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I was detained at school today (Aug 29 2007)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by AJAX22, Sep 5, 2007.

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  1. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    One thing does strike me as odd and I would love to hear more about it. Do you know this Mia? She sure seems to know a lot about you.
     
  2. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    I don't know who Mia is, I've never met her before or talked to her (she must be a girl from class.)

    I'm working on getting representation to pursue this.

    There was no P.C. for a search, and there was no warrent.

    The police report filed was done so based on false information.

    and I was deliberatly led to believe that officers had a warrent that they did not obtain. Thats just wrong.

    I play by the rules, and the rules apply equally to all.
     
  3. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    I'm not saying the rules don't apply to all equally, but it seems to me this will be your word against at least four police officers, one of them the chief.

    Do you have any witnesses? I am just curious, you need to do whatever makes you happy.

    I'm still amazed that this young lady observed you for that length of time and even has your e-mail address and you don't know who she is.

    I'll be very interested to see how this all turns out.
     
  4. disneyd

    disneyd Member

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    Ajax, I would be very interested in how the person who reported you got the information she had. She would have had to be right over your shoulder the whole time or she has A) a keylogger on the computer you were using or B) some other kind of monitoring software installed that she has access to. She could have also dug around in the browser cache afterwards... but its interesting that she knew what you were chatting about, which most likely wouldn't be in the cache. It really sounds to me like she was sitting at another terminal watching something akin to a VNC session on your machine.

    Depends completely on the situation (what you have agreed to in order to use the equipment) and who this Mia person was, but you may have a complaint against "Mia" also.
     
  5. silverlance

    silverlance Member

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    This is a donation worthy cause if it comes to it.

    You can put my name down for that.
     
  6. legaleagle_45

    legaleagle_45 Member

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    They will, of course, assert Terry, yet it appears that Terry is inapplicable on its face, since the Police report indicates the interrogation had ended.

    Thus you have a case... 42 USC 1983 is one route. What are your damages? My guess is minimal... $1,000.00 for 1/2 hour of your time, maybe... Then you have the pragmatic problem of 5 cops as witnesses versus you and the perceptions of the jury.

    Cost to get from here to verdict? Minimum $10,000.00 with no guarantee of success.

    But it is the principle of the thing that matters, and I would litigate your case right down to your last nickel!!!
     
  7. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    Thank you silverlance (and others who've pm'd me) but I would like to try to do this without asking for help from anyone (the offers are appreciated but I don’t think its right that others should pay because of the actions of these individuals)

    I'm trying to find a good attorney who is willing to work on this. I'm new to litigation and I'm not really interested in the money so they could take a huge chunk of any recovery or punitive damages.

    If I did wind up with anything I'd just use it to buy a gun and have it engraved "To Ajax, with love from the SMPD"

    But endgame for this is a long way off.
     
  8. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Why does he need an attorney?"

    He has money to burn?

    He likes beating his head against the wall?

    I don't know, why?

    Life's not fair. I do know that.

    John
     
  9. revjen45

    revjen45 Member

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    "This story illustrates why I cried for joy when I finally crossed the Nevada border on my move out of the PRK."
    Yup. When we left the DPRK I wanted to stop at the border and whiz (that word was allowed on TV on the Simpsons, so I conclude if the FCC didn't object it should be OK) on the place, but was so glad to to be gone I didn't want to look back. It was like leaving a Communist country. Getting to Free America was wonderful.
     
  10. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    Because that's the only way things can change.

    Another option is to file formal complaints against the officers involved.
     
  11. Junkyard Dog

    Junkyard Dog Member

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    This is why I don't visit THR at school. I know for a fact if I did I would be getting a visit in one of my classes from a police officer and prob. getting suspended because of the "no tolerance firearm policy".


    After reading this statement I am afraid of what the USA has become. Don't
    get me wrong I am not trying to rip ihope but it just seems that you can't do
    anything anymore for fear of scrutiny from someone. What the hell has happened to the good ole US of A
    Sorry for the rant I will shut up now.
     
