ThrottleJockey
member
00 buck 3 1/2 inch magnums.
Do you use slugs or buck for home defense?
- Thread starter SnakeLogan
- Start date
- Status
sm
member
These set ups were based on real events, not only events that occurred in the industries that me and mine were associated with, also industries that parallel, and also based on some police and military situations.
I am not smart enough to keep up with how many rounds, much less what kind of round I have in a shotgun.
I first tripped trigger on a shotgun, when I was 5 years old. Therefore, I was mentored to keep it simple and know how to keep the shotgun running. It does not matter how many rounds a shotgun holds, because a shotgun will run out of ammo, therefore one must know how to keep the gun fed.
Yes, I am a proponent of having a handgun on person. I was born with a revolver in my dresser drawer crib, and first shot it, at age 3.
I had other handguns by the time I was 8 years old, still at age 8, I was given a handgun I could, and did, carry concealed.
Mentors felt it was time for me to have a smaller pistol that I could carry concealed.
Still, I knew where guns where in the homes and businesses I frequented.
Including long guns, both rifles and shotguns.
So all my life, if I entered a structure, I knew where a gun was, such as having the option to not use a handgun, instead grab a long gun.
This was all before Political Correctness and Enacted laws about guns and storage.
Kids were flat raised different back in my day. I was raised even more different than most kids, as I was a target, being in a hi-risk environment.
Oh I wagged guns places before I was 8 years old, and folks had a gun in vehicles.
Dead serious.
Some serious criminals had me as their prime target when they came to town.
Only problem was, I had a reputation of being a royal pain in the backside, to run down.
They could not peg me, so they went to target number 2.
I knew this fella and his family.
First off, they got some assistance from criminals, that were not as professional as they were.
Next, they had the gentleman's wife and kid, under their control at their home. Thank goodness that kid was sick, and had been to the doctor that day and the medicine made them sleepy.
The gentleman was approached outside his business, over powered and disarmed. He was placed into the trunk of his car and the car driven around for hours, until the wee hours.
He was told his wife were being held hostage at his home. He and his wife had a few seconds, via phone, to confirm she and the kid were indeed being held.
The kid settled down, took the medicine and went to sleep. His mom, this gentleman's wife was repeatedly raped during all the time her husband was being driven around, then forced at gun point to open a business where the criminals took what they came for.
They tied him up, beat on him a bit, and left.
Upon completion of getting what they came for, the criminals at the house, tied up the mom/wife, ripped the phone cords out of the walls and left.
This will make you sick. You know these folks, and that is bad enough. Then you learn these folks were coming for you, and these folks were targeted because you could not be pegged.
That is something I have had to deal with , it stays in a compartment where other things stay in my brain.
Why did I have oxygen tanks, a hidden phone line that would not be affected if lines were cut, and other measures installed in a walk in vault.
Because my role at the time was consulting a person with a new constructed business. About 3 weeks after this business opened, another business had a serious situation.
Employees got caught at closing time, and were forced into the walk in vault, after the place was robbed.
The was on a Sat night, and Monday was a holiday. A long weekend.
These employees were single, as they said the ones married, with families should go on and do family stuff with a long weekend.
These folks damn near suffocated.
Nobody was really expecting these folks to be anywhere. They are single, so not being able to get in touch with them after a store closed, was not ...
Criminals repeat what they do, and other criminals copy what has worked.
That is why I implemented the plans for the walk in vault.
I already had guns, ammo, shooting lanes, back stops, cover and everything else in that business setting.
Still if matter go south and employees ended up in that walk in vault, a plan/plans were discussed, practiced, tweaked, and implemented. Including adding this to regular "set ups" we did, to keep everyone in shape.
Buckshot and Slugs were the loading for this business.
One way mirrors were part of the security measures and slugs deflect less.
Same reason hardball/FMJ ammo was in the guns in that business, hardball/fmj deflects less.
We actually shot these mirrors and tested cover, backstops , before actually being put into the business.
I was brought in to consult, so I had experience with this. Still I investigated and verified again, and also for the benefit of the bosses, and for employees.
Yes, we had a replicate if you will, of this business on private property. Folks practiced what we hoped they would never have to do.
Like send a shotgun slug through a one-way mirror, from a front, book keepers office.
The wall where that mirror was installed, before the drywall was hung, steel plates were hung.
Meaning, serious cover , and one had to know where they could shoot through. The mirror was only one area.
No, I will not share what other "areas" along that wall there were. Some stuff stays private.
How raised - what you do.
All I can share are my experiences and observations. I admit being a dumb southern boy, and there are too many folks with more experiences than I that one can learn from.
