I get tired of people getting so uppity about clip v magazine

[MistWolf]

The cylinder of the revolver isn't a magazine, per se, as the rounds are held in individual chambers

 

[LibShooter]

If I hear someone say "clip" when talking about a magazine I immediately think that they don't know much about firearms.

I don't know what you have to know to know much about firearms.

My brother-in-law knows how to take apart and rebuild his guns. He sure knows how to shoot them. He knows how to make sure they go bang every time he pulls the trigger. He knows enough to fill his freezer with venison and squab. I'm sure he knows way more than I do about what to do if some bad guy enters his home in the middle of the night.

And I've heard him talk about loading his clips with bullets.

 

[sirgilligan]

I don't judge on the usage. When I respond I will say mag if it is a mag. If they notice and pick up on it then fine.

I call all hand guns pistols. A salesman corrected me in a manner I found to be rude when I was looking at a revolver.

My Dad calls all magazines clips. He picked it up in the army of all places. He knows plenty about guns, more than most.

Be nice, it works out better.

 

[Nushif]

What always baffles me is that these same people who insist on correcting everyone on every miniscule error they know about hate being corrected themselves.
If we went around correcting everyone we meet and corrected everyone we ever interacted with, with the same passion as this ridiculously snobbery of clip and mag the world would walk around angry at all times. Because we couldn't get through a single sentence without fifteen corrections and a freakin debate as to the meaning of "to be."
Because frankly anyone who claims to be is simply a verb used to denottate a present tense has never talked to someone who has studied any kind of philosophy. And anyone who has ever said they have a 1911 are wrong as well, because 1911 is a numerical group, usually referenced to a year according to the Gregorian calendar. Which in turn is not the same as the Ming calendar.

So, next time you use the verb "to be" and you don't differentiate between the state of existence in what I believe is the manifestation of an idea in the physical world, you are wrong and at this point "willfully ignorant."
Also, next time you claim to have a 1911 I will remiind you that in reality 1911 is the wrong year of adoption according to the Ming calendar and frankly, you should be specifying the pistol instead of claiming a year.

We can be nitpicky and snobby and refuse to understand what people are saying all day long, but as someone pointed out earlier, communication isn't a one way street with "responsibilities" assigned to each party so we can righteously assume the other person is wrong.
I know we talk firearms here and that is our topic, but at a certain point we need to admit that when we talk, we have to do so as both a technically savvy community and a communicatively competent one. Otherwise we might as well just start using blueprints and dimensions instead of English.

 

[W.E.G.]

double-stack banana clip

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Tactical bananas?

Shouldn't the bananas be reversed and duct taped together?

 

[cyclopsshooter]

those bamamas need to be painted black

 

[Frank Ettin]

...It's a common misconception that the responsibility for success or failure of an attempt at communication between humans lies completely with the speaker (writer). Those of us who have completed advanced studies in the field of communication and meta-communication have learned that communication only succeeds when the speaker and listener (writer and reader) both do their part well...

It depends on what their respective parts are. I may be entitled to expect from my audience their attention, perhaps a reasonably open mind and maybe a disposition to try to understand me. But the job of organizing my thoughts, putting them in an understandable form and format, and using words well calculated to be understood in the way wish, is mine.

...In spite of my excellent explanation, you failed to get my point. Therefore, you are not knowledgeable in the field of human communication,...

Then I guess your explanation was not sufficiently excellent. And if your failure to communicate your thoughts adequately is somehow related to what you now claim is a lack of background on my part, you'll need to remedy that if you want me to appreciate your hidden genius.

...Lighten up!

This is as light as I choose to be at this time.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

All right then Ash. Since it's ok to use "clip" and "magazine interchangeably, we'll quit worrying about other phrases as well.

Folding stocks can be that "folding up thingy in the back". We can ask for "boolits for my niney". It's ok to call a snub nosed .38 a "Saturday Night N!&&%#town Special. The .500 S&W is an "Assault Weapon". We'll call rifles "guns" no matter how many time Gunny has us marching in the bay in out boxers, shouldered rifle in one hand and our gun in the other. Self loading rifles (sorry) guns are "weapons of mass destruction" and the Keltec carbine can still come with a stock that holds an extra clip.

However, I draw the line at being called a European American regardless of where my ancestors came from. Thems is insulting and still fighting words

I think you miss the point, and the fact that you're so quick to throw around racist terms, even in jest, makes me well aware that you're not someone I have interest in discussing... anything with.

 

[jmstevens2]

I have a pistol that was factory roll-marked ".45 Caliber Automatic". Most folks know that the usual civilian "automatic pistol" is semi automatic.

Wasn't made by Colt was it? Other manufacturers didn't like putting Colt on their pistols. Most dropped the Colt part of ".45 Automatic Colt Pistol".
Can you blame them?

