Home defense with childern in the house

[thefamcnaj]

Ok highroaders this isnt a: best manstoper, baddest bullet, or most manly gun, debate I'm trying to start here or a caliber war.
I used to sleep with a glock 21 45acp on the nightstand. But with the new house me and the family moved into I've switched to my trusty ole remmy 870The reason I swithced is because if I walk into a bad situation from my bedroom towards the front door my kids room are in that same direction. The biggest window and the front door are approx. three feet to the left of my both my kids bedrooms. Thats would be the two easiest points of entry for a bg. The kids are taught if they here something not right in the night to get under their beds(stay low).
I was scared the 45 acp could penetrated in to their bedrooms. So I had the remmy loaded with 00 buck, but I got scared of over penetration again. Now I'm loaded up with #4 bird shot. My room is roughly 25 to 30 feet away from theirs. What I'm trying to achieve is to stop bg without sending lead into the kids room.
In a perfect world- when the bad guy hears the pump action he'll run, but if he doesnt God forbid and I have to take a shot, I want to stop him. Do you guys think #4 bird shot is a happy compromise between stopping bg and limiting the possibility of something going into the kids rooms?

 

[Adam]

I believe that we must use loads that will STOP the bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate the walls eventually. We must be sure to hit the intended target and do not shoot into the walls behind which our loved ones are. Bird shot #4 will penetrate something like 2-3 pieces of drywall in my opinion, which means that it will not penetrate deep enough to reach any vital organs on human. Sure You will make them bleed, but they may still walk around after being shot. This You don't want. Good luck.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Anything that penetrate a person will more than penetrate a wall, look up Box O Truth.com
learn your lanes of fire and teach your kids to seek cover.

 

[Skribs]

I was reading here that whatever you use that meets the recommended 8-12" of penetration on a person is also going to go through a lot of drywall. Personally, I'd think a shotgun, with the greater chance of stray pellets and 0 expansion in each pellet, is more likely to cause a friendly fire issue (if the weapon is loaded with something that will actually stop someone). That said, a pistol is probably the worst, because overpenetration seems to be a bigger issue after going through drywall than before. My vote would be a small-caliber rifle.

Disclaimer: this is based on the extraordinary amount of reading on the internet that I have done while bored at work, and not on any personal experience.

EDIT: I don't remember where I found it (search history is at work, and I'm at home), but I saw somewhere else that #4 buck will about penetrate "just enough", and anything under that you're likely to under-penetrate and not stop the target. This is also what the guys at my local range say, and #4 is what I have loaded in my HD shotgun.

 

[thefamcnaj]

The kids are taught to stay low under their beds or in their closet lying down. It just scares me at the angle at which i'll be shooting from from my bed room towards the front of the house. I just know in panic mode that I may not make the type of shots I make at the range. I also so know that I could not live with myself if one of my children were hurt during a home invasion with something out of one of my fire arms. I was thinking with 5 shots of #4 bird shot that any normal man would not be able to continue his attack. I guess I could go 4 bird shots and one 00buck just in case.

 

[bigfatdave]

Anything that penetrates a person will more than penetrate a wall

Anything that penetrates a person will more than penetrate a wall

Anything that penetrates a person will more than penetrate a wall

Worth repeating, apparently.

And no amount of wishful thinking or hardware buying will make that fact go away. There is no magic bullet, magic gun, or magic tactic that can overcome the core concept.

Use the weapon you are most proficient with and don't count on firing in any particular direction.

 

[Shadow 7D]

But BFD
there are some that claim to..
and usually don't and don't very poorly

 

[tarosean]

The kids are taught to stay low under their beds or in their closet lying down. It just scares me at the angle at which i'll be shooting from from my bed room towards the front of the house.

you could fortify the wall (s) that are in that direction if this is your concern.

Almost anything is better than plain air sandwiched between two pieces of drywall..

 

[psyshack]

Move the child/children's bedrooms if at all possible. They need to be the most neutral bedroom/rooms in the house.

 

[Spirit 1]

If it was me and it was my kids I'd do as suggested by Tarosean & fortify the walls. Line the inside with either dry 2X6 or double layer of 2x4, with alternate horizontal/vertical run on 2x4's. That double 2x4's gives 3 1/2" of douglas fir, plus the studs, to absorb inertia of whatever pellet is used.

For that matter a person could drop the sheetrock on one side and fill the entire wall space with 2x4's on edge, same as the studs, plus a layer of new 2x4's outside of drywall after it's replaced. That will give 5 1/2" of solid wood, not counting sheetrock, but only increase dimension by 1 3/4". A doubled exterior layer of alternating 2x4's, plus the inner wall fortification, gives 7 1/4" of solid wood, but only decreases room dimensions by 3 1/2".

A solid wood exterior type door on their room would be better than the skimpy luan mahogany interior door.

Plus the kids can nail all kinds of stuff to the wall, even a dart board, to personalize their room while doing no damage. If you sell the home later it's easy to pull down the external 2x's and putty the nail holes.

 

[WingOfWar]

I'm damn sure there is lethal/nonlethal round out there that will fit your needs.

There's a giant market for this type of stuff; so if it's not here now, it will be very soon. Over pen. is a serious issue for law, so there's that stuff to use.