I have my "situations" and while mine are not as numerous or as serious as others...mine were real, and I own them.
s
I am not smart enough to keep up with how many rounds, much less what kind of round I have in a shotgun.
I first tripped trigger on a shotgun, when I was 5 years old. Therefore, I was mentored to keep it simple and know how to keep the shotgun running. It does not matter how many rounds a shotgun holds, because a shotgun will run out of ammo, therefore one must know how to keep the gun fed.
Yes, I am a proponent of having a handgun on person. I was born with a revolver in my dresser drawer crib, and first shot it, at age 3.
I had other handguns by the time I was 8 years old, still at age 8, I was given a handgun I could, and did, carry concealed.
Mentors felt it was time for me to have a smaller pistol that I could carry concealed.
Still, I knew where guns where in the homes and businesses I frequented.
Including long guns, both rifles and shotguns.
So all my life, if I entered a structure, I knew where a gun was, such as having the option to not use a handgun, instead grab a long gun.
This was all before Political Correctness and Enacted laws about guns and storage.
Kids were flat raised different back in my day. I was raised even more different than most kids, as I was a target, being in a hi-risk environment.
Oh I wagged guns places before I was 8 years old, and folks had a gun in vehicles.
Dead serious.
Some serious criminals had me as their prime target when they came to town.
Only problem was, I had a reputation of being a royal pain in the backside, to run down.
They could not peg me, so they went to target number 2.
I knew this fella and his family.
First off, they got some assistance from criminals, that were not as professional as they were.
Next, they had the gentleman's wife and kid, under their control at their home. Thank goodness that kid was sick, and had been to the doctor that day and the medicine made them sleepy.
The gentleman was approached outside his business, over powered and disarmed. He was placed into the trunk of his car and the car driven around for hours, until the wee hours.
He was told his wife were being held hostage at his home. He and his wife had a few seconds, via phone, to confirm she and the kid were indeed being held.
The kid settled down, took the medicine and went to sleep. His mom, this gentleman's wife was repeatedly raped during all the time her husband was being driven around, then forced at gun point to open a business where the criminals took what they came for.
They tied him up, beat on him a bit, and left.
Upon completion of getting what they came for, the criminals at the house, tied up the mom/wife, ripped the phone cords out of the walls and left.
This will make you sick. You know these folks, and that is bad enough. Then you learn these folks were coming for you, and these folks were targeted because you could not be pegged.
That is something I have had to deal with , it stays in a compartment where other things stay in my brain.
Why did I have oxygen tanks, a hidden phone line that would not be affected if lines were cut, and other measures installed in a walk in vault.
Because my role at the time was consulting a person with a new constructed business. About 3 weeks after this business opened, another business had a serious situation.
Employees got caught at closing time, and were forced into the walk in vault, after the place was robbed.
The was on a Sat night, and Monday was a holiday. A long weekend.
These employees were single, as they said the ones married, with families should go on and do family stuff with a long weekend.
These folks damn near suffocated.
Nobody was really expecting these folks to be anywhere. They are single, so not being able to get in touch with them after a store closed, was not ...
Criminals repeat what they do, and other criminals copy what has worked.
That is why I implemented the plans for the walk in vault.
I already had guns, ammo, shooting lanes, back stops, cover and everything else in that business setting.
Still if matter go south and employees ended up in that walk in vault, a plan/plans were discussed, practiced, tweaked, and implemented. Including adding this to regular "set ups" we did, to keep everyone in shape.
Buckshot and Slugs were the loading for this business.
One way mirrors were part of the security measures and slugs deflect less.
Same reason hardball/FMJ ammo was in the guns in that business, hardball/fmj deflects less.
We actually shot these mirrors and tested cover, backstops , before actually being put into the business.
I was brought in to consult, so I had experience with this. Still I investigated and verified again, and also for the benefit of the bosses, and for employees.
Yes, we had a replicate if you will, of this business on private property. Folks practiced what we hoped they would never have to do.
Like send a shotgun slug through a one-way mirror, from a front, book keepers office.
The wall where that mirror was installed, before the drywall was hung, steel plates were hung.
Meaning, serious cover , and one had to know where they could shoot through. The mirror was only one area.
No, I will not share what other "areas" along that wall there were. Some stuff stays private.
How raised - what you do.
All I can share are my experiences and observations. I admit being a dumb southern boy, and there are too many folks with more experiences than I that one can learn from.
I have my "situations" and while mine are not as numerous or as serious as others...mine were real, and I own them.
s
CapnMac
Member
Lived in a thin-walled apartment for too long--tube has duplex 2+6; plain-old dimple-head slugs along the stock.
