I Need A Battle Rifle

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Keep in mind when looking at the prices on the DSA site that when you order direct from them (ie, have your FFL call them, tell them its okay for you to order a rifle to be sent to them, you pay DSA for the rifle and the FFL for the transfer) that they give you dealer pricing. The price on my SA58 was about $300 under the MSRP on their site. It probably varies from rifle to rifle, but I think the least expensive STG58 ends up being about 800 when ordered direct.
 
Battle Rifle?

The CMP sells battle rifles at fair prices. If I had a buget of 1k, I would look at an H&R correct grade. Yeah, theres some hoops to jump through but once you have gotten the requirements, they will send you a rifle to your front door. Takes them some time to do it which can be a hard wait.

If you have never shot a M-1 Gararnd you don't know what you are missing. First time you do shoot a Garand, you will know without doubt why we won the war.

As a former FIL, I know we can be a real influence sometimes on some things. I got blamed for the first of many rifles and pistols my ex son in law bought. Finally I said I would not be responsible for any more guns he purchased. He never did go after a M-1 even after I said he should. But he sure liked to shoot mine.
 
Quote:
Here is a picture of my pair of Polys just in case he isn't familiar.
I got my gunsmithing help from Ron Smith at Smith Enterprise, Inc.

VonFireball

I am interested to know more about these. The price seems within reach.

What kind of gunsmithing work was required to get them how you wanted?
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Private message sent :)
 
I know another guy has a battle rifle thread going, but I felt my needs were a bit different than his. I ain't making a collection to collect, but to use heavily.
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That was my thread, they're all shooters too, I'm just buying more of them than you. :)

My advice, buy the gun that YOU are really excited about.
 
If it's strictly FAL vs. G3 I'd get the FAL. Having owned clones of both I preferred the FAL. The gas regulator and superior ergos are big pluses to me. The G3 and clones also operate off roller delayed blowback, and the fluted chamber it requires pretty much ruins the brass for reloading. Those fluted chambers are also notorious for sticky extraction when dirty and known to rip case heads off requiring a broken shell extractor.
 
HK91/G3 is a reliable rifle thats built like a tank and can eat anything in .308.
Its a good choice and CETMEs can be had pretty cheap these days.
Also, magazines are dirt cheap at about $2.50 ea.
 
if he is willing to do the smithing get a kit, but if i were you i would spend the whole grand.trying to get a parts gun to function reliably can be frustrating.m1a,g3 or fal are all good choices.if you were willing to go ak,you could do it for half that much and still get a quality firearm in .308.
 
Fal Or G3 A Good Bet

LISTEN TO YOUR FATHER IN-LAW !

GET A GOOD USED FAL OR G3, OR ORDER A NEW BUILD FROM http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.html !!!!!!

EITHER CHOICE IS A GOOD ONE. THEY EAT ANY OLD AMMO YOU FEED THEM,AND ARE'NT ALL THAT BAD TO CLEAN AND MAINTAIN. THEY'RE BOTH FUN TO SHOOT AND VERY RELIABLE. YOU CAN SAVE MONEY ON AMMO BY FEEDING THEM THE DREADED,,,(YEAH I'M GONNA SAY IT ) WOLF AMMO...I KNOW I KNOW THAT'S GONNA START A WHOLE NEW RANT/THREAD, BUT THE FN OR HK WILL EAT THEM RIGHT UP!!!!!!!! JUST HAVE TO CLEAN UP MORE OFTEN,BIG DEAL !

LISTEN TO TOUR FATHER IN-LAW, SOUNDS LIKE A SMART GUY.


GOOD LUCK, BOX
 
If I had the cash I would go with either an AR or a CMP Garand. Oh, who am I kidding, if I had the whole cash, I'd go the Garand!

Good luck and happy shooting whatever you end up with!
 
I don't think 40 years of gunsmithing is "not knowing" his guns.
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It sure is if he thinks ARs are no good. In my opinion.

