Homeland Security using Hi Point Carbine?

[mp510]

Several local officers bought these, because of the price. They were bought directly from Hi-Point on an LE purchase plan, and included a laser, muzzle brake, red dot sight, case, buttstock mag holders, (I believe) 5 mags, and sling. I don't know if these are hand selected if bought directly on an LE purchase, but all have run well. I have one from this purchase, and it's done an excellent job. I won't tell you the cost on an open forum, but if Hi-Point is contacted directly on an LE purchase, the price is VERY attractive, particularly considering all the extras it comes with.

I personally know of one that is over 3000 rounds without malfunction, and hasn't been cleaned. The owner is trying to see how far it will go before falling apart. This particular carbine went to the WV State Police Academy rifle course, and fired 1000 rounds in a week without failure. The owner was laughed at the beginning of the week, but after the other carbines and rifles quit running, the little Hi-Point earned some respect. The ammo used has all been Federal American Eagle 115FMJ and Federal 124 gr Hydra-shok (although I've run a fair amount of Gold Dot +P through mine as well). Stay away from Bosnian, Chinese, Russian, UMC, junk ammo, and your probability of success will go way up.

I think a lot of the bashing done here is by folks without personal experience. Yeah, I have AR's and other higher dollar rifles/carbines, and the quality is higher. The Hi-Point is a case, though, where you get a lot more than you pay for. If I didn't have a lot of bucks to spend, I could do a lot worse for a defense carbine.

From the factory, every hi-point comes with a sling, 1 magazine, and the scope rail. They include a catalog from which to buy the myzzle break, laser, pouch, and mags. I have seen some shops selling 995's with accessories attached to them as well.

 

[hkmp5g17]

From the factory, every hi-point comes with a sling, 1 magazine, and the scope rail. They include a catalog from which to buy the myzzle break, laser, pouch, and mags. I have seen some shops selling 995's with accessories attached to them as well.

Not so- just looked through my Valor Corp (big distributor) catalog- and you can get them in several accesory packages.

 

[tg_26101]

From the factory, every hi-point comes with a sling, 1 magazine, and the scope rail. They include a catalog from which to buy the myzzle break, laser, pouch, and mags. I have seen some shops selling 995's with accessories attached to them as well.

But they don't come with 5 mags, nylon case, laser, muzzle brake, etc. I have an FFL, am a dealer, and know what Hi-Points come with. What was sold directly to LE is NOT a package available from the factory. The LE direct price, again, is MUCH lower than anything Hi-Point offers to the general public; you couldn't buy the accessories alone for anything near what they paid for their carbines fully outfitted. The owner of Hi-Point, in my opinion, is very civic minded in what he's offered to the LEO's in my area.

 

[444]

There have been numerous discussions on this board concerning Hi-Point carbines. This post in this thread is the ONLY post I have ever read on ANY on-line gun forum from someone that claims actual first hand experience with one that doesn't work.
I have one. I bought it with the laser and a number of magazines as well as a case of PMC ammo for $75. I added a small scope that I saw that was already in the mount for another tiny price. I have shot mine a fair amount and never had the slightest probem with it, or any of the magazines.
In the year or so leading up to Y2K, the small local gun dealer in the town where I was living sold hundreds of these Hi-Point carbines, and this was one dealer in the small town of Pahrump Nevada. He was averaging over 100 a month at one point. He told me that out of all the Hi-Points he ever sold (including handguns), he only had one come back with a problem. He called Hi-Point, in two days they sent him the parts, and then walked him through the repair on the phone (he is not a gunsmith).

Again, this wouldn't be my choice as a serious duty weapon. I don't generally buy cheap weapons. If I wanted to carry a 9mm carbine, I have a Colt AR15 in 9mm with 16", 11.5" barrels as well as a suppressed upper. My 11.5" and the supressed uppers are both flat tops which have Aimpoint red dots on them. But, again, I think the Hi-Point would work fine if that's what you have to work with.
Years ago, during these dicussions, I used to advise people to buy the Hi-Point carbine if they wanted a 9mm carbine. At the time I had three, including a Ruger PC9. The Hi-Point shot as well as the other two and cost a fraction of what they other two cost.

 

[355sigfan]

As an leo I would not want any cop to have one of those pos's. First off their pistol caliber pop guns. If I need a long gun I need stopping power, accuracy and the ability to engage targets and longer range. Their overgrown handguns. Second the Highpoints are the worst of their breed. Being literally disposable guns.
Pat

 

[tg_26101]

As an leo I would not want any cop to have one of those pos's. First off their pistol caliber pop guns. If I need a long gun I need stopping power, accuracy and the ability to engage targets and longer range. Their overgrown handguns. Second the Highpoints are the worst of their breed. Being literally disposable guns.
Pat

Not every department works under the same guidelines. At the time the local's got into these, they were forbidden to use a carbine in a rifle caliber. They had to be pistol caliber to be used in our city (the department AR's for general issue were in 9mm). For that matter, the local's here are not allowed to use 45ACP, even in an off duty gun. Just because it's what you use where you live/work, not everyone is under the same guidelines.