Been thinking about this a bit, what with living in an old house with stout wooden walls. Over penetration not so great an issue as ricochet with the SG.
Which is the second choice after the 185gr STHP in the Camp45.
Been thinking about this a bit, what with living in an old house with stout wooden walls. Over penetration not so great an issue as ricochet with the SG.
Which is the second choice after the 185gr STHP in the Camp45.
inSight-NEO
Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
- Messages
- 842
Gordon, I found your reply, among others here, interesting. While Im still having a hard time believing that, say, 00 buck is only "moderately" effective (particularly within typical HD ranges), I am not completely adverse to the use of slugs, provided I can find the right kind for HD use.
As of now, I have Federal LE Low-Recoil 00 (9 pellet) and Federal LE Low-Recoil Slugs on hand. The LE 00 buckshot is what Im currently using for HD.
As of now, I have Federal LE Low-Recoil 00 (9 pellet) and Federal LE Low-Recoil Slugs on hand. The LE 00 buckshot is what Im currently using for HD.
sm
member
Gordon,
I appreciate your reply as well.
I pay attention to your posts, and one reason is you have the life experiences and observations you do. Including having the many hours of training.
Again, I have never attended a known training facility, there were not any unless one went into the Military, or Police work when I was coming up. My "lessons" and "set ups" were all private by those I respectfully refer to as "Mentors & Elders".
Granted some of these ladies and gents were quite interesting.
I paid attention to you [Gordon] because I am reading words I heard coming up from Mentors & Elders.
Yes, this includes those that served in Vietnam and carried a Ithaca 37, and ...
"Stuff does not do what some folks read in a magazine, hear at the barbershop, read on a box of shells, or some gal's brother who knows a plumber, that knows a guy that said ____" -Ranger.
(yes I cleaned up the language)
Then I read Reviews of Awerbuck by Gordon.
Now years ago I learned of Awerbuck, and being totally honest, what got my attention, was the fact he was from South Africa.
I had Mentors & Elders from South Africa.
When I heard of what Awerbuck was teaching, I wanted to cry.
My Mentors had shared some of the same darn things, for the same darn reason.
Then I laughed when I found out Awerbuck is "not that tall" but his gal is.
I know how darn tough a "not that tall" South African is. I also know how tough a tall good looking South African lady is too.
Now I am being mentored by South Africans, and I hear how buckshot did not work in "unrests" in his country, nor did it work for dangerous game.
And again, if you drop a shell around a South African, you are not going to reach down and pick it up. That was another thing I understand Awerbuck does not allow.
So I read Gordon, Lee Lapin, and others that have attended a Awerbuck class and these things are Mentors shared with me , way back when.
Scott Rietz is another...
H&H Hunter has shared his trips going after dangerous game, and the loads for shotguns are slugs.
[Contrary to what a former member tried to sell everyone around here with 3.5" 000 buck being the ultimate extreme load from the ultimate shotgun).
Now back in the day, Winchester 1300's came in all 4 gauges. 12, 20, 28 and .410.
Now I grew up reading Ruark, and these South Africans shared with me Ruark's works and about the peoples and unrests.
So Ruark is more than just The Old Man And The Boy, to me.
No secret I have a thing for Quail, and hate feral cats. I grew with quail, and Ruark.
South African Mentors and "lesson time". They had a feral cat in a mesh cage.
I was asked if I could fell that feral cat, caught out near some quail coveys.
Sure I could, and though I was not that big, I could do one shot with a 12 ga with buckshot.
Then the Mentors put some "quail" around that mesh cage. Small balloons to replicate quail...about the size of a tennis ball.
Atop, sides...
This changed matters right fast. I had seen this 1300 in 12 ga patterned with the 00 buck load.
"Young-un, whatcha gonna do?"
I snagged the 1300 in 28 ga, and tossed in a round ball slug and took the shot.
No balloons burst, only the feral cat was felled.
The 28 ga was used a lot for defensive shooting lessons. Just like using a .22 rim-fire allows one to focus on correct basic fundamentals with less felt recoil, so will a 28 ga.
Keep in mind I grew up with Veterans of Wars, and others with Physical Limits.
So a 28 ga afforded them then, just as today, the ability to tote a shotgun that might be toted more than shot...and one that can be shot quite a bit due to less felt recoil.
Lots of deer, and other critters have been felled with a 28 ga slug.
28 ga is .550, which is not far from .54 caliber, which has a proven history.
Some of these deer were felled when deer season was open during quail season.
