How are the NEF Pardner Pumps???

[ArmedBear]

Oh yeah. Wake up, stop trade, and destroy our economy.

In case nobody noticed, we're doing a LOT better economically, and we're all richer, since the 1950s when everything was made in the USA.

Don't mistake grumbling for good policy.

I just don't see the point in buying a copy when the real thing is cheap.

But most higher-end shotguns have been made elsewhere for a long time. Belgium, Italy and Japan make most of the affordable nice stuff. Germany, too, as you climb in price. Everyone's hero John Moses Browning was the absolute king of "outsourcing" before there was such a word! The US makes great "working shotguns", but apart from Rugers, only a few nice break-actions are made here, and they're high-end low-volume pieces are made here, and one may never have even heard of them unless one is a serious trapshooter.

The problem is, a lot of issues hide for a while, like the Turkish Khan-made Mossberg O/U's that seemed like a steal until they all started breaking after 2000 rounds or so. I just don't figure you're saving enough on the Chinese 870 copy, when the real thing, a known quantity, isn't expensive. I don't like paying to be a guinea pig.

 

[MAX100]

No one said stop trade. Take a look at the unfair trade policies with China. The American Manufactures can not compete with China's low cost labor. We have a 250 billion trade deficient with China. They buy very little from the USA. USA is becoming a nation of importers. We make very little now. Some of the Big manufactures in the US are importing as much 60% of it's goods it sales in the US from China.

The Rem 870 copies I have sold in the past had a nice set of ghost ring sights and heat shield. They sold for around $199 and they were very well made for the money. Even twice the money or more. A Rem 870 new with the same features would cost you $450.

Think about this. Dealer cost on the 870 copy with ghost ring sights and heat shield from China was about $160 that means the wholesale supplier was paying about $120 for it and the importer that sold it to the Wholesaler was paying around $90 to $100 or less per shotgun from China. How can any firearms manufactures in the USA compete with that price. You can't buy a good set of ghost ring sights for under a $100. That is why you are seeing more gun manufactures getting into the import business.

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[ArmedBear]

Someone will always be able to copy a product that's relatively simple and 57 years old with no major changes, and make it cheaper.

Maybe China, maybe Brazil, maybe Uganda for that matter.

Perhaps the 870 or the slightly newer Mossberg 500 is about as far as the mass-production pump shotgun design can go, without raising the price or lowering reliability. If so, someone will be able to build it cheaper. Lots of someones.

Japan used to be the source of cheap knockoffs. Then Korea. Now China. Each has knocked the other one off its pedestal, but as a result, the onetime cheap supplier of reproduced low-tech stuff has built wealth and become a true trade partner, instead of a sweatshop supplier. And so it goes.

That doesn't mean I'll rush out to buy a Chinese gun any more than a Turkish one. But I'm not deathly afraid of being able to buy goods for a better price in the future instead of a protected, inflated price. What I hope for is not more primite junk, but rather American companies that improve their production methods in order to compete.

 

[deafsg1]

Okay, as promised, I went to another academy, and it turns out that the display model at the other store was a fluke. I check the display model AND others in the box, and they didn't have the misaligned screws on top of the receiver. They were tapped in correctly. So, that's brought back my trust in the gun. I talked with a gun-owner coworker about the messed up gun I saw, and he said it had to be a fluke because he trusts it and knows it's been around for a long time. While I was there, I took the barrels off the Mossberg and the HR, and ran my finger inside the chamber end of the barrel, and the HR's chamber is a bit rough compared to the Mossberg chamber. Plus, I got to put the guns back together and turn the barrel screw - it's a lot smoother on the Mossberg. I see now that the Mossberg is more precisely machined, AND the Mossberg barrel is heavier and thicker! That is my next buy after I get the Ruger handgun out of layaway (KP95DPR15).

Thanks!

 

[Red Label]

Wake up we will and wake up we are...right now. To a country that makes nothing and is absolutely useless. Admiral Yamamoto said after the attack on Pearl Harbor, "I am afraid we have awakened a sleeping giant", because the USA had the will and the power to produce anything we desired. Well, no more, we have sold our souls and our power to the chinese:banghead: WAKE UP? Yes, wake up and support your own country and your own people and their jobs! That job going to china will soon be your own!