 

[exavid]

I get annoyed when I tell people I have a Jeep and they say "what make?"
Why. I once owned a Kaiser jeep, Korean War vintage. Jeeps were made by Willys, Kaiser, Ford, American Motors and Chrysler. Jeep is an accepted term for a specific body style as well as a brand name.
It isn't worth the effort to correct people on terminology if they aren't firearm fans. Clip vs. magazine, revolver vs. pistol, bullet vs. cartridge, et al. I sounds somewhat sloppy or imprecise when commited by a firearm user but not particularly odd from non-shooters. BTW - a shotGUN isn't artillery. And gun is pretty much interchangeable for firearm nowadays.

 

[gun addict]

hmm, after seeing a recruit get jumped by Drill Instructors for calling his magazine a clip and spents 20 minutes pushing the rifle front and back while chanting "Magazine, magazine" i think i'll call it its proper name.

no but seriously, how hard is it to just use the damn proper term?

 

[9mmforMe]

uh...it was General Grievous, not Darth Grievous.

This type of conversation is exactly how language changes in any given culture, through passionate discourse, so smile fellas, you too can say you were there when magazines and clips fought for supremecy. How about an amalgam? Magclip? Clipmag? I know, we will all fight which word gets to start the new term.

 

[MistWolf]

I think you miss the point, and the fact that you're so quick to throw around racist terms, even in jest, makes me well aware that you're not someone I have interest in discussing... anything with.

I did not toss that out there in jest. It's a serious observation. Is that racist term a correct one? No. Neither is calling a magazine a clip.

I hate that people will use that racist phrase because I know exactly where it comes from. Not only is it hateful and derogatory on more than one level, it deliberately creates confusion. But the cavalier attitude towards the usage of proper terminology and labeling it snobbery lets phrases like this creep in.

If we are discussing firearms and you ask about the clip of my 10/22, I will explain it's a magazine regardless of what the marketing types (who also tell me that drinking beer makes me more attractive to women) or some government bureaucrat calls it.

Same with a co-worker. If he tells me we have to go work on an airplane, tail #N555NA, I'm looking for an airplane, not a helicopter. If a pilot calls ahead for gas, he shouldn't be surprised when the fuel truck shows up with Avgas instead of JP (jet fuel).

I don't pretend to know all the correct terms for everything out there, but learning to use them properly goes a long way towards clear communications and will save time and lives when seconds count.

The stubbornness runs two ways in this issue- those who insist on correcting those who do not use the proper use of terms and those who refuse to use them.

Keep in mind this- The use of improper terms sounds unprofessional. Who do you think will do better in a job interview or in advancing their career- One who clearly communicates using the correct terminology, or one who is mis-understood from using a word incorrectly because "it's common usage"?

 

[stchman]

It's just the use of incorrect terminology. It's like calling a rifle a shotgun, it's incorrect.

Many say that the two terms are interchangeable.

My SKS uses a stripper clip to load its internal magazine, I guess I can say that my SKS uses a stripper magazine to load its internal clip?

 

[tom e gun]

double-stack banana clip

oh that is pure genius sir!

 

[scythefwd]

If I go to buy tires for the Jeep and ask if they have wheels in ___ size they will start looking for metal things in that size not rubber things.

Do you actually want to put money on that. Walk into any tire store and give the correct dimensions of a tire and call it a wheel. I'll bet they bring you back a tire.
Example - ask for a 275 60r 16 wheel. They will bring you back a tire that will fit many different cars, specifically the 2000 impala from memory.

You could probably ask for a 7.5 x 16 5 lug tire and get a rim or wheel fitting that same description.

There is being right, and then there is effective communication. For the firearms where there are actual separate clips and magazines (sks anybody), then using the right term is probably a good idea. Especially if it is in a situation where being handed the wrong part is possible. In the shop while performing repairs, you are in a technical conversation (more on that later) and you very well could mean either one so use the right term. On the range, where you are more likely talking about the clip than a magazine (assuming a non-detachable magazine on the sks). On the range where you have a detachable magazine on your sks, call it either. Unless you are using clips to load the mags... then be specific. On the range, where my cz only has one of the two... call it what ever you want. There is only one possible part you are asking for and your point gets across effectively. That is how communication works.

And to what is correct... Merrium Webster disagrees. You can argue till you are blue in the face, but unless you really want to argue that the dictionary doesn't have the correct definition of a word, you are the one in error. Yes, there is a difference between technical definitions (such as legal) and common use. If you aren't in a technical discussion, it's probably safe to assume that the common use definition in the dictionary is being used.

CLIP:
2: a device to hold cartridges for charging the magazines of some rifles; also : a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm

and there are still clips that are used to load modern magazines.
clips load magazines,magazines load chambers

Thee words for ya. M 1 Garand. The clip is removable and place in the magazine. The rifle is loaded directly from the clip.

Keep in mind this- The use of improper terms sounds unprofessional. Who do you think will do better in a job interview or in advancing their career- One who clearly communicates using the correct terminology, or one who is mis-understood from using a word incorrectly because "it's common usage"?