Tote that easy to carry 28 ga for quail, then if the opportunity arises to take deer, just change load.
I get bigger, and have a '74 SX1 that I had Nu-Line install external knurled chokes in a 28" barrel. Originally it was fixed modified of course being 28".
FWIW that gun was still running like a top after I put somewhere like 300,000 rds through it, before it was destroyed last year.
I had the .735 tube screwed in, heck I left it in for most of what did anyway, lots of skeet...
Out on the property, just a good old outdoor BBQ. Nice day, good folks.
New puppy for one of the kids, kids being kids...
Some rabid dawgs come onto property. We knew some were around, just we had not been able to run them down.
Serious mode kicked in.
The kids were ushered in with the ladies, and some older gents.
I snagged the SX1 and a box of Slugs, and hopped into the bed of the truck.
Kids are crying about that new puppy, especially the little girl it belonged to.
The puppy was being a puppy and in all the hurry, could not be carried in.
Little girl had it, but with fear let it go and ran...
I mean that truck was fired up and folks had guns, and ...
I did not miss, I felled rabid dawgs from a moving truck. I did not hit any other vehicles, structures, or anything.
Lessons from the old days.
I was mobile, and others had positioned themselves various ways to protect themselves and afford shots.
In the blink of a eye this happened and it was over with quick.
Then just "snag-n-drag" the corpses down to a burn pile and back to BBQ.
That puppy was being targeted by one rabid dawg, I did not have much of a window, but I had one.
Swing thru method ( pass through) I come from behind, matched speed and angle and had nothing in my focus but the leading edge of that rabid dawg...
I kept swinging saw daylight, slapped trigger and kept on swinging.
Think station high 4 in skeet, only ground level.
Head shot, and felled , puppy kept running...
I kept the plug in that SX1, so I had only loaded 3. I kept the gun fed loading into the mag, and never let the gun go dry.
I have never attended a class of Awerbuck, Clint Smith, Rietz, Ayoob or anyone else.
Still I run what I brung, kept the gun fed, and did not hit anything I was not supposed to.
Again, one has to access themselves and environments. One has to be one with the gun.
Investigate & Verify for you what your needs are, what gun fits you, what loads work in your gun.
I am not going to be at your gunfight - Awerbuck
Neither am I, or Gordon, or Lee, or anyone else around here.
Nor will a shotgun mfg, or shotgun shell mfg, or shotgun accessory mfg, or...
Gordon,
Thanks again sir.
Steve
I appreciate your reply as well.
I pay attention to your posts, and one reason is you have the life experiences and observations you do. Including having the many hours of training.
Again, I have never attended a known training facility, there were not any unless one went into the Military, or Police work when I was coming up. My "lessons" and "set ups" were all private by those I respectfully refer to as "Mentors & Elders".
Granted some of these ladies and gents were quite interesting.
I paid attention to you [Gordon] because I am reading words I heard coming up from Mentors & Elders.
Yes, this includes those that served in Vietnam and carried a Ithaca 37, and ...
"Stuff does not do what some folks read in a magazine, hear at the barbershop, read on a box of shells, or some gal's brother who knows a plumber, that knows a guy that said ____" -Ranger.
(yes I cleaned up the language)
Then I read Reviews of Awerbuck by Gordon.
Now years ago I learned of Awerbuck, and being totally honest, what got my attention, was the fact he was from South Africa.
I had Mentors & Elders from South Africa.
When I heard of what Awerbuck was teaching, I wanted to cry.
My Mentors had shared some of the same darn things, for the same darn reason.
Then I laughed when I found out Awerbuck is "not that tall" but his gal is.
I know how darn tough a "not that tall" South African is. I also know how tough a tall good looking South African lady is too.
Now I am being mentored by South Africans, and I hear how buckshot did not work in "unrests" in his country, nor did it work for dangerous game.
And again, if you drop a shell around a South African, you are not going to reach down and pick it up. That was another thing I understand Awerbuck does not allow.
So I read Gordon, Lee Lapin, and others that have attended a Awerbuck class and these things are Mentors shared with me , way back when.
Scott Rietz is another...
H&H Hunter has shared his trips going after dangerous game, and the loads for shotguns are slugs.
[Contrary to what a former member tried to sell everyone around here with 3.5" 000 buck being the ultimate extreme load from the ultimate shotgun).
Now back in the day, Winchester 1300's came in all 4 gauges. 12, 20, 28 and .410.
Now I grew up reading Ruark, and these South Africans shared with me Ruark's works and about the peoples and unrests.
So Ruark is more than just The Old Man And The Boy, to me.