It's a knowledge about availability issue.
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I'm not sure what you mean, but the AR and parts for it, are THE most available gun/parts out there today, bar NONE. So if he KNOWS about availability, then the AR would be the first thing recommended, whether AR15 type or AR10 type. It's the penultimate in availability and modularity right now. Again, maybe not true in the past. Things are very different today from what they were just 15 or 20 years ago. Very, VERY different. As I say, good reason to self-educate, not listen to the old inaccurate conventional wisdom. I should say, his advice was perhaps accurate 20 years ago, but not NOW. The design has undergone literally hundreds of small innovations and improvements since the jammomatics of the 1960s military M16A1 rifles. You're really limiting yourself by relying on one person's opinion like that. In fact, why even come here and ask if he knows everything - just have him tell you what to do.

I said he is no longer an FFL these days
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Right, which explains exactly why he's not "up to speed" on modern variants of proven designs. It makes perfect sense. Talk to someone who knows guns - someone who's been an FFL continuously for the last 5-10 years, through the present. I'm sorry, but the fact remains that you are getting BAD, INCORRECT advice. You can stick with it if you like, but it will be to your own detriment. I'm sorry - I'm sure he was quite knowledgeable at one time, but information is not a static commodity; it changed dramatically over time.

He says if you think AR's are good, then you don't know guns "in his opinion".
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That's his opinion; that's great. But he'd be wrong, as 90% of the people on here would agree with me about, and disagree with him.

As far as need goes, no of course you don't have to explain it; but the reason I ask is because you said adamantly that you "NEED" one - not that you want one. It's quite possible that you have some particular function or competition in mind that would help us make a recommendation to you if we just knew what your needs are. Which is why I brought it up - if you're like most of us, it's just "cause I want it". But since you specifically chose the word need, I thought you have a more precise focus in mind. I'm just trying to help here. Maybe I didn't sound like it before, but I am.
 
It sure is if he thinks ARs are no good. In my opinion.
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Are you a gunsmith as well?

Things are very different today from what they were just 15 or 20 years ago.
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He's been a non FFL about 5 years now.

In fact, why even come here and ask if he knows everything - just have him tell you what to do.
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Wanted some recommendations. A lot of the parts/projects guns are unavailable from the sources he was going through. He isn't really up to speed on who has what as far as project fal's, g3's, etc.

That's his opinion; that's great. But he'd be wrong, as 90% of the people on here would agree with me about, and disagree with him.
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99% of the people posting here are not lifetime gunsmiths either.

if you're like most of us, it's just "cause I want it".
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I NEED it because there is the chance that Uncle Sam won't let me have one in the future. Hillary/Obama aren't exactly gun friendly.

I'm just trying to help here.
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Seems like you are trying to discredit my gunsmith who does my work F.O.C. :)

But, I'll be agreeable. Gimme your suggestions on a .308 battle rifle. I'm sure you'll say "AR". Gimme some brands and model numbers then. I'm open to suggestions, just not talking down a decent gunsmith.

He has recommended against the AR though he agrees that some are better than others. He just says there are better choices.

So go ahead and throw down. I want to hear what you have to say on the subject.

Hope this buries the hatchet some.
 
VonF - the whole political gun-grabber scenario is always going to be a what-if scenario, going forward.

Future availability, or lack thereof, tells a lot about why you're pursuing one weapon type over another. But in the end, it's gonna be a crap shoot. We all remember the "assault weapon" debacle. For all we know, some well-intentioned but severely misguided "conservative" will just pull over something in the dark, like an England- or Australia-type ban. Not to hijack your thread, but for Pete's sake, I won't be surprised at anything that passes for legislation these days. But I digress...

It must be nice to have an experienced 'smithy in your pocket. I would be reluctant to blow him off, too.

Thanks for not turning this thread into a pi$$ing contest while others were trying to discern / clarify your earlier posts.

Let us know which way you decide to go.
 
M1A.jpg

Right now I am pretty fond of my M1A. Actually, that would be a lie. I am crazy over her. Head over heels in love. I recommend you at least pick one up and see how it fits you. I was trained on the M16A4 and am a life long shooter with some experience behind a decent selection of rifles--sadly neither the FAL or G3 would be on this list--but various AKs, ARs, SKSs, and custom bolt rifles would be, and none of them make it as easy to hit consistently as my M1A.