A 9mm 124 gr +P departs a Hi-Point at around 1600 FPS (I've chronographed it personally), which exceeds .357 Magnum from a handgun, which is generally considered a pretty darn good stopper. The accuracy I've seen from the Hi-Point is every bit as good as a Ruger PC, Marlin Camp, Beretta Storm, or any similar pistol caliber carbine at distances they were intended. It's also much easier to hit with a shoulder fired weapon than a handgun for most officers, and the small size of the Hi-Point allows it to be used in place of a handgun for many situations. I can also used the included laser to shoot from the hip, with all shots touching at 20 yards.

I give up on this; too many people that will let what they "think" get in the way of actual facts and performance. There are way too many "experts" here that won't consider that their personal opinion just may not be what everyone experiences.

 

[Doug S]

This thread deserves a pic. My Hi-Point came with the compensator and laser sight (as well as the sling and scope mount), although as you can see in the picture, I haven't put them on. All for $235, and this price is from one of the higher priced shops. It isn't pretty but it seems to work, and the looks tend to grow on you like those of a Glock. Seriously though, the magazine does not promote confidence in this firearm. The bullets have a natural tendency to point down, and you must make a conscious effort to push on the rear of the round to seat them correctly. Nevertheless, they seem to function reliably even with the crappy mag.

 

[Slimjim]

.45FMJoe,
I have the same experience with the hi-point 995 carbine. I got mine a while ago
(it cost way over msrp), and the dealer told me that it was very reliable (he never saw one jam) and accurate. With every ammo I tried (Winchester, UMC, Remington (makes UMC), Olympic, Bosnian Ammo (commercial stuff), Norinco, Geco, factory reloads (WC) I got the same result. I can rarely get through a plate run without ity jamming and nearly never an entire magazine. I have two mags, both work like crap. Accuracy is pretty good, but it doesn't shoot so who cares. The stock screws constantly need to be tightened as does the bolt handle (almost fell off during a shoot once). I do like the fit of the gun, and it 'swings' fast. For one shot, it would be a great gun, but beyond that (esp. when starting from a full mag) I don't trust it. :banghead:

Return it to hipoint, and they will fix it, and you'll most likely get a mag with it for your troubles. They DO stand behind their product.

 

[phoglund]

I've read many of these HiPoint discussions. The majority of them have nothing but good things to say from actual owners/users of these firearms. The fact that HiPoint backs up their product with such a no-nonsense warranty discounts those who say they had one and it was nothing but a POS. I'd like to know if they returned theirs for repair/replacement and how the replacement worked.

These discussions have convinced me to someday purchase one of these carbines. It's not on the top of my purchase list but I'll get around to it. I like a bargain and fully expect this to provide high value for low cost. Maybe when the rumoured .45 caliber carbine is finally on the market.

I like good looking high quality firearms as much as the next person...but I love a bargain!

 

[355sigfan]

Not every department works under the same guidelines. At the time the local's got into these, they were forbidden to use a carbine in a rifle caliber. They had to be pistol caliber to be used in our city (the department AR's for general issue were in 9mm). For that matter, the local's here are not allowed to use 45ACP, even in an off duty gun. Just because it's what you use where you live/work, not everyone is under the same guidelines.
END QUOTE

If they did not allow rifles I would work on the chief until they did. My first department did not allow rifles and though a lot of work bending the right ears I got rifles approved. It took research and well prepared presentations. But it can be done. Another issue is if rifles are not allowed give me an 870 over any pistol caliber pop gun. With slugs I have a nice large bore rifle.
Pat

 

[Crosshair]

As a home defence carbine I would trust my life to it. Several things to remember.

Hi-Points hate hard primers. The striker sets off all US commercial ammo I have tried. But Wolf ammo, or ammo that uses CCI primers has about a 10% FTF rate.

Use only factory mags. Avoid the aftermarket 15 rounders like the plague.

If 10 rounds isn't enough, either reload or be sure to beat the perp so the rear sight is hitting him. Those "ears" on the rear sight should be able to cut flesh good enough, plus you have the whole mass of the receiver bearing onto their head. That heatshield over the barrel makes a really good gripping surface for use as a bat.

 

[30-40Krag dude]

I picked up my carbine about a year ago. took it out every weekend and shot 2 100 round boxes of WWB. It has well over 5000 round through it now without a single failure, and thats no BS. The only issue it has is the charging handle works loose after a few hundred rounds. If i was a LEO, i would have no complaints if someone handed me a 995.

 

[hkmp5g17]

Just wanted to apologize- i saw the article again and it's in Gun World not Guns as I had stated. Sorry!!

Still haven't found a link.:banghead:

Anthony

 

[Manedwolf]

"Why use a high point when you have acces to MP-5's, UMP's, P90's...."