No secret I have a thing for Quail, and hate feral cats. I grew with quail, and Ruark.
South African Mentors and "lesson time". They had a feral cat in a mesh cage.
I was asked if I could fell that feral cat, caught out near some quail coveys.
Sure I could, and though I was not that big, I could do one shot with a 12 ga with buckshot.
Then the Mentors put some "quail" around that mesh cage. Small balloons to replicate quail...about the size of a tennis ball.
Atop, sides...
This changed matters right fast. I had seen this 1300 in 12 ga patterned with the 00 buck load.
"Young-un, whatcha gonna do?"
I snagged the 1300 in 28 ga, and tossed in a round ball slug and took the shot.
No balloons burst, only the feral cat was felled.
The 28 ga was used a lot for defensive shooting lessons. Just like using a .22 rim-fire allows one to focus on correct basic fundamentals with less felt recoil, so will a 28 ga.
Keep in mind I grew up with Veterans of Wars, and others with Physical Limits.
So a 28 ga afforded them then, just as today, the ability to tote a shotgun that might be toted more than shot...and one that can be shot quite a bit due to less felt recoil.
Lots of deer, and other critters have been felled with a 28 ga slug.
28 ga is .550, which is not far from .54 caliber, which has a proven history.
Some of these deer were felled when deer season was open during quail season.
Tote that easy to carry 28 ga for quail, then if the opportunity arises to take deer, just change load.
I get bigger, and have a '74 SX1 that I had Nu-Line install external knurled chokes in a 28" barrel. Originally it was fixed modified of course being 28".
FWIW that gun was still running like a top after I put somewhere like 300,000 rds through it, before it was destroyed last year.
I had the .735 tube screwed in, heck I left it in for most of what did anyway, lots of skeet...
Out on the property, just a good old outdoor BBQ. Nice day, good folks.
New puppy for one of the kids, kids being kids...
Some rabid dawgs come onto property. We knew some were around, just we had not been able to run them down.
Serious mode kicked in.
The kids were ushered in with the ladies, and some older gents.
I snagged the SX1 and a box of Slugs, and hopped into the bed of the truck.
Kids are crying about that new puppy, especially the little girl it belonged to.
The puppy was being a puppy and in all the hurry, could not be carried in.
Little girl had it, but with fear let it go and ran...
I mean that truck was fired up and folks had guns, and ...
I did not miss, I felled rabid dawgs from a moving truck. I did not hit any other vehicles, structures, or anything.
Lessons from the old days.
I was mobile, and others had positioned themselves various ways to protect themselves and afford shots.
In the blink of a eye this happened and it was over with quick.
Then just "snag-n-drag" the corpses down to a burn pile and back to BBQ.
That puppy was being targeted by one rabid dawg, I did not have much of a window, but I had one.
Swing thru method ( pass through) I come from behind, matched speed and angle and had nothing in my focus but the leading edge of that rabid dawg...
I kept swinging saw daylight, slapped trigger and kept on swinging.
Think station high 4 in skeet, only ground level.
Head shot, and felled , puppy kept running...
I kept the plug in that SX1, so I had only loaded 3. I kept the gun fed loading into the mag, and never let the gun go dry.
I have never attended a class of Awerbuck, Clint Smith, Rietz, Ayoob or anyone else.
Still I run what I brung, kept the gun fed, and did not hit anything I was not supposed to.
Again, one has to access themselves and environments. One has to be one with the gun.
Investigate & Verify for you what your needs are, what gun fits you, what loads work in your gun.
I am not going to be at your gunfight - Awerbuck
Neither am I, or Gordon, or Lee, or anyone else around here.
Nor will a shotgun mfg, or shotgun shell mfg, or shotgun accessory mfg, or...
Gordon,
Thanks again sir.
Steve
diananike
Member
Federal Classic 00 9 pellet buckshot.
Sometimes I'll switch to #4 or 000 just to change it up some
Sometimes I'll switch to #4 or 000 just to change it up some
Gordon
Member
Breaking news:
I just got ahold of 60 Aquila 12 ga. Mini Slugs . While they don't feed in my pump guns well, I popped them in to a newly aquired Savage 311 with mod &mod barrels. At 20 yards I hit a one gallon paint can with both barrels -3 times! The 7/8 oz. flat point slug is supposed to be doing 1200 fps, but I suspect slower as it is pretty dang quiet (like a .22 stinger or actually more like a .32acp pistol) out of the 28" barrels of the 311H.It went 8" into a damp compressed stack of magazines which is what .45acp hard ball does. I'm in luv!
