Do you use slugs or buck for home defense?

[hirundo82]

First 3 in the tube are #4 buck, last 2 are 00.

There are 2 more 00 and 3 slugs on the stock.

 

[maskedman504]

Mossberg 500 (stock-less) w/ 00 buck 2 3/4

Saiga 12 - 12 round mag with 00 buck / 5 round mag with slugs

 

[KSCCHTrainer]

Mossy 500, 18.5" rifled barrel. Three 2 3/4" Winchester Ranger low recoil 00 buck up first and two 3" slugs in the mag. Stock sleeve holds three more slugs and two 00 buckshot (different color casings so easy to pick out).

 

[Rshooter]

Remington 2 3/4 slugs. If they get up I am calling Arnold.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Rshooter, that is funny!

If they pour back together like liquid metal Im gonna have to find me a larger ordinance.

 

[Mike U.]

7 Winchester Ranger Reduced Recoil 00 buck in the chamber/tube, boatload of Brenneke KO slugs on deck.

KO's are on hand just in case Bigfoot kicks my door in.

 

[stiletto raggio]

No4 or T buckshot. Anything bigger poses overpenetration risks. If I need range and penetration, I have rifles. I keep some slugs on hand, but unless you go to a rifled barrel (which ruins the patterns with shot) no slug will come close to the precision of a rifle.

 

[ds92]

Both!

I usually equip my shotgun with 1 slug in the chamber, or first in the mag tube, followed by 4 rounds 00 buck

 

[Hungry Seagull]

I cannot consider using a rifle inside my home. The Barrel has to be 22 inches or shorter. A carbine or submachinegun will certainly be considered for HD but is a bit "Much" IMHO.

That being said, I really like those PS90's and FN's with their nice clips and ammuntion good at whatever range you can find a BG at.

 

[kmrcstintn]

right now both shotguns have field barrels, but I have a small stash of Remington 12 ga 2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 buckshot, Winchester reduced recoil 12ga 2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 buckshot, and Brenneke 12ga K-O 2 3/4" slugs on hand (primarily for defense use while on hunting grounds--pissed off critter control); pretty soon I will have a pseudo-security barrel for the Mossberg (shortened field barrel) and I will most likely get some 2 3/4" #4 buckshot for the domicile

www.tacticalshotgun.ca <--good info

 

[sm]

Slugs.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I do not yet own a shotgun. Living in a connected townhouse, my plan is to use #8 birdshot with a couple 00 Buck in the mag, along with some 00 buck and slugs on a butt cuff. I haven't heard anyone mention birdshot yet. Am I crazy here?

 

[inSight-NEO]

Even though I can certainly see the value of using slugs, I believe that choosing this particular round over buckshot somewhat negates the primary advantage of using a shotgun in the first place, particularly when it comes to HD.

While I can admit the possible need for slugs when dealing with law enforcement, military or hostage rescue scenarios, for civilian HD needs slugs are somewhat unnecessary, IMHO. So for me, its buckshot all the way.

 

[andcam]

I use both...00 buck and then brennekke slugs: buck, slug, buck, slug, etc.

It's what we did overseas and it works. (Slugs came from a "care package")

 

[soldier147]

this may sound ignorant....but i don't care : if you use a slug, don't miss...hit them where they will fall and stay immobilized, if you are worried about collateral damage other than family members....then buckshot would be a better choice. I'm not fond of my neighbors anyway, but I would hate to be responsible for an accidental death

 

[inSight-NEO]

I use both...00 buck and then brennekke slugs: buck, slug, buck, slug, etc.

Ahh, the deadly mix of slugs + buckshot. Now, if only I agreed with this....

In my mind, particularly given the high stress nature of a violent HD encounter when/if dealing with multiple individuals, the 50-50 thing just might result in a 50% miss ratio (in addition to dealing with the relative differences in recoil). Not acceptable to me when lives may be on the line.

I can see having several rounds of 00 in the mag tube and possibly 2 slug rounds in a speedfeed stock or something similar. But, to mix things up?...nah. Im not saying whether its right or wrong; its just not my thing.

 

[andcam]

understand completely...i just use it because it's what i've used before (with success).

 

[sohcgt2]

Neither, I have #4 shot for threats indoors, those who are outdoors pose no threat. If I have advance warning of someone trying to gain uninvited entrance then bullets from 135 grains to 230 grains are readily available.

 

[RetiredLawman]

McGavin makes more sense than we give him credit for. I leave whatever i went hunting with in the magazine. Since I am an uplands hunter, I would use mostly #6s and #7.5s, as that is my hunting loads. Thirty years of investigating home invasion shootings leaves me with a healthy respect for #6s as it is very unforgiving. I've seen perps blasted with buckshot make it to do it again. The reason is that there are few entry wounds to patch up. Those #6s make hamburger out of the impact zone even with heavy clothing on. Some make it, some don't. None of them continue to be a threat after absorbing the impact of any shotgun blast. Most are fatalities. Anyway, a load of shot of any size stops the threat, which is the anticipated purpose.

 

[sm]

Re: Slugs.