 

[ArmedBear]

Well, no more, we have sold our souls and our power to the chinese

When I've heard that over and over for my whole life (fill in the blank for which country), and I'm 41, I stop believing it.

All the little pissed-off animated icons in the world won't convince me. Show me why it's different this time.

Bottom line: innovation is how we stay viable. Stuff that doesn't change over time can be copied by anyone with half a brain, and protectionism impoverishes countries who embrace it. Trying to build the same old thing and make laws to prevent competition doesn't work.

I DO buy American quite a bit, but I'm not running around scared.

 

[greg531mi]

What gets into my crawl, is a New England Firearm made in China, a Remington made in Russia, a Winchester Knife made in China.......
I hate it when American names are used for foreign products.....
A Chevy truck? Made in Mexico.....
I feel those manufacturers are ruining their brand name by going overseas or South of the border....

 

[ArmedBear]

Yeah, and those Ithacas that were made by some Italian upstart named Perazzi, those were real crap. Got one you want to get rid of?

 

[MAX100]

American workers do not won't to prevent competition they welcome it. They just want a even playing field with fair trade polices. The US will never be able to compete with China's low wages. A lot of our meat is being processed in China now because it is cheaper to send it to China for processing. Steel is being brought in from China because they can produce it cheaper. China is now in the position to buy parts of the US because of the record trade deficits. The current President is more than happy to sale off parts of the US. It is hard to negotiate with countries you owe money to: Mexico, China, Russia ...ect and that are indirectly funding the unpopular Iraq war. Greed the path to destruction. The upper 1% the richest in the US start the wars for their on gains and the middle class and poor fight in them and die.


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[Blue Brick]

Ok I went to Bass Pro Shop and tested the quality of H&R pump shotgun. It had a nice even hard non-reflective finish and all the lines were straight and even. The action felt tight and smooth and it had no rattles. It was very heavy-7.5lbs which I like, but some people might consider it too heavy. I would rather have it over a Mexican made Maverick.

 

[MAX100]

The H&R pump is a good quality shotgun go for it.



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[redactor]

Every firearm you buy from China is one less they will have to use against us, when the time comes.

 

[deafsg1]

That's right. I forgot to mention that. Think of the metals that have accumulated from our purchases of Chinese stuff made with their metal. That is metal that we do not have to mine, just refine to the manufacturers' specs.

Also, don't forget about so-called Peak Oil - we can delay that scenario if we can get enough power plants on the grid converted to waste-to-energy power plants, or more recently, the Recovered Energy System. Some cities are already making some use of it, with landfills that provide an estimated 10-30 years of fuel. They already recycle the glass and metal pieces before it gets run through the furnace.

Lots of materials to make weapons and tactical gear with... And we give them fake dollars for those goods! The perfect scandal!

 

[romeo212000]

Red Label. Does that mean I shouldnt be buying italian guns either? If you tell me that you are insane. If you dont tell me that then you are doubling back by saying that its okay to buy Italian guns but not chinese. I will continue to buy italian guns and that is what I feel is right for me. Winchester went out of business because their prices got way too high just because they were American made, and nobody would pay the inflated prices. Now I have an 870 express and love it, but if you think I would rather have a Remignton Premier over a Franchi Highlander, or a Rizzini, Holland & Holland, or Berretta Silver pigeon, you are dead wrong. I personally would not buy anything made in China but thats because I dont trust it, no because I have an attachment to "American" made products. Trust me, there are plenty of thing that would have made Winchester more competitive price wise with some of the other companies. But I will not get into that because this is not a political forum.

 

[J_L_A]

Simply put.....Which gun would you bet your life on for HD? Do yourself a favor and buy "piece of mind". You won't regret it.

 

[MAX100]

If anyone is interested. I make the mag tube ext for the Rem 870 copy shotguns. They will also fit the NEF Protector 18.5" home defense shotguns. They will give your shotgun a 7+1 capability and line up nicely with the end of the muzzle. Matte black finish. $59 + shipping. Only tube available for this shotgun that lines up with the end of the muzzle.
Pic's available.


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[Red Label]

Romeo, there is a BIG difference between chinese junk and Italian made guns. The European guns are at least playing on a relatively even playing field. The big problem I see with china is the fact that no one in the world can compete with them because they basically pay their emplyees nothing! The quality is not nearly as good from chine and it shows. Come on, look close without seeing $$. The chinese copies don't compare to anything!