I just got ahold of 60 Aquila 12 ga. Mini Slugs . While they don't feed in my pump guns well, I popped them in to a newly aquired Savage 311 with mod &mod barrels. At 20 yards I hit a one gallon paint can with both barrels -3 times! The 7/8 oz. flat point slug is supposed to be doing 1200 fps, but I suspect slower as it is pretty dang quiet (like a .22 stinger or actually more like a .32acp pistol) out of the 28" barrels of the 311H.It went 8" into a damp compressed stack of magazines which is what .45acp hard ball does. I'm in luv!
inSight-NEO
Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
- Messages
- 842
SM-
I hope I did not offend you with some of my earlier responses to the "scenario/situation" based training encounters. I meant no disrespect and will admit, while I consider myself to be somewhat intelligent, logical and practical, I have not had extensive experience with such matters.
Have I been involved in violent encounters? Sure. Have any of these involved weapons? Yes. So, I can at least say that I have been somewhat "initiated" to this degree.
Regardless of whether or not you deem my responses as credible, my comments are based on various "scenarios" and likelihood as pertaining to the world I live in (habits, location, abilities, etc.,). This is in addition to any information I have gleaned from many, many hours spent wading through various opinions, established "facts" and research, not to mention personal experience(s). What I prefer vs others and my experiences/life vs others is far too subjective for me to say whats "right or wrong."
I hope I did not offend you with some of my earlier responses to the "scenario/situation" based training encounters. I meant no disrespect and will admit, while I consider myself to be somewhat intelligent, logical and practical, I have not had extensive experience with such matters.
Have I been involved in violent encounters? Sure. Have any of these involved weapons? Yes. So, I can at least say that I have been somewhat "initiated" to this degree.
Regardless of whether or not you deem my responses as credible, my comments are based on various "scenarios" and likelihood as pertaining to the world I live in (habits, location, abilities, etc.,). This is in addition to any information I have gleaned from many, many hours spent wading through various opinions, established "facts" and research, not to mention personal experience(s). What I prefer vs others and my experiences/life vs others is far too subjective for me to say whats "right or wrong."
Last edited:
jojo200517
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
- Messages
- 580
Heavy turkey shot in the chamber, three 00 3 inch buckshot, and two 2.75 slugs in the tube.
I figure the turkey shot will spread more for the first shot and hurt like a bitch, perhaps they will run, if not the 3 buckshots should lay serious hurt, and if I need to reach out and touch a bit more or someone decides to duck around the corner I keep pumping until I reach the slugs. I don't have any shells on a bandolier or nothing but my .45 stays loaded with 11 hollow points, and the ak47 always has 30 of those extremely over-penetrating FMJ's under it. (freakin impossible to find JHP or SP 7.62 x 39 around here)
I figure the turkey shot will spread more for the first shot and hurt like a bitch, perhaps they will run, if not the 3 buckshots should lay serious hurt, and if I need to reach out and touch a bit more or someone decides to duck around the corner I keep pumping until I reach the slugs. I don't have any shells on a bandolier or nothing but my .45 stays loaded with 11 hollow points, and the ak47 always has 30 of those extremely over-penetrating FMJ's under it. (freakin impossible to find JHP or SP 7.62 x 39 around here)
sm
member
inSight-NEO,
Hey, you and I are fine.
I apologize for replying so late.
Here is the deal: all any of us can truly share are our experiences and observations.
There are no absolutes. Internet is a faster means of communications. Today, it is real time.
Still folks have always wanted an easier softer way, instead of doing their own assessments.
Instead of investigating and verifying, they choose to follow the crowd, or what someone wrote in a magazine, or said on a TV show, or on Internet.
Folks read what a barrels says, or choke says or box of ammo, or ...
One has to be brutally honest and assess themselves , environment and tools for task.
The truth is, for some folks a shotgun is not the proper tool for task. So buck or slug loading, does not even become a concern for them.
Still some folks rush out and buy a shotgun with whatever loading because:
-Internet
-Peer Pressure
-Magazine.
-TV show
-Movie
-etc.
Why a person might even have a situation where using a primer only hull, or blank would be a useful tool for their tasks.
Some do, and actually do have blanks as part of the tools in the toolbox.
Not everything one is defending themselves from is a VCA.
Hey, you and I are fine.
I apologize for replying so late.
Here is the deal: all any of us can truly share are our experiences and observations.
There are no absolutes. Internet is a faster means of communications. Today, it is real time.
Still folks have always wanted an easier softer way, instead of doing their own assessments.
Instead of investigating and verifying, they choose to follow the crowd, or what someone wrote in a magazine, or said on a TV show, or on Internet.