It seems to me that while a carbine the caliber of your sidearm is a good idea for a cop, that they should be using the Kel-Tec Sub 2000's instead.

In the sense that if they have Berettas, they can use the Kel-Tec that takes Beretta mags. If Glocks, etc, etc...

That way, depending on the situation, they could swap mags from their pistol and carbine freely. Plus the Kel-Tec folds up and could be stowed on or in a tactical backpack.

But that'd be too logical.

 

[armoredman]

I can see prison guards using em. Some use the Mini-14. (I remember seeing on a history channel documentary about prisons. I was saddened, as it was in somewhat poor shape all scratched and dinged )

Actually, we use AR15s and Glock 17s, got rid of all the Ruger Security Sixes and Mini 14s about 5 years ago...sold well in the private sector, I am told.
If I handed a HiPoint to a Tower Officer, he'd probably laugh, hand it back, and walk off the tower.
Having said that, I may try one of these little things, just for kicks.

 

[355sigfan]

It seems to me that while a carbine the caliber of your sidearm is a good idea for a cop,
END QUOTE

Its a crappy idea. Using an oversized handgun when you need a carbine or a shotgun will get you killed.
Pat

 

[grimjaw]

I like my PC9, but if I was working a security or law enforcement gig, I'd want something more. It wouldn't have anything to do with the reliability of the gun, either. I'd be remembing the phrase 'bring enough gun.' I know 9x19 will do the job, but 5.56/7.62 NATO or 7.62x39 will do it much better.

Maybe I'd consider one if it was a reliable semi-auto carbine chambered for .44 Magnum, and had a high capacity (20+) magazine, or PP-19 in 7.62x25 Tokarev. If I'm dreaming, why not make it big? Better to have a rifle cartridge for a rifle for serious work, though.

jmm

 

[Destructo6]

I can tell you that the Border Patrol (DHS -> CBP -> Border Patrol) uses Colt-made M4s, either auto or semi-only. All the racks in the vehicles are for the M4 and shotgun (14" 870).

 

[mapwd]

I just bought a used one for $125.00 and took it to my indoor range, it ran great and accurate as hell. As for the warranty though, I just visited their websight and it states that it will not, under any circumstance, warranty to anyone but the original owner. I was bummed to read this. Anyone know if that has indeed changed??

 

[R.W.Dale]

All Hi-Point Firearms carry a Lifetime, No-Questions Asked Warranty.
If any Hi-Point Firearm is ever need of service, please call 877-425-4867
Whether you are the original purchaser, or a third-hand owner, your Hi-Point firearm will be repaired free of charge.

http://www.mkssupply.com/

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH

 

[kennyboy]

Quote by ReadyontheRight: "To save the taxpayers money?"

I don't know if you'd rather them use the Hi Point or not. I don't know your stance, but I trust my life with the MP-5 or UMP much more than Hi Point. The MP-5 is the best submachine gun ever made... and that is a fact. They can spend my money if it means better equipment that will ultimately protect me.

 

[355sigfan]

Money should never be placed before an officers life. A high point is not an acceptable gun for LEO work.
Pat

 

[Domino]

Money should never be placed before an officers life. A high point is not an acceptable gun for LEO work.

So what IS an officers life worth in dollars? There has to be some point to where PD's are spending too much money on guns or vests, money isn't limitless. For some departments, a Hi-point 995 may be a good alternative (for some officers) rather than a 12 gauge or AR type weapon.

Having shot a Hi-point quite a bit, I would say that it seems like a very useful and functional weapon within its limitations. If I were an LEO, I would rather have one 995 in .40 cal and a G22 rather than just the G22. In short, its better much better than nothing.

 

[355sigfan]

So what IS an officers life worth in dollars? There has to be some point to where PD's are spending too much money on guns or vests, money isn't limitless. For some departments, a Hi-point 995 may be a good alternative (for some officers) rather than a 12 gauge or AR type weapon.
END QUOTE

How much is your life worth. Glad to see you view my life as expendable. Departments are not spending too much on guns and vests. A high point is not a good alternative. If the department is dirt poor grants are available for desent weapons. A 12 gauge is not that expensive and is better than the pos highpoint in every way. AR's of course are preferred. As one who actually works the streets I would not want to be saddled with a Highpoint pos.
Pat

 

[Crosshair]

There are some departments that do not have a very large operating budget. Choices have to be made. Do they:

1. Buy the super cool AR-15 for $800 that will rarely be used.
2. Buy the 995 Carbine that will rarely be used and get some good body armor to the guys on the beat who are still using body armor from the early 1990s.
3. Buy the 995 and use the money saved on increased training.
4. Buy the 995 and upgrade the radios.

We are presented with tradeoffs every day. Resourses are limited and sometimes you have to go for something cheaper that will still get the job done 99% of the time. The military can't scrap all their B-52s and build a bunch of B-1 bombers. Is the B-1 better than the B-52? Heck yea, but the B-52 can do 99% of the things that the B-1 does and can do it for alot cheaper.