- To this, I say: There is a time and a place for everything. When attempting to prove superior proficiency, using the correct terms is probably the best avenue. When in a common environment, by which I mean an environment where you are not trying to prove your superior proficiency (unless you have to be the alpha), then common usage is acceptable. For most people, I would assume they have nothing to prove. We don't work in the firearms field and we have no need to prove superior proficiency with words when we speak. If you want to measure my proficiency, check my targets.


OH, and for those that do say Websters Dictionary is incorrect (and has been for years), please state an acceptable source for your definition. Last I checked, that dictionary is used by millions of people and it's definitions are considered to be fact in academia. So if Websters dictionary is wrong, what authoritative source are you using? If you consider yourself the authoritative source, why should the rest of the world use your definition vs. Websters? Please be specific and post something more substantive than "because that's what they are" or "because my drill sergeant/instructor said that's what they are called".

 

[woad_yurt]

I can understand using a word incorrectly out of ignorance. People do that all of the time.

What baffles me is when someone knowingly uses a word incorrectly and then defends their doing so. It's like a guy refusing to remove a poppy seed stuck between his two front teeth after being told that it's there.

 

[jcwit]

Wish folks would get this worked up about things that actually mattered in this world.

Instead of taking something as meaningless as this to attempt to prove how intelligent they are or were.

 

[scythefwd]

Woad - the problem is that people are using the term correctly. They are using a published and accepted dictionary definition of clip when they use it to refer to a magazine.

To say they are using it wrong, you are saying the dictionary definition is wrong. If the dictionary definition is wrong, please post an acceptable source for the definition that states a clip and a magazine are distinctly separate and are in no way synonymous.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

That's a standard question in many parts of the south. "Coke" and "soft drink" are used interchangeably (kind of like "magazine" and "clip" by some people). It often causes confusion (again, kind of like using "clip" when you mean "magazine"). If you want a cola soft drink down here, you ask for a "Coca-cola" or a "Pepsi".

I almost made this same statement, but the difference is I can't imagine "clip" and "magazine" causing any actual confusion. Any firearm that takes either to feed uses one and one only, and any firearm that takes either uses a very specific kind. They're rarely interchangeable. So, asking for a magazine without knowledge of your specific weapon and caliber isn't going to make much of a difference. However, asking for a "clip" for a specific weapon and caliber is going to be completely understood.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Pedantic Games of Gotcha!*

As I pointed out before, Marlin uses the terminology "clip magazine" for the detachable box magazine for their bolt action rifles.

Just browsing around to see if I could play "Gotcha!" with another manufacturer I found:
http://www.wisnersinc.com/rifles/winchester/rfbolt.htm
has a listing for:

WINCHESTER 52 / 69 / 69A / 75 3969B MAGAZINE ASSEMBLY - 5 shot (22 Long Rifle only) $19.75

with the note:

NOTE -- We often get inquires about our wording of "MAGAZINE ASSEMBLY". Sorry, but this is the factory's wording nomenclature, & YES it DOES mean just that -- (ASSEMBLY) & it does include all the parts & they ARE ASSEMBLED & ready to function in the proper firearm.

Apparently they have had to respond to criticism from folks like some on this thread.

I guess Marlin and Winchester just don't know crap about proper terminology and are in bad need of correction from folks who never recovered from traumatic experiences with their drill instructors.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedantic

It pays to be able to think outside a box of jargon and realize that non technicians will use non technical terms. Usually if there is only one way of feeding cartridges into a particular gun, clip has been used for generations as a synonym for magazine. I have not heard magazine used as a synonym for a stripper clip or en bloc clip, since most users know they use them to load a fixed magazine.

Hotchkiss M1909 machine gun used what was described as "30 round strip magazine". How's that for monkey wrench in the works?

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

Tell that to the millions of marines and soldiers that went through boot camp being corrected by their Drill Instructors and then telling them to perform a bazillion pushups !!! If you were to hear someone say look at that 'Horseless carriage', you would probably correct letting them know it is correctly called an automobile. God Bless

That's the difference: "horseless carriage" is a 100+ year old term. The clip v magazine interchangeability is a recent English misnomer. English changes over time. It at least makes sense that, if you're going to be incorrect, you be in the proper century and not two behind... mainly just because I suspect no one here grew up with HORSED carriages, therefore calling something "horseless" makes little sense.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

That right there is the quote of the day.


I am curious, are the guys that are so offended by people misusing the terms magazine and clip also offended by people who shortent the term "magazine" to just "mag"??

Mag isn't even a word.

And in gun terminology, mag can easily also mean "magnum."

I asked similar questions (45.LC, bullets, etc), but it seems to have been overlooked.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

You're tired of the uppityness of this debate...SO you post a thread to encourage more uppidyness. I don't get it.

If you read my original post, I was looking for a recently thread with a really great quote about the topic, not looking for another debate.

If you read more, maybe you'd "get it" more. Not to be rude, just saying, it's best to read threads rather than skim.