 

[Carne Frio]

1. Go here :

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

2. Read the article, especially the bottom of page 2.

Summary: Bird shot is for the birds.

 

[beatledog7]

Read and re-read this thread. No doubt ammo makers are hard at work trying to solve the lethality vs. over-penetration challenge, but for those who find themselves in the OP's situation the more practicable solution to this is better walls and/or a better floorplan, not better ammo.

 

[Sav .250]

I understand your concern for the safety of your family but you may be over thinking the "what if."

The situation could be a life or death one so #4 bird shot would not be my first choice. If your stuck on your 870, go with the 00 Buck or the 45 acp.
Some folks just can`t make a decision.

If your still worried , do nothing and pay the price.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Take low cover behind your bed and you will be shooting at an upward angle. Anything that makes it through the wall will go safely over the heads of anyone sleeping in the ajoining bedrooms.

 

[El Mariachi]

Great little read on the Box 'o Truth. Thanx. But now I wonder.....is aiming for the face and/or head an excercise is frustration? Or will the virtue of a having a 2-1/2"--->3-1/2" pattern make that idea realistically feasible?.....

 

[thefamcnaj]

Sav .250, I'll never just do nothing and go unarmed. At the same time I'm trying to be as responsible as possible.A new floor plan is out of the question because well the house is what it is. I'm only worried if some one comes in the front. If they come in the back I can fire at will as there is no bedrooms at the back of the house and no houses for 600 yards behind me. I'm not trying to be stubborn or picky but I'm no builder and know nothing of construction. I'm also aware there is no magic bullet.
All I can figure is if some one comes into the front I can take cover behind the island bar in the kitchen and like a previous person stated in the thread I can shoot upward.
We do have our "get low, get small drill" that we practice. I guess in a home invasion situation I'll just have to trust that my kids will do what they are practiced in doing and God willing I'll take the safest smartest shot that I can take.
I'm going to take: an old door, some denim, milk jugs and wet news paper out and mark off the distance from my bed room and the kitchen counter(I'd most likely take cover behind) to the kids room and take some shots with various rounds through the remmy. I'm hoping this non scientific test will lead me to feel more comfortable in what ammo I choose. These same back yard test led me to choosing the hornady critical defense as my pitol ammo of choice. I know they are far from scientific but will be as close as I can get to simulating a possible situation inside my home as far as results from exact distances.

 

[Shadow 7D]

And you haven't checked out the box o truth yet, have you???

 

[thefamcnaj]

Everytime I click the link my computer freezes up. Its a high point

 

[Shadow 7D]

google it
its WELL worth the effort

everything you claim to want to do, they have probably done, linked in with references to big names in guns, and taken alot of pics of it.

 

[gamestalker]

I've always had little one's around, even now my Wife and I have our Grand Children. I have more than one option at my quick disposal and have regularly practiced and trained to handle a S.D. circumstances. My primary weapon is my S&W 66-5 loaded with 158 gr. Gold Dots, and secondary to that is one of my 870's loaded with 3" magnums with staggered #4 buck, copper plated BB, and then four OO buck rounds just in case. And finally my Wife's weapon are a Taurus 608 loaded with 158 gr. Gold Dots, and a 20 ga. 870 packed full of 3" #4 buck. My alarm system is 4 dogs that hear everything and produce a distintive bark that tells me, it's not a false alarm.
A well prepared individual is not likely to become a victim. I've been there and have not fallen victim to such deadly intentions, more than once or twice too, because I was prepared. My approach is pretty simple in that, I expect the bad guy and don't allow myself to be surprised. They are out there, and if they know we are out there, they will likely choose a different potential victim, which is why I don't carry all of mine concealed. But what they don't see is also what they don't expect, and I always have that back up option at arms reach as well. Bottom line, flip the circumstances so that the perp is the one surprised, not you!

 

[ATBackPackin]

Here are a couple of things you can think about trying.

1. Try making the front door a hard target. One thing that can help and is cheap is a door security bar. If they can't get in the front door then they will either leave, hopefully they choose this, or try another avenue, most likely the back door.

2. I use some outlet remotes that I have lights plugged into strategically around the house. I can turn those lights on from anywhere in the house to either make them bolt or at least distract them until I can get the upper hand. I also have one plugged into a radio with the volume all the way up.


Look around your house and figure out what you can do to make them go where you want so it works to your advantage, hopefully this will never be needed. The idea is to make sure it's not a fair fight in your favor. Reinforcing the walls in the kids room is a fantastic idea, do you have any friends that could help with that?

Best of luck man.
Shawn

 

[Warp]

If it will reliably stop an assailant it will go through the walls. Birdshot is NOT the best answer to this problem

 

[TheProf]

1. If you can't strengthen the bedroom wall, try placing bookshelves along that wall. Fill the bookshelves with heavy hardback books. You can buy old used books by bulk usually from your local library or from used book stores.
Buy a couple of really old outdated encyclopedia sets...at really low prices.

2. Think multiple layers of defense. Door bar to reinforce the front door, Alarm system, arrangement of living room furniture to slow down a home invasion...etc.

 

[SimplyChad]

in and a half plywood also would help.