  12. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    I first read this on Calguns.net. AJAX22, I am a supporter if you need/want assistance PM me I'm happy to help.

    It's clear that if we allow our rights to continually be violated without recourse it will continue to happen more regularly.

    I also think a sit-in or other statement should be made either on or directly ajacent to the campus. I'd contact John stossel the reporter and every other news outlet and tell them your story.
     
  13. poor_richard

    poor_richard Member

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    I knew they didn’t have a warrant. The way the officers are reported to have acted just didn’t sound right. Either the story as presented by AJAX22 is inaccurate, or the officers conspired to lie and falsify the report. Personally, I believe it to be the later due to the way AJAX presented the story, and the way the official report is worded (telling him to leave his backpack, and then trying to pass off they’re confiscation of it as a Terry frisk by saying it was “in his immediate control”. Then saying they had to search the backpack for “public safety”.)

    AJAX22,
    Time to start following the young lad Darrow’s lead and invest in some very good personal monitoring devices and equipment. It’s quite possible that the local police could have some ill will against you for the alleged comment of “and the police do a piss poor job”. This could easily be just a case of police vendetta. Not saying it is, but open to the possibility.
     
  14. garymc

    garymc Member

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    I only came upon the thread today, but reading the initial description of the "telephonic" warrant (note the correct spelling of the word warrant), I recognized the problem here. You totally misunderstood when they told you they were getting a TELEPATHIC warrant. These are quite different from normal written warrants and can only be read by psychics. Someone wasted their time with a bogus complaint, they wasted their time and yours and risked making you out to be a crook in front of your class. You've wasted your time pursuing this, I've wasted my time reading all this as have the rest of us here. I hope you can waste some more of their time by hassling them about the warrant scam. If you had money to waste and could hire a lawyer to sit them down in a deposition and question them about the matter and ask them if they have any equity in their homes so you know where to get the money in a suit for whatever damages you could dream up, that would be really funny. I don't see it, even using my psychic powers.
     
  15. wheelgunslinger

    wheelgunslinger Member

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    Bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa :evil: That's one of the funniest things I've ever read on THR.

    "Officer Champagne" sounds more like a stripper I once knew...

    Ajax, it sounds like you're taking the proper course of action. Sacp has given you some very good advice as have the others. I'm very glad that you posted the report and are giving followups. There are a lot of people who will read this thread and be encouraged by your actions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  16. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    "If they did search me without a warrant, its completely unacceptable,"

    Yeah, that would be wrong and, if it was me and they really messed with me I'd be ready to burn them as much as possible.

    But, on the other hand, I suspect they school police soon realized it was bogus and just wanted to put you loose as quickly as possible and to cover their butts at the same time.

    IF they really wanted to hassel you they could/would have taken you to some quite office and let you cool your heels for a few hours while they slowly moved through the "proper channels." I think I'd just eat my objections to this one and thank the LEO types for allowing me to get on with my life that quickly.
     
  17. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    That's an exceptionally BAD idea. For an example of what happens when you just let those things go, look at the example of the Chicago PD. People just kept letting things go until it became a third world nightmare. If the cops on my local force got into trouble at the rate they do, we wouldn't HAVE a police department.

    Bad behavior is NEVER fixed by ignoring it.
     
  18. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    If the facts, as laid, out are true, I would agree that his rights may have been violated, but I'm not an attorney so I couldn't say with absolute certainty.

    STILL the fact remains that this will be his word against some officers and the chief. As I understand it you are a student with a wife and child to support. Do you really have the time and money for this?

    Don't let me stop you, but I hope you are realistic about the outcome.

    If your motivation is truly to correct the actions of the police I think the first step would be to file a complaint with the D.A. or City attorney, depending on who's jurisdiction they are under. I would not waste my time with IA in this department.
     
  19. PacketStorm

    PacketStorm Member

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    This was one of the best threads I have read on THR so far. Ajax - good work in keeping calm in a bad situation. I admire your steadfastness and holding your ground politely.