I am just a dumb old southern boy.
Just a J.Q. Public, that was never in Law Enforcement and still has his Draft Card as I was not selected for the free trip to Vietnam.

I was born into a hi-risk environment.

No gun schools back in the day, instead my lessons (training) and set ups (stages) were private.
Those that came before me, shared years and years of experience of having been in this environment.

Not only did these share lessons, also some other interesting ladies and gents, with years and years of experience from being in wars, conflicts and being in police and military.
Not all persons were from the south USA. Nor were they from the USA period.

WE speak of folks accessing their environment and in doing so having Mindset, Skill sets, "then" Toolsets for their tasks.

I had a mentor from South Africa, royally chew me out when I was a teenager ( around age 13 or 14).

The "set up" was in a structure, with the recording of screams, and fighting, of someone close to me, being kidnapped, and this female putting up a fight.

Simple, kidnap the lady, and use her to force others to do things. The easiest way to bypass alarms and vault/safe doors.

I got yelled at for picking up a shell I had dropped.
"In my country if you pick up something dropped, you may lose a hand, arm, get seriously injured or die!"
This is the clean version.

( I understand Awerbuck does not allow folks to pick up a dropped shotgun shell either. He too has experiences from being South African).

My instructions "stop the threat".

This recording was an actual recording of someone close to me, that in real life could be kidnapped to force me to do things.

The recordings are informing me, she is being slapped, and cut with a knife, and even the sounds of her spitting and cursing them, and fighting back and ...

Targets were not face on, not were all stationary, and the greatest percentage were 3 dimensional.

My largest target presentation one time, was a knee, so I shot the knee with a slug.
Another time, It was the head. The head would "sneak-peak", and I used a slug to go through a cabinet and hit the head.

My tools for tasks.

You see, I was raised with 3 Rules of Gun Safety, Rule 3 was split to make Rule 4 later on.
I was raised on a hot range. Besides the 3 rules of Gun Safety, some other rules, like if you screwed up, you owned it. No excuses, learn from it. No boorish behavior, because if you are going to carry/use guns, then you cannot be a arse...

With lessons and set ups, no start buzzers. In real life, there is no start buzzer like a Pact Timer.

My "start" could be anything...

i.e. I had a lady partner, and I was supposed to met her and others at a private range, which had shoot houses.
Just to get together and shoot the bull and have Pizza and ...

So I show up, and I have shared so many times, my concerns have been entering and exiting a structure and answering a door.
Meaning I cannot go around with a long gun slung.

I enter the shoot house and hell broke loose. I went from just meeting folks to have Pizza to a serious set up.

My lady partner had been recorded, and this set up was BGs trying to get information out of her about me, and other things.
Hitting her, slapping her, and they were going to rape her, as they went about to get this information ,then kidnap her to use against me and mine, and continue to rape her during this whole, awful ordeal.

I walk into this. The recording explained what I needed to know.
This shoot house was arranged to replicate a setting familiar to me, my lady partner, and some others.

BGs were full size targets (scarecrows basically) and rigged where they would move.

Yes, one BG is atop a female scarecrow which represented my lady partner.
There were Three BGs total.

Yes, I took the shot with a slug, from a shotgun in a location in that structure, that replicated a real one.
I went for the head shot, but had to wait until BG atop her, raised up a bit.

Then the other two BGs were presented where I had clear shots. They were shooting in my direction.

Err...I showed up for Pizza and ended up having a serious set up lesson to do.
I was dressed in casual slacks, oxford shirt, penny loafers.
The only thing different , was being handed a pair of clear shooting glasses and foam ear plugs.


I do not have a problem with buckshot. For one, I choose to have some choke, about .15 to .19 meaning approx Skeet II to Modified choke, depending on bore diameter.

Still, I have had buckshot fail in the real world, shooting live critters.

Just me, then again my tasks and environments shape me - just as everyone else should be shaped by theirs.

Go set up a stage as I have described, complete with the recording of wife, girlfriend, daughter.
Keep in mind, I often had no idea I was going to shoot a set up like this. I just showed up and it was a set up for me to shoot. Just like it happens in the real world.

One minute you are coming home to have pizza, upon entering, you discover other serious matters.

Whatcha gonna do?

 

[AKElroy]

Neither. 2 oz. 3" magnum #4 or #6 turkey loads. At 10', it's the definitive answer. If I need to protect something outside of my home with a shotgun, it's 4 buck.

 

[inSight-NEO]

Go set up a stage as I have described, complete with the recording of wife, girlfriend, daughter.
Keep in mind, I often had no idea I was going to shoot a set up like this. I just showed up and it was a set up for me to shoot. Just like it happens in the real world.

This is an interesting scenario, but Im wondering how "realistic" it is, within the HD realm, given that it is somewhat pre-staged. In other words, if someone were to break into the home, Im doubting that anybody would wait for the previously described event to take place before arming themselves and/or taking action. Also, unless you are coming home from the range (for instance) with a loaded shotgun and stumble upon such before mentioned atrocities taking place, what happens then? Sure, you could load up a few slugs, if they were not in the gun already, but is this scenario very likely? How many of us come home with a loaded shotgun? Im sure that it is something to think about, but Im going to put this in the category of possible but not probable.

