugs are not a legal SD/HD round and I am not able to do so. I called several lawyers and the sheriff's office and all stated that they were not aware of any law outlawing the use of slugs for SD/HD.
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I believe he's saying that at distances at which slugs are more effective than buckshot, you can't usually claim self-defense.

I am somewhat rural and use slugs. I understand a slug can pass through an interior wall, insulation, and exterior wall but I really doubt that slug will have the power to travel the two hundred yards to a neighbors house and then penetrate their walls after that. Besides that my neighbors all live uphill.

That would make an interesting experiment though to fire a slug through walls and then see how it's ballistics are affected. I would bet that the drop would be very significant.
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You may be underestimating the power and trajectory of heavy .729 caliber slugs. Think ".45-70 Government" and you'll be in the right ballpark. Here's a piece of "bulletproof" polycast acrylic, from the Box o'Truth:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot6.htm


Stopped a .223 FMJ at close range:
6-9.jpg



Stopped a .308 FMJ at close range:
6-11.jpg



Couldn't stop a 12-gauge slug:
6-13.jpg
 
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why couldn't I use a slug? Dead is dead, if I take someone's head off with some 00 buck from 10ft. away, why would it bee any diferent than a slug (granted a slug might paint my walls, but they need a new coat anyway)?
 
00 buckshot! If there is 2 assalents 3 or so ft apart you'll get them both!

Heaven preserve us from shotgun mythology. Next, someone will be saying that "with a shotgun, ya don't gotta even aim."

At usual home defense ranges, shotgun patterns won't be much bigger than saucer size, IF they even get that big. 'Bore size' is much more likely. Personally, if I have any choice in the matter, I won't use a barrel/load that produces four foot patterns at 75 feet (25 yards), much less a lot closer.


...although I would most likely try to remove their leg at the knee with the slug if it comes to it

And likewise, Heaven preserve us from the "shoot them just a little bit" approach to self defense. Lookit- a shotgun, and ANYTHING fired from it, is a deadly weapon. Its use constitutes the application of lethal force. Any time application of lethal force is not legally justified, use of a shotgun- no matter what it is loaded with- is not going to be justified. I am not a lawyer, and I don't know case law or blackletter law in all jurisdictions, but I'd sure hate to have to go to court with a defense that 'I only meant to shoot him a little bit.'

If you're justified in shooting, shoot for center mass and shoot to stop. Otherwise, find a different way to solve your problem than a shotgun. But no matter what, know the law regarding self defense where you live. And get your info from a local criminal defense attorney, not off the Internet.
 
why couldn't I use a slug? Dead is dead, if I take someone's head off with some 00 buck from 10ft. away, why would it bee any diferent than a slug (granted a slug might paint my walls, but they need a new coat anyway)?
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The difference isn't effectiveness so much as recoil and downrange hazard. A slug penetrates building materials like a .45-70; there aren't all that many common firearms (including a lot of high-powered rifles) that a 12-gauge shotgun shooting slugs will not out-penetrate, which is fine if you live in the boonies, but not so fine if you have neighbors.
 
Don't, God forbid, hurt your family. I have a wife and four kids. Buckshot easily goes through drywall, so it is not for me. A blast or three of birdshot has a pleasant subduing capacity without the same collateral risk.
 
nulfisin- read Lee's post in #47.

Here's the thing about overpenetration. You ALWAYS have to plan on ANY load from ANY gun overpenetrating. It's not like you can stand your kid behind the bad guy, shoot him with birdshot, and say to yourself; "Wow, it's magical that I used birdshot, there's no way it could hurt my kid." For birdshot to be effective, (It is ALWAYS less effective than buckshot,) you're talking about less then ten feet of range. An ounce of lead is an ounce of lead when you're close enough. BUT, it will ALSO scream straight through a human target at that range. If you don't believe me do some testing of your own. Preventing people in your house is a matter of planning and shooting angle, not ammo selection. No matter how safe your round is with a direct hit, statistics show you won't always get that hit.

As for slugs, it's not a bad idea to keep some, say in a sidesaddle, 2-3 rounds, pointing the opposite direction. If there arose a need for you to take a shot through the refrigerator, you would have the option.
 
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