    It sounds to me like the search was illegal and your rights were violated. Trying to prove this in court is another story. The LEOs involved have committed some pretty offenses by not obtaining a warrant when you denied consent to search your pack. The problem is now trying to prove this. This dept. is going to stick together and will all deny any wrong doing in this case. I think you will really have trouble getting any of the officers involved to testify against the others because the unlawful search was carried out under direction from the chief. This would put a serious stain on the record of any officer who sided with you (violation of the brotherhood).

    I don't mean to say that all LE organizations are corrupt. Many hardworking men and women put their lives on the line to serve others on a daily basis and I commend them for that. But there are those who won't play by the rules and need to make an account for their actions. When you have 6+ officers siding against you, I don't think things will go well if it were to get all the way to trial.

    That said, it doesn't hurt to talk to an atty. I would encourage you to do so and pursue this matter further. Might doesn't make right. Everyone should follow the law.
     
  20. PacketStorm

    PacketStorm Member

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    Reporting to the Proper Authorities

    I just remembered a funny (sort of) incident that happened to me while I was living in South Florida. If you want the actions of the officers known and would like to see something come of this case without going through an atty you could do something like this.

    Crazy Driver
    When driving to the office one afternoon, I was heading down the I95 freeway and traffic was really bad. We had 4 or 5 lanes of traffic going south bound into Miami and it was sluggish - bumper to bumper at 30mph. I was in the second left lane (far left lane was the car pool). I saw a police car in the car pool lane (one lane to my left) that was right on the bumper of another car. That car was moving along at the same speed the rest of traffic was flowing. The officer started flashing his headlights and honking the horn to get this guy out of the way.

    Since they were in the car pool lane, they caught up along side of me pretty quickly and I was watching this tom-foolery kind of chuckling to myself. This car was from a suburb of Miami that was about 5 miles south of the city (we were about 8 miles north of the city). So it was going to take this officer a good 30-45 minutes to get to his city. I then jotted down the car number and license plate number along with the dept. this car was registered too when he started swerving back and forth almost bumping my car.

    The officer then proceeded to slam on the accelerator and passed the slow moving vehicle in front of him using the shoulder of the highway. He pulled back into traffic and proceeded to do the same shinanagins to the other cars in front of him. I was flabbergasted. What in the world was he thinking. Pulling up onto the shoulder and passing cars erratically (while going over blind hills and corners).

    Phone Call Report
    When I got to work, I looked up the PD phone number and called in and reported the problem to the general number (a Sgt. answered I think). I was told the matter would be looked into and I would get a call to confirm the officer had been spoken too. At the same time, I typed up the situation (along with date, time, directions of travel, car number,etc...). I didn't hear from anyone after two weeks, so I called back and was told that there was no reference to this report and that it was too late to do anything about it now.

    Email Report
    That really erked me and I took out my document and wrote an email (now we are getting to the good stuff). I couldn't find the email address of the higher ups in this dept. online, but I did find their email domain name and their names . I used this information to guessed the chief's emails address. I tried about 15 combinations of Last Name, First Name, and Initials using periods, underscores, hyphens, forwards, backwards.... I also added the chief of police for all of Dade County and then copied a few reporters for the Miami Herald.

    Wow - did that get a response. I got a call within 3 hours from three different precincts asking how we could resolve this matter to my satisfaction. I told them I would like the matter investigated and the officer disciplined in some matter. ( I would have gotten a 300 reckless driving ticket along with endangering passengers lives, etc... if I had done that move and been caught.)

    Personal Visit
    When I arrived home that evening there were two officers from the driver's precinct waiting at my house. They were polite, but not very happy. They asked if they could come in and discuss the problem. I politely obliged (if I had to do it over again, I would have just spoken with them from outside my home). They were really looking around the rooms as I brought them into my dining room and offered them some coffee. They explained that the officer was probably responding to a dangerous situation and had to get on scene fast. I did ask why he didn't use his overhead lights and siren to properly move traffic from his path. They had no idea. They said he was being reprimanded and the situation would be dealt with.