I guess what Im saying is, for most HD situations, which would more than likely involve defense and not necessarily a precision oriented offense (as per the rape in progress or hostage situation described in the earlier post), buckshot is probably ideal. Nothing wrong with having a few slugs handy for dropping in the chamber if necessary, but I just dont think that it should go beyond that. I mean, most encounters necessitating the shotgun, in my mind, would involve a grab and go type scenario rather than a "break in and clear/eliminate" type scenario similar to an LE/hostage involved situation. I could go on, but Im sure you get the gist. Of course, if all I had were slugs I probably wouldnt complain. I just think their application, in terms of HD use, are just too specific to be considered for primary duty.

One minute you are coming home to have pizza, upon entering, you discover other serious matters.

Whatcha gonna do?

If I came home to have pizza and discovered "serious" matters at hand, I would more than likely be armed with a pistol, not a shotgun. So, at that point, the slug vs buckshot debate would become mute.

 

[SCMtns]

Actually, I really like the idea of loading slug-buck-slug-buck. Never heard of that before. If you go from needing one to the other, you're never more than a trigger pull away from it.

I'm not LE or military, and don't claim to have ever used a weapon in self-defense, but I like the idea of something that I won't have to try and keep track of when my heart rate is near max and my hands are shaking and I've got tunnel vision and I think I might die in the next moment. Given how fast it's possible to run a pump gun (which is what I've always had), I would think that in most situations, if you can get one on target you can get two. Does that sound likely? 80% chance of that being true? 5%?

I don't see it working well in the situation sm presented, though, which was basically a hostage-rescue. If you can't keep track of whether the next pull of the trigger is going to send a hail of .33 caliber balls or one 1oz chunk of lead at the target, then you could wind up either shooting a good guy or being terminally hesitant. As usual with defensive tactics, there's advantages, and there's disadvantages...

I say all this, but of course I know nothing. I just hang out and punch holes in paper with my friends, with a heart rate down around resting and not a care in the world.

 

[inSight-NEO]

If you go from needing one to the other, you're never more than a trigger pull away from it.

True. But, consider that if you need one and not the other, you are two trigger pulls away from your objective. Plus, in my mind, using a dual ammo configuration is just adding one more thing to keep track of unless extensively practiced.

I guess I just consider slugs to be "specialty" ammo and thus, belonging in the category of "back-up" or "as needed" ammunition. Its certainly enough, given a stressful HD encounter, to deal with safety control, trigger control, aim, weapon "location" (to body), concealment, BG location, etc., etc. I personally would not want to add ammo count/type acknowledgement to the mix!

Given that most HD encounters, simply from what I have read, are over within a few shots and involve close quarters, I personally cannot justify the need for mixing ammo unless dealing with a "pre-planned" encounter (ie., hostage rescue for instance). Even then, I would choose a primary load and save something else for secondary purpose. Of course, given this particular situation, Id opt for an assault rifle.

 

[Gordon]

Well I used to use #4 buck shot after Vietnam issue 00 buck brass shells which were pretty darn good- but not available and I was ISSUED #4 Federals as a fed. I never shot anybody as an LEO with a SG however and after my short carreer was a ranch foreman on a large remote ranch on the Ca. coast. I swore by the #4 buck in a Ithaca 37 when I patrolled and shot AT quite a lot of dogs, lions ,coyotes ect. with piss poor results even with what I considered good hits.So I switched to 00, better but no cigar! I switched to a 25-35 Win 94 and I started getting a body count -DRN.
I started useing 00 again in the early SOF 3 gun matches ect. and playing around with it and then slugs, but was not impressed with a SG as an anti personal weapon really.I thought I was lucky carrying an Ithaca 37 one tour as I was a Swedish K NOT to have engaged with it.
When I reenterted training in 1999 with LA and others Louis soon brought the SG again to the forefront.As I progressed these last 10 years , a couple years ago the light went on and I switched to Remington Managed Recoil slugs. The trans sonic .73" 1 oz of unhardened lead is pin point accurate to at least 75 yards and allows quick follow up shots,same principle as why a .45acp is about at the top of PRACTICAL pistol defensive calibers.
I want to account for every projo I release and am pretty good at quickly computing the vector of a soft slug which really doesn't penetrate much more than faster hardened large buckshot.Anybody taking anyone of mine hostage under 25 yards better damn beware-I'll take the shot! I'll wait for the backstop angle too!
Now I admit I use buckshot in doubles and such and have used #4 in a 10 ga a couple years ago on a coon in the hen house. I Used 00 in a Nightvisioned 1100 12ga, a few years ago on coyotes (3) after the lambs, but selected a slug on the last shot as once again the buck didn't dump them.I haven't given up on buck but in the 2 pumps (an OLD 870 I near wore out that was worn when Robar rebuilt it in late 80s and a tricked out Nova) I keep out of the safes , I have Rem. Managed recoil LEO ammo and some 00 in the side saddles. A LOT of progressive Ca. depts use Rem or Federal low velocity slugs for the same reason I do. Jim Cirullo told me that a rifled slug puts someone down more reliably than anything he has yet seen, Scott Reitz told me the same thing.