I lied

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With a screename like Yoda...all you had to do was wave your hand in front of her face slowly and say "These are not the guns you are looking for." Duh.

:neener:

Edit:: Kodiak beat me to it...too slow to respond on that one.
 
This is not a perfect world... There are alot of less than intelligble people out there who can make your life difficult. Sometimes, you have to bend a little without actualy breaking the law. You didn't break the law. Good job!
 
BP Hunter said:
This is not a perfect world... There are alot of less than intelligble people out there who can make your life difficult. Sometimes, you have to bend a little without actualy breaking the law. You didn't break the law. Good job!
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I don't see any bending or breaking of law or policy here... The OP notified the carrier that he was shipping a firearm, the firearm wasn't loaded, and he was shipping legally... It's not his fault the idiot clerk doesn't have anything better to do than hassle gun owners/shippers. Lying isn't illegal in most cases, and definitely not in this particular case.
 
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question, especially for the FedEx guy. I know that FedEx rules state a handgun has to be shipped overnight. Fine. I do that. But does FedEx have to know what is in the box? Much of the time, I don't even get asked what is in the box. I just shipped back some boots I ordered, and no one asked me. So do I have to say "It's a gun"? If they ask, can I say the box contains tools or sporting goods? As long as I am shipping per FedEx rules, why does it matter what is in the box?
 
TX1911fan said:
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question, especially for the FedEx guy. I know that FedEx rules state a handgun has to be shipped overnight. Fine. I do that. But does FedEx have to know what is in the box? Much of the time, I don't even get asked what is in the box. I just shipped back some boots I ordered, and no one asked me. So do I have to say "It's a gun"? If they ask, can I say the box contains tools or sporting goods? As long as I am shipping per FedEx rules, why does it matter what is in the box?
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http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00922.html

It's in here, the short answer is yes you have to tell them. (as far as I've been able to puzzle out of this VERY confusing set of laws)
 
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TX1911fan said:
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a question, especially for the FedEx guy. I know that FedEx rules state a handgun has to be shipped overnight. Fine. I do that. But does FedEx have to know what is in the box? Much of the time, I don't even get asked what is in the box. I just shipped back some boots I ordered, and no one asked me. So do I have to say "It's a gun"? If they ask, can I say the box contains tools or sporting goods? As long as I am shipping per FedEx rules, why does it matter what is in the box?
Rail Driver said:
http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00922.html

It's in here, the short answer is yes you have to tell them. (as far as I've been able to puzzle out of this VERY confusing set of laws)
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Click to expand...

18 USC 922 only requires you to notify a contract carrier of a shipment of firearms if the shipment is going out of state AND the shipment is going to someone without an FFL and in that case the notification must be in writing.

If the shipment is not leaving the state, or the shipment is going to an FFL in any state, there is no statutory legal requirement to notify the shipper. If the shipment is staying in state, or is going to an FFL in any state, and you do not notify the shipper there is a firearm, all you have violated is company policy and the company may either refuse your shipment or deny you an insurance claim.
 
NavyLCDR said:
18 USC 922 only requires you to notify a contract carrier of a shipment of firearms if the shipment is going out of state AND the shipment is going to someone without an FFL and in that case the notification must be in writing.

If the shipment is not leaving the state, or the shipment is going to an FFL in any state, there is no statutory legal requirement to notify the shipper. If the shipment is staying in state, or is going to an FFL in any state, and you do not notify the shipper there is a firearm, all you have violated is company policy and the company may either refuse your shipment or deny you an insurance claim.
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Thanks for clearing that up for me. It brings up another question, however.

I thought it was illegal to ship a firearm directly to a non-licensee out of state?
 
Shipping ammo via FEDEX

It's right in their published tarrif, page 7:
http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/SG_GroundTariff_2011.pdf

G. FedEx Ground will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

Then:

Packages containing hazardous materials, including materials classified as “Other Regulated Materials – Domestic” (ORM-D), cannot be shipped via FedEx international services or to Hawaii or Alaska (consumer-commodity ORM-D can be shipped to Canada if properly labeled). Hazardous material shippers must be properly qualified through a FedEx sales representative before tendering hazardous material packages via FedEx Ground.

And:

N. Charge for Handling Hazardous Materials. In addition to the other rates and charges
named in this tariff, a charge will be assessed on each package of hazardous materials.

