If being assaulted what would you do?

[johntaylorny]

Here is the situation:

You are armed. An unknown individual that is 1) of the same physical size/build as you and that 2) you are 100% certain is NOT armed with any type of weapon tries to rob you on a public street. He begins physically assaulting you with only his hands & feet (punching, slapping, kicking).

Your only options are:

1. Allow the assault to continue, try to run away
2. Draw your weapon, finger off trigger, but don't shoot
3. Shoot him

We were taught always #1. That when a person of your equal size who has no weapon never equals the threshold of imminent death to yourself and therefore you cannot draw your weapon.

 

[happygeek]

Umm, what about hitting him, attempting to execute one of the takedowns you were taught awhile back in combatives, kicking him in the balls, kicking him in the shins, mace to the face, etc.?

Why the heck would your only option be to draw?

 

[Bovice]

You shouldn't fight with a holstered weapon if you can help it. Should they get close enough and tangle you up, they're going to grab it and pop you with your own gun. Especially since most of you carry without a retention strap so you can make a wild-west draw. If you want the option of fighting physically, your holster had better have a retention strap to slow them down if an attacker tries to take it.

I'd only ever fight bare-handed if that's all I had. It's a painful experience and I still have a thumb that isn't quite right from one encounter. Not worth it.

The law says that you're justified in lethal force if you're in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured. A fistfight can kill or seriously injure you. Draw your weapon. Fire if necessary.

 

[Bovice]

This is what sucks about some of these threads. People come in and overcomplicate it. What if you have no choice to tuck your tail in between your legs and run to your car? What do you do when its time to do work, when there's no way out?

 

[Dionysusigma]

Get far enough away so I can draw and shoot, if they are still advancing. If someone of my size and build attacks anything, damage and/or death is almost a certainty.

If I break off and they don't pursue, then I probably wouldn't draw.

In a life-or-death adrenaline-charged flurry of panic and screaming, the most likely situation of all, I cannot honestly predict what I would do.

 

[Special_K]

Yes bovice, like understanding all of the self-defense laws, applying them, and then operating a firearm is so easy in the time an attack takes place. People over complicate them because they are complicated situations. I don't really like answering these types of questions because everyone can always throw a what-if in, and they could be completely correct with that what-if situation. Things happen quickly and each situation is dependent on a variety of variables and each of those variables could change the meter from "Talk him down" to "Light it up"

 

[Travis McGee]

Try to get away, while drawing the gun. You can't be "positive" he doesn't have a knife, and a person who is psycho/delusional can do a LOT of damage even if he's the same size.

I once volunteered in an ER long ago, and small folks with the DTs or other psychotic breakdowns going on could take six grown men to subdue.

 

[Deanimator]

How about in sequence:

1. Gyakute nage
2. Tekubi uchi to the eyes
3. Shuto uchi to the throat, repeating as necessary

I was a lousy runner as a 21 year old infantry second lieutenant. I'm not one bit faster at 52.

 

[Old Shooter]

I agree getting into a wrestling match while carrying a weapon is not a good idea. Best case is one of you gets a good whupping and you both go home, worst case they get control of your weapon and you get a taste of your own gold dots performance.

Assuming retreat is not possible or practical I would try to back out of it enough to draw and yell "back off, stop or I'll shoot" or some other words to that effect.

If they then continue to come after me I would assume they intend to do me some serious bodily harm or kill me and I would feel it is time to shoot.

I think it would be important to break it off enough so it gives them the time and option of calling it quits and going elsewhere for their fun and games.

If someone continues to attack me when they can see I am armed and ready it indicates to me there is either something very wrong with that person or they are on something and either one does not give me many options.

 

[ironcode]

This its precisely why I carry a pepper spray too. This situation would be the exact right time to use one if you have it, and run away. If you don't have that option, try to de-escalate and still run away (fight your way if you have to). You want to avoid turning this into an armed confrontation as much as possible.