Chinese goods are popular only because they are cheap. No one anywhere else in the world would work for the wages that the chinese pay. THAT is my biggest problem with them and the fact that because of this many Americans have lost their incomes!!!:banghead:

 

[MAX100]

Don't put the lost of US income on the Chinese. That blame should be put on the current government and President. You know the one that was going to sale our ports to Arabia. With fair trade policies the lost of US income would not happen for that reason. The problem is, it is hard to negotiate with a country you owe $250 billion to and that is indirectly funding the Iraq war. Our government has sold our souls to the devil.



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[MAKster]

When you can buy a new Remington 870 Express from Dick's for $230 and a Mossberg 500 for $210 it makes no sense to buy a NEF Pardner pump.

 

[MAX100]

Dick's got a deal on those shotguns because the $230 sale price is about $50 under dealer cost. I could not sale them that cheap. They do have greater buying power.

I read in this thread on THR (Bad day with new shotgun, or "I got Remy 870 blues") that the Rem Express has FTE problems. I sale the express but have never fired one. I also sale and own a 870 copy and have never had FTE problems out of it or never read about one having FTE problems. The 870 copy I own came with Ghost ring sights, heat shield regular stock and pistol grip all for around $200 retail, a few years ago. They were a steal.

The Remington 870 copies are very good shotguns I would put them right with any of the lower end to middle grade pump shotguns being made in the US. They are a step above a Maverick.

It is really hard to say buy USA and don't buy import, now days, when most of the US firearms manufactures are now in the import business themselves.



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[Smitty in CT]

... I would rather have it over a Mexican made Maverick...

Sorry, but Mavericks are still made in the USA...Eagle Pass, TX... They build most of the Mossberg guns, too....

http://www.swtexaslive.com/november2006/guns

Smitty

 

[MAKster]

According to the article, Mossberg barrels, bolt assemblies, and triggers are manufactured in Torreon, Mexico and then shipped across the border to Eagle Pass, Texas for assembly. The receivers and stocks which are made in New Haven, Conn are shipped to Eagle Pass as well.

 

[B.D. Turner]

I went to Dick's Sporting Goods a couple of weeks ago with every intention of buying a Mossberg 500 special (3 screw in chokes). I checked one out and found that the forearm was so loose it felt like it was broken. I tried everyone they had in the store and they were all the same. I have owned Mossbergs in the past with a little side to side motion in the forearm but none near this bad. Dicks had it priced for $239. I then saw another shotgun on the rack with a nice walnut stock. It was priced $179 and was an H&R. I checked it over and bought it. The stock was way ahead of the Mossberg. Mossberg wood looks cheap to me. The fit and finish was better on the H&R too. I know this gun is made in China and I am old enough to remember when made in China was like stamping "Junk" on a product. My Norinco .45 and all of the SKS's and AK's I have owned were made in China also and none of them were junk. After firing 100 rounds of about everything through the H&R I like it very much.
Some folks on here are upset that the H&R is an 870 knock off. The funny thing is H&R sold out to Marlin who was bought out by Remington. So H&R is now owned by Remington. Apparently Remington did not have a problem with the H&R copy because they are still being sold.

 

[Tomac]

A few years ago I bought a couple of the Norinco Hawk 88 870 clones for my son & his best friend as starter shotguns. They've seen their share of abuse and handled everything from WallyWorld cheap birdshot to magnum slugs & buck w/o difficulty. When I decided to pick up a rugged & reliable beater shotgun for myself I picked up the Pardner Pump Protector and while it hasn't been fired extensively yet to date it has been 100% in every respect.
Tomac
NEF Pardner Pump Protector w/+2 mag tube extension, 4-shot sidesaddle, TLR-1 taclight & fiber optic bead:

 

[Dirty Bob]

I still prefer a genuine 870. A few days ago, I found a Wingmaster (made in 1965 -- a 28" 20 Ga.) for $250 in great shape. I'd much rather have a gently used original in steel and walnut than a new Chinese copy. I'm funny that way. I hold the gun and imagine the birds or rabbits it may have taken before it came to me, or the young shooters for whom it might have been their first adult shotgun. I love continuing the Wingmaster's story. I can't wait for my wife to try it.

BTW, I shot my first round of trap with the Wingmaster yesterday. I sucked, but the gun was great! I need to try it on a patterning board.

Regards,
Dirty Bob