Folks read what a barrels says, or choke says or box of ammo, or ...
One has to be brutally honest and assess themselves , environment and tools for task.
The truth is, for some folks a shotgun is not the proper tool for task. So buck or slug loading, does not even become a concern for them.
Still some folks rush out and buy a shotgun with whatever loading because:
-Internet
-Peer Pressure
-Magazine.
-TV show
-Movie
-etc.
Why a person might even have a situation where using a primer only hull, or blank would be a useful tool for their tasks.
Some do, and actually do have blanks as part of the tools in the toolbox.
Not everything one is defending themselves from is a VCA.
sm
member
Primer only or blanks were used to defend against tornadoes and severe thunderstorms.
This was done when I was a kid, continued to be, and again in 2008 when tornadoes were a serious problem, more than once.
Communications.
We did not have weather sirens, 911, much less cell phones when I was coming up.
Receptions for radio can be interrupted and if the wind is howling, one might not be able to hear a portable radio, or yells.
So part of the communication tool box was whistles, bells, horns and firing shots.
Just old fashioned as hunters manuals said to fire 3 shots if in trouble.
Any firearm will work, still for safety reasons a blank from a firearm, including a shotgun is another tool in the toolbox.
Primer only hulls are one easy way to make a blank.
Folks read the skies. Sure there were weather reports, still folks back then, were self reliant and knew Mother Nature did not always do what a newspaper, radio and later TV weather person said.
One can read animals as well to get an idea of what weather is going to do.
Sure bird shot works to signal neighbors with practiced plans.
Still...it might be best to fire off a "all clear" with blanks to signal allowing folks to know it was safe to come out of underground storm cellars , or even basements, or cisterns...
Take 2008 and all the terrible tornadoes that ripped through.
Again, cell phones did not always work, the reception on a radio was interrupted...
The wind is howling...
So blanks were used along with lights, marine air horns, whistles and vehicle horns.
Practiced plans...
Call it old school, but it works.
I personally carried a Model 94 in 30-30 for my long gun, and all that I was doing in this weather, and more than once.
Some of my loads, were blanks.
Still some shotguns were used, including single shots.
See, we forget we might be defending against something else besides criminals to stay safe.
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Floods, Fires...etc.
Popcorn Loads.
Basically replace pellets with popcorn kernels. Pigeons for instance carry disease.
One does not go popping off live rounds in a barn with farm and ranch equipment.
It does not matter if the tractor is a old old John Deere or a new piece of John Deere equipment worth $100,000 maybe $300,000.
You can rid a barn or shed of pigeons for instance and not tear anything up.
Rules of Safety apply, some common sense as well.
Making a fire.
I just had a brain fade, so I need to get this correct before I share how this is done...
Still there is a trick(s) to using a shotgun shell to make a fire.
Hypothermia can set in at 40* F.
The ability to defend against Hypothermia might mean using a shotgun in that defensive manner.
Define: "Defense"
*smile*
This was done when I was a kid, continued to be, and again in 2008 when tornadoes were a serious problem, more than once.
Communications.
We did not have weather sirens, 911, much less cell phones when I was coming up.
Receptions for radio can be interrupted and if the wind is howling, one might not be able to hear a portable radio, or yells.
So part of the communication tool box was whistles, bells, horns and firing shots.
Just old fashioned as hunters manuals said to fire 3 shots if in trouble.
Any firearm will work, still for safety reasons a blank from a firearm, including a shotgun is another tool in the toolbox.
Primer only hulls are one easy way to make a blank.
Folks read the skies. Sure there were weather reports, still folks back then, were self reliant and knew Mother Nature did not always do what a newspaper, radio and later TV weather person said.
One can read animals as well to get an idea of what weather is going to do.
Sure bird shot works to signal neighbors with practiced plans.
Still...it might be best to fire off a "all clear" with blanks to signal allowing folks to know it was safe to come out of underground storm cellars , or even basements, or cisterns...
Take 2008 and all the terrible tornadoes that ripped through.
Again, cell phones did not always work, the reception on a radio was interrupted...
The wind is howling...
So blanks were used along with lights, marine air horns, whistles and vehicle horns.
Practiced plans...
Call it old school, but it works.
I personally carried a Model 94 in 30-30 for my long gun, and all that I was doing in this weather, and more than once.
Some of my loads, were blanks.
Still some shotguns were used, including single shots.
See, we forget we might be defending against something else besides criminals to stay safe.
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Floods, Fires...etc.
Popcorn Loads.