 

[uspJ]

i'm surprised no one chimed in about using their situational awareness and avoid the guy before he was a threat or putting their hand on the grip of their gun and telling him to get back before he had a chance to close distance with them.

op why are these my only options? why can't i fight back? why can't i use non lethal means of protection such as oc? why can't i grab my knife and use it to aid in the retention of my pistol and get some distance from my attacker?

 

[SniperStraz]

In GA the statute protects those in imminent danger of serious bodily injury and/or loss of life. (Paraphrased)
If someone is attacking me there is going to be great bodily harm on one end or the other. I don’t fight for sport, so I’m not gonna stand up afterward and shake the guy’s hand. The whole point of carrying a weapon is to have the upper hand in a fight.

 

[qwert65]

More info is needed, he just walked up and started hitting me? I find that unlikely, but using your scenario... I'd prob fight with my hands first, it depends on the flurry of the attack, frankly with pocket and IWB it would be hard to draw if this guy was serious/knew what he was doing.

Everyone's answer will depend on thier ability and expierence. Me? I grew up in a rough nieghborhood fighting all the time. I'm 5'3" This would be the first time that my opponent wasn't bigger then me. I doubt I would draw

 

[easyg]

He begins physically assaulting you with only his hands & feet (punching, slapping, kicking).

Okay, then I guess for whatever reason it's already too late to avoid the situation entirely.

Your only options are:

1. Allow the assault to continue, try to run away
2. Draw your weapon, finger off trigger, but don't shoot
3. Shoot him

Option 1 is not an option. The guy could land one hit that could kill you or disable you for life.
Option 2 is just plain stupid.
Why would anyone draw their weapon and just hold it while someone else is kicking, slapping, and punching them?
Option 3 is the only reasonable course of action.

We were taught always #1. That when a person of your equal size who has no weapon never equals the threshold of imminent death to yourself and therefore you cannot draw your weapon.

I don't know who taught you this but they taught you wrong.
You cannot judge the potential lethality of someone merely by their physical size.
And all it takes is one punch or one kick to cause severe and permanent damage that could make you disabled for life, or even kill you.

I'm not a cop, and I'm not a mixed martial artist cage fighter either.
I'm not a bar-room bouncer or the next Chuck Norris.
I'm just your average middle-aged guy.
I don't think that I can outrun the average guy who's half my age, and I'm reasonably sure that I can't whip some young 20-30 year old thug in a fist fight.
This is one reason that I carry a pistol...so I will not become prey to those who are physically more capable than myself.
Remember, before guns existed the strong preyed upon the weak.
Guns changed that to a great extent....
With a gun an 80 year old man can easily stop a 20 year old predator.

Bottom line:
I'm not going to let someone kick, slap, and punch me, and take my hard earned money, and maybe take my very life as well, if I have the means to stop them.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Assuming you can't physically fight back takes a great many options off the table...

With the poster's requirements, my choice would probably be to cover up as much as possible and see exactly how much this clown knows how about hand to hand. I don't know if I'd have the confidence in my position to escalate it to lethal force just yet.

If he knows what he's doing and is throwing effective punches or doing anything else that might stand a chance of physically disabling me or getting a knockout, I'd draw.

Everyone here pretty much already knows this: After your weapon is presented, if the guy closes the distance... you are pretty much stuck with shooting him. If he gets his hands on you and gets your gun away from you, you'll likely be learning about the effectiveness of Speer within a second or two in the worst imaginable way.

Basically: 1. See if the guy really poses a legitimate threat to your life while he is unarmed (most people don't if you can stay on your feet).
2. If he knows a thing or two about fighting, draw. If he doesn't, cover up and try not to get hit in the jaw or get taken down.
3. With your pistol drawn, his life is in his own hands... If he gets within contact distance, it's time to empty the magazine.