    Now they were really interested in how I got the email address of the various officials from within the dept. It seems they don't like to have those given out to the general public. (No idea why??) When I told them I guessed, they looked really confused.

    After a few minutes they left. On their way out, one of the officers gave me his card and said "You don't have to go the president for little issues like this" and something about I could call him directly in the future. I could really tell at that point they were peaved with the whole situation. (Also they had a good hour and a half ride back to their precinct in evening traffic.)

    Funny how a quick an email to the right people really rattled things up and got responses quickly when I was being stonewalled at the local level. (I did include in the original email the information about who answered my original complaint and who responded to my followup calls. Any time you speak with someone in a situation like this, get names, badge numbers and dates/time.)
     
  21. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    That kind of reminds me of the time I sicced the BKA (Bundes Kriminal Amt, the German FBI) on some neo-Nazis in usenet.

    Years ago (being the cowards they are) some neo-Nazis were using an anonymous remailer in Germany. Germany has some fairly serious laws about "hate speech", Holocaust denial, etc.

    The Nazis were being their usual imbecilic selves, but were being careful not to use the word "Jew". Instead, they used one of their euphemisms, "Khazar".

    I just KNEW they couldn't go forever without some kind of overt anti-Semitic statement, so I just sat and waited. Sure enough, one of them slipped up and posted some hate tract, specifying "Jews".

    I was on a long-range rifle mailing list that had a lot of European members, several of them Germans. I emailed one of them asking if he knew the email address for the BKA and or the Federal Prosecutor's Office. He came right back with both. I emailed the BKA a copy of the neo-Nazi screed with the comment, <Helmut_Dantine_Accent>"I believe that this usenet message violates the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany."</Helmut_Dantine_Accent>

    I didn't hear anything back from the German authorities, but ALL posts by the Nazis from that remailer mysteriously stopped within a day or so... :D
     
  22. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    "...let it go." "That's an exceptionally BAD idea. For an example of what happens when you just let those things go, look at the example of the Chicago PD. People just kept letting things go until it became a third world nightmare."

    I would agree IF the cops had been over zealous or discourteous. That kind of behaviour, allowed to continue, does have a future potential for harm. But, it sounds like those guys had their heads on straight and probably still do. Of course, if they didn't check the book bag and something slipped by it might have been deadly. It appears they just wanted to be sure, didn't hassle the guy and let him move on.

    On the other hand, they could easily have just held him for several hours or so to do everything by the book. If it had been me, I'd rather thank them for not subjecting me to that just to prove a pointless point, that they COULD get a proper warrant if they wished. I think the cops dealt with this potential problem in a well considered exercise of good judgement. Your milage may vary.
     
  23. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    I don't think an unconstitutional search can ever be described as an "exercise of good judgment." In fact, it would seem to be a prime example of bad judgment. Many of the restrictions on police authority has come from similar acts of initiative.
     
  24. silverlance

    silverlance Member

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    since you won't accept donations, and the one or two lawyers here don't think you have much of a case (bear in mind though that these are not CA lawyers.. in CA you can sue for lots of funny things like mental anguish)...

    at the very least, i ask you send a copy of the police report to MT, just so they can keep it on file. include a description of your event. that way if later on down the road a fight brews, then MT will have more ammo.
     
  25. Dr. Peter Venkman

    Dr. Peter Venkman Member

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    As I posted on Calguns, I don't believe the searching of you or your backpack were unconstitutional. AFAIK and IIRC from the classes I have taken that were taught by a LE Sgt, an officer can search a suspect as well as things under his immediate possesion or surroundings without a warrant, if they have reasonable suspicion/cause of a crime being committed. The girl who fed them the false information (unknown as such at the time) is who you have to thank for this. I don't understand why they lied to you about having a warrant, but I'd assume it's because they did not want to take the time to explain to you why they can search your backpack. Not my cup of tea, but that's what they did.
     
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