Basically replace pellets with popcorn kernels. Pigeons for instance carry disease.
One does not go popping off live rounds in a barn with farm and ranch equipment.
It does not matter if the tractor is a old old John Deere or a new piece of John Deere equipment worth $100,000 maybe $300,000.
You can rid a barn or shed of pigeons for instance and not tear anything up.
Rules of Safety apply, some common sense as well.
Making a fire.
I just had a brain fade, so I need to get this correct before I share how this is done...
Still there is a trick(s) to using a shotgun shell to make a fire.
Hypothermia can set in at 40* F.
The ability to defend against Hypothermia might mean using a shotgun in that defensive manner.
Define: "Defense"
*smile*
sm
member
Actually they stuck a golf course on a perfectly good piece of land where a rifle, pistol , or shotgun range should be.
*smile*
chuckusaret
member
My HD Mossberg is loaded as follows: Chamber=00 Buck, magazine= 7 rifled slugs. I read somewhere that birdshot was for the birds, buckshot was for the bucks, and slugs were for the thugs.
stiletto raggio
Member
And slugs will also penetrate plenty of walls, which is great for inadvertantly killing or wounding people next door, or others in your own home. The only thing that penetrates housing materials further are AP rifle rounds (think .30-06). Having slugs as reloads is one thing, having a tube full of them for across-the-room shooting is another thing entirely. Bottom line: unless you live alone out in the boonies, using a shotgun with slugs is irresponsible verging on reckless.
inSight-NEO
Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
- Messages
- 842
I agree. To me, slugs are great if you trust your aim (particularly at night) and are not concerned about heavy penetration. As I mentioned before, I believe using slugs for HD may negate the primary advantage of the shotgun; ie., being able to use such rounds as buckshot, for instance, which are very powerful and yet, do not require nearly as much "aim" when compared to handgun rounds or slug rounds.
Now, I do understand that even the shotgun requires aiming. But, compared to any handgun or slug equipped shotgun, the buckshot equipped shotgun is certainly more forgiving by nature.
Lets face it, given the various affects a violent HD encounter can have on ones body and/or state of mind, several inches vs roughly 1/4" to 3/4" (POI leeway potential) can make quite the difference.
To me, its not always about which round is the most effective; rather, which round is the most effective and practical (given certain situations.)
Hungry Seagull
member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2009
- Messages
- 2,167
Either kind will do fine but one would think that the cleanup company is going to have a one hell of a unpleasant cleanup callout.
My problem is more basic, early warning. All the weapons in the world wont matter when Bad Guy is on top of you in your own bed.
My problem is more basic, early warning. All the weapons in the world wont matter when Bad Guy is on top of you in your own bed.
inSight-NEO
Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
- Messages
- 842
Well said...and very true.
mgregg85
Member
I use both, the last two rounds in my 590's mag tube are slugs.
tokarev762
Member
For the short range in the house, the distance that I would be using one of my shotguns is measured in feet and a handgun is closer to me always. Even with the shotgun by the bedside. When I do get the shotgun in my hands (Yes, I've practiced) I think that the five to seven rounds of low recoil 00 buck in them would serve my purposes. Fast recovery between shots and the speard would only be 2 or 3 inches across. I would think that the rounds would act like a fragmented slug at those distances. With the open design of my house, there wouldn't be anything that I would have to shoot through and if, for some who knows reason, the bad guy/house invader is wearing body armor, the center mass hits would be breaking bones and traumatising him/them until I find his/thier head(s) in front of the bead. There are more buckshot rounds in the butt cuff and a bandelier with more full power buckshot rounds by them.
Any slugs fired would be from one of my handguns and if a distance shot was somehow needed outside, I would be grabbing one of my rifles for it. The action type and caliber would be depending on the need.
Any slugs fired would be from one of my handguns and if a distance shot was somehow needed outside, I would be grabbing one of my rifles for it. The action type and caliber would be depending on the need.
Mossberg88
Member
I would love to see a person with slugs loaded miss their target within their house...say hello to a bowling ball sized hole in the wall
My 16ga Savage is loaded with buckshot for home defense. The reasoning behind this is because it'd be nearly impossible to miss anyone in the hallway leading to our bedroom given how narrow it is (4ft). The other reason is that I live in a duplex in the city and I don't need to be putting giant holes in my neighbor's house.
theotherwaldo
Member
Buck and Bayonet.
jaholder1971
Member
I usually load whatever 00 buck I can find, but my 590 and Federal Premium 2 3/4" Magnum #1 buck throws an incredibly tight pattern for a cylinder bore. If I could find a steady supply of these I'd use them exclusively.
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