Personally, I'd rather get hit a few times by your average Joe than have to deal with going to court to explain why I shot an unarmed man of roughly my size. If I got knocked down, the guy was a fighter, or if he had buddies...that's when I would draw. But that is just my personal thoughts while sitting here on the couch not getting assaulted... To each his own.

 

[DocCas]

I'm with Deanimator. 45 years ago it would have been no trouble at all for the young 11 Bang Bang I was back then to outdistance him, however, in my mid-60s I am not quite as fast as I used to be. A simple take-down restraint would work best for me.

However, if that proved to be unsuccessful, then the disparity of age and physical strength would probably give me a good defense if I was forced to draw my sidearm. If I felt my life was threatened by the strong-arm robbery/assault, my lawyer could probably make a pretty good case for justification.

 

[X-Rap]

If you submit to the beating as in option 1 you have submitted to the attack and your weapon is in worse danger of being turned on you than if you are fighting like your life depended on it. Counter violently and put distance between you and the attacker then draw and shoot him if he doesn't withdraw.
I would say that anytime you are assaulted by an unknown attacker by surprise or unknown reason you should draw as soon as you can break contact. It doesn't mean you have to fire but since you were attacked expect it to continue so why not be the guy to escalate in your favor?

 

[mrokern]

As with most things, this goes back to state law.

In MN and some other states, for example, simply being attacked by someone your size may not constitute immediate fear of GBH or death. Disparity of force laws are CRUCIAL here.

Simply doing #3 could be a one-way ticket to prison.

This is one of the many reasons that you are foolish if all you have in your toolbox is a gun. You do have other tools at your disposal, right? If not...

-Mark

 

[TexasRifleman]

That when a person of your equal size who has no weapon never equals the threshold of imminent death to yourself and therefore you cannot draw your weapon.

Where in the world do you live that your laws require you to take a beating without defending yourself? Move to a free state

But seriously, the self defense laws are not usually that simple.

 

[shockwave]

Not all fighting styles require the application of strikes (punches and kicks) in order to defend. Some arts emphasize using the opponent's energy against him. To a practitioner of this style, pretty much the worst thing you could do is walk up and start throwing combatives - you're just giving him energy to use against you.

The attacker in this scenario as described is probably going to be off balance and should be easy to knock down. If he's kicking, grab a leg and twist it, throw him into the bumper of a parked car or something. You only need to buy enough time to get your OC spray out, and then you can just mace him down good. I tell ya, some of these "what if" questions have a strong subtext of "so can I shoot him then? Can I shoot now? Can I?"

 

[Cosmoline]

tries to rob you on a public street.

If you know he's trying to rob you, deadly force would seem justified. But how often do criminals try to rob without a weapon? It's more likely (and more complicated) if he's just some crazy homeless guy who's attacking you but may or may not pose any real threat. It's situations like that where a little martial arts training can be useful to get out of the situation.

 

[w_houle]

Being assaulted is like being in an argument, just with more physical interface. Now you can try to predict what will happen, but in my experience, arguments and fights rarely go as planned. So on that note all I can say is to know the basics and just do what fits the situation best.
... and if someone trys to kill you, you go ahead and try to kill them right back.

 

[xXxplosive]

It's time for the Pepper Spray...........

 

[BullfrogKen]

An unknown individual that is 1) of the same physical size/build as you and that 2) you are 100% certain is NOT armed with any type of weapon

Non-sense.


This is impossible to know.


And threads begun like this truly are worthless.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Another Great Shrinking Thread. Folks, this one is teetering on the ragged edge of closure as it is, don't push it because it doesn't have far to go.

Unfortunately I have to say it again- no chestbeating, no headhunting, no bloodthirstiness... keep it as real as you can, be helpful if you can, or go someplace else to post.

One change in outlook here- there is NO WAY anyone can tell if an assailant is completely unarmed. Even if that is the case, fists, feet, elbows, knees etc. can be lethal or permanently disabling. We're not gonna go there as far as the "100% disarmed" thing is concerned.

lpl