At what point should you STOP talking to an LEO during a traffic stop or at home??

[JLStorm]

I started another thread about a cop stopping someone and asking how much money they had on them. That thread took on a complete life of its own, brought me to a whole other question:

As the below links state, seizures of cash and property are increasingly accepted by our government and LE agencies without a trial, being found guilty of anything, or having probably cause, because the items themselves "imply" cause or suspicious activity. Even if you are found not to have a connection to any illegal activity it can be almost impossible to get your money, property, firearms back. So what do you HAVE to say while at a traffic stop, and at what point can you stop talking. When you decide you feel uncomfortable answering any other questions, how do you state this effectively to an LEO without getting beat to hell, yelled at, or arrested. An example would be a simple traffic stop where an officer asks how much cash you are carrying, or where you are going, or if you have any weapons in the car, etc..

By the same token, how should this be handled if an LEO comes to your home? An example would be, an LEO knocks on your door, to ask you about some noise, or perhaps if you saw a car accident outside and asks to come in, or asks to have a look around.

At any rate, I dont want to start LEO bashing, I personally have never had trouble with the police, but I have seen some situations where others have, and this latest confiscation trend, especially of cash and firearms scares the crap out of me.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/1093c.asp
http://www.dailylobo.com/media/stora....dailylobo.com
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13415622/
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1056139927409
http://www.the-dispatch.com/apps/pbc...0339/1005/news
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...6/ai_n11476614

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

if you know you are guilty, i'd think you'd stop talking at the beginning. if you are not guilty then really i suppose there is no need to.

 

[jeep-2]

When he says, is that crack pipe yours??

 

[molonlabe]

The ACLU recommends this but you will probably get pounded into the ground,


I hereby invoke and refuse to waive all of the following rights and privileges afforded to me by the U.S. Constitution:
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. Do not ask me any questions.
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Sixth Amendment right to an attorney of my choice. Do not ask me any questions without my attorney present.
• I invoke and refuse to waive all privileges and rights pursuant to the case Miranda v. Arizona. Do not ask me any questions or make any comment to me about this decision.
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. I do not consent to any search or seizure of myself, my home, or of any property in my possession. Do not ask me about my ownership interest in any property. I do not consent to this contact with you. If I am not presently under arrest or under investigatory detention, please allow me to leave.
• Any statement I make, or alleged consent I give, in response to your questions is hereby made under protest and under duress and in submission to your claim of lawful authority to force me to provide you with information.

 

[JLStorm]

Common guys, Im serious...suppose you are not guilty of anything and the officers questions start to make you feel like you are violating your privacy as in:

• Can I come in
• I would like to look around
• how much cash are you carrying
• where are you going
• why are you going there
• what are you doing out this time of night
• do you have any <insert item> in the car
• I would like to look in the car

etc, etc...

 

[ilbob]

sounds like something that should be printed up and handed to any officer you come in contact with. if enough americans did so, a lot of nonsense would eventually stop.

 

[rbernie]

if you are not guilty then really i suppose there is no need to.

LOL. Better hope that my breath mints and/or coffee cans don't get me in trouble, innocent as they may be.

I've rarely had a simple traffic stop be anything but brief and to-the-point. The few times that the officer was clearly fishing, I simply (politely and with a genuine smile) asked the officer to explain what they were looking for, so that I could set their mind at ease and be on my merry. <shrug> Seems to work.

If it DIDN'T work, I'd probably clam up at that point and see what played out. I suspect that at no point would I ever verbally REFUSE to answer a question - I'd just not answer it.

I've never been asked to consent to a search. I doubt that I'd give that consent if asked.

 

[Lucky]

I was told that when they start asking lots of questions, especially involving details, that's when. If the basic outlines of the situation aren't enough (1 or 2 sentences describing the situation and your role in it) then you need a lawyer, because they've got the information they need and they're just trying to trip you up.


P.S.

Bernie, turns out that at least dryer sheets is true - on OLN they have the police dog competitions and one of the stages involves them.

 

[JLStorm]

dryer sheets?

 

[rbernie]

Used to hide the smell of drugs. Some posters here a while back, claiming to be LEO, like to expound upon how finding coffee cans or dryer sheets in a car constituted 'probable cause' for a search of the vehicle.

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

all i can say is that if you do go about not answering the questions, which is within your rights, dont be surprised that the officer may give you a ticket and not let you off with only a warning.

lots of Texas CHL holders state that alot of officers have given them warnings instead of tickets due to their cooperation and due to their CHL. i would suspect that their propensity to give a warning in lieu of a citation would dimish if you said something like:

I hereby invoke and refuse to waive all of the following rights and privileges afforded to me by the U.S. Constitution:
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. Do not ask me any questions.
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Sixth Amendment right to an attorney of my choice. Do not ask me any questions without my attorney present.
• I invoke and refuse to waive all privileges and rights pursuant to the case Miranda v. Arizona. Do not ask me any questions or make any comment to me about this decision.
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. I do not consent to any search or seizure of myself, my home, or of any property in my possession. Do not ask me about my ownership interest in any property. I do not consent to this contact with you. If I am not presently under arrest or under investigatory detention, please allow me to leave.
• Any statement I make, or alleged consent I give, in response to your questions is hereby made under protest and under duress and in submission to your claim of lawful authority to force me to provide you with information.

i think the ACLU probably recommends you say this when you are looking at getting arrested, not for something like speeding.

 

[ArmedBear]

Spreadfire is right, too.

Being generally smart is not precluded. If the cop seems like he's not so sure about giving you a ticket, give yourself a break.

As I said in the other thread, my priority is to take care of myself, whatever that means.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

The leo is not your friend.

Never speak to one unless you have to call 911 or report an accident.

If driving, present DL, registration and proof of insurance. Say nothing.

If you are not driving, like a passenger or walking on the street, state your name (if asked for ID, I like to show my dog tag, (official .gov issued)) and address, nothing more.

Remember Martha Stewart.

Even if they ask an innocuous question and even if you answer honestly, if they don't believe you, you are in trouble.

Silence is golden.

The fish that doesn't open it's mouth doesn't get caught.

Finally, if and when you get in front of the judge or grand jury and they say, "Answer the question, dirtbag." That is when you say, "Yes, judge, I will after I am granted unlimited immunity for all crimes I may have committed or have been suspected of committing in the past and in the present and as a result of anything that I may say today."

Don't forget to smile.

 

[FeebMaster]

I think a better question is: At what point should you START talking to an LEO?

 

[Keith Wheeler]

if you know you are guilty, i'd think you'd stop talking at the beginning. if you are not guilty then really i suppose there is no need to.

I would think that as a SOT you'd be in possession of lots of things that you'd rather not waste your valuable time trying to explain why they are perfectly legal to Barney Fife.

No, I'm not cop bashing, but let's be realistic. There are plenty of incredibly good reasons to not "tell all". A personal LEO acquaintance was discussing firearms with some friends and I. The topic of semi-auto Browning 1919s came up, and his comment was something along the lines of "oh, that's just bending the law". Wunnerful.

In this age of "constructive possession", and "any item designed or potentially re-designed" all it takes is one ignorant (I mean that in the real meaning -- that is one who does not know something he is capable of knowing) LEO