UPS does not have the requirement to ship ammo as anything more the ORM-D with no "qualification" required of the shipper and no extra fees. That's the difference between UPS and FEDEX. Go ahead and use FEDEX if you still want to.
 
Rail Driver said:
Thanks for clearing that up for me. It brings up another question, however.

I thought it was illegal to ship a firearm directly to a non-licensee out of state?
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In almost all cases, it is illegal. That's why the written notification statute exists, so that the carrier does not engange in an illegal shipment unknowingly. It puts the criminal charges squarely on the person making the shipment and alleviates potential charges against the shipping company.
 
Well, it's unloaded it is disassembled. In a manner of speaking. I mean, it won't work. It's missing critical operational parts, after all.
 
Hazardous material shippers must be properly qualified through a FedEx sales representative before tendering hazardous material packages via FedEx Ground.

Actually I believe this means they have to confirm who you are, not a requirement for hazmat training certification.

The first time I needed to ship ammunition several years ago, I simply called the Fedex Dangerous Goods Dept and told them I already had a Fedex Express account and needed to ship ammunition by ground. All they did was send me some preprinted ground labels and set me up for a pickup the following day. Nothing more.
 
Can't speak for FedEx Ground. Seperate corporate entity owned by the same old guy, but different in almost every aspect from what I've learned by talking to the Ground guy in my area. I've never picked up guns from anybody except a gun shop and I've only delivered rifles to an NRA guy at his house. Have taken pistols and rifles to the gunshop also. I have had one guy ask me if he could give me his pistol to ship and I flat out told him to take it to my buddy at the gunshop who ships enough to get a discount with us and knows how to pack it safely. It turned out to be cheaper for the guy to use the gunshop's discount shipping and we were all happier.
Now as for the comment about lying to morons because that's what they are there for, don't forget that if this moron gets wise to what you are shipping, if it's illegal, not only do you never ship with FedEx again, you get a nice visit from some very friendly men with shiny badges. And just because this moron drives a truck for 10 hours a day, don't think he's stupid. I've busted three drug rings totalling over a million dollars in value each (two crack houses and a meth lab) and two cell phone scams. Here's the REALLY fun fact,....I also know who is sleeping with who (whom?) in every little town I visit. I also know who's spouse doesn't know and who they are sleeping with. People tend to let things slip when they think it's just the FedEx guy picking up their package. You'd also be amazed how many women sunbathe naked in the back yard!


Ps - applications are available on line. Have a clean driving record and no arrests
 
It's not illegal to ship a firearm to a non-licensee if no change of ownership (i.e. a "transfer") is taking place. You can ship your gun off to a non-licensee for service or repairs, for example, and they can ship it back to you. No transfer has taken place.
 
Captaingyro said:
It's not illegal to ship a firearm to a non-licensee if no change of ownership (i.e. a "transfer") is taking place. You can ship your gun off to a non-licensee for service or repairs, for example, and they can ship it back to you. No transfer has taken place.
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It is illegal if the non-licensee does not reside in the same state as the owner of the gun. See 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5).

§ 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides
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ttolhurst said:
Eh... what sort of nonlicensee can perform service or repairs on a firearm without the benefit of an FFL?
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Just about any. So long as they are not manufacturing firearms or performing service or repairs as a course of business with the principal purpose being for livelihood and profit.

It is perfectly legal for my next door neighbor to give me his 10/22 for me to put a two-stage KIDD trigger on it like mine has. No FFL required, unless I do it with the primary purpose of making livelihood and profit from doing so.
 
Just about any. So long as they are not manufacturing firearms or performing service or repairs as a course of business with the principal purpose being for livelihood and profit.
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But as a practical matter, aside from shipping a firearm to your Uncle Earl in East Overshoe who happens to be a retired gunsmith, it would seem that most anyone who accepts shipments of firearms for service or repair is engaging in the business, and in need of an FFL. Yes, I'm sure there may be a few exceptions; there always are.
 
ttolhurst said:
it would seem that most anyone who accepts shipments of firearms for service or repair is engaging in the business, and in need of an FFL.
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I would agree that repeatedly accepting shipments of firearms for service or repair would be a very good indication the person was enganging in a business. And if that non-licensed person received just ONE firearm shipped to them from out of state for service or repair, they would certainly be violating Federal law.
 
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