That said, they do tend to be expensive. I bought mine new for around $1300. And I understand the appeal of the FAL. That is next on my wish list and I am saving up for a DS Arms Para. They are expensive, but I am doing it right and having some custom touches put on it. Once I get it, I will try put some sights and lights on various guns in my collection, but for the most part, I'll have to cool it. I also understand money being tight. My philosophy has always been to save longer and get the best. If you want or need to impose a budget of $1000 or less, I would look into an DS Arms STG58 or maybe a decent Imbel build first, then maybe one of the Enterprise offerings. Just from holding them at various pawn shops and gun shows, I know I prefer the ergonomics, balance, and control placement of the FAL over the G3 clones. But if all else fails, I wouldn't feel undergunned with a decent HK roller lock clone like the PTR-91 or a good CETME. And some of them tend to be cheaper.

I don't think the AR is junk like some make it out to be, but it doesn't float my boat. Even with ammo prices being what they are, I understand the appeal of the 7.62mm battle rifles. Look into the M14 and see how it grabs you. If it doesn't turn your crank on the same level as the FAL, get the FAL. But my first choices for battle rifles would be between the M14 and the FAL, followed by the G3 clone.
 
He has recommended against the AR though he agrees that some are better than others. He just says there are better choices.
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I can think of no reasonable explanation for this.

However the AR has lots in it's favor. It is America's most popular gun. It has probably the biggest aftermarket support system you've ever seen. It is used by as least one country's military. Also, don't forget the proven track record for reliability, ease of maintenence, accuracy, and dependability.

The AR platform is highly versatile, can fill a variety of roles, comes in a variety of calibers, and is even made in a left handed version. The list goes on and on. I don't know what type of "battles" you're anticipating participating in but you'd be hard pressed to do better when it comes to "battle rifles" than an AR.
 
It is America's most popular gun.
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Unlikely. There have been a lot of them produced, but probably not nearly as much as say, the Remington 870, Marlin 336, Winchester Model 1894, etc.

Course, this is mostly due to the fact that they have only been produced for civilian consumption in the past 40 or 50 years, and only got really popular in the last 20 or so, but still...
 
What is the general opinion of the Atlantic Firearms IMBEL built FALs? What/Who's barrels do they use? For some reason when ever I consider a FAL I can only look at DSA. Are these rifles from Atlantic worth a look?
 
That's a bit of a stretch, but whatever. You can drink whatever Kool Aid you want.
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How do you figure that's a stretch? Lightweight, compact, high round count, lethal cartridge I can carry all day. You can even mount an M203 grenade launcher to it. No Kool Aid here.

Unlikely. There have been a lot of them produced, but probably not nearly as much as say, the Remington 870, Marlin 336, Winchester Model 1894, etc.

Course, this is mostly due to the fact that they have only been produced for civilian consumption in the past 40 or 50 years, and only got really popular in the last 20 or so, but still...
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It's a fact, look at the sales figures for the last 4-5 years. Even the fudds at Gander Mountain and Cabela's are selling them now. :D
 
CDNN has a basic PTR-91 HK clone for $899 in their current flyer.

And could we please stop with the "you don't know what you really want and if you want that you really don't know anything" kind of responses and just answer the OP's questions? Sheesh.
 
Gotta agree. Everyone has an opinion, and some even have experience. (Imagine that.) :rolleyes: Flaming isn't very productive, nor educational.

Interestingly, not one reply I've read in this thread mentions that simple, often overlooked detail of gun control. Yeah, I'm talking about hitting what you aim at. The caliber doesn't matter, the manufacturer is irrelevant, the features are meaningless... it all comes down to shot placement.

Unless your primary concern is noise or intimidating appearance. If that's the case, consider a big, slobbering rottweiler.

Think about purchasing what you can shoot really, really accurately.
 
Get a Saiga .308

$360 for the base gun
$200 for good conversion parts
$450 for 10 FBMG 20 round mags
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$1100 For a .308 with AK reliability, customized the way you want.

To totally discount AKs as a battle rifle is just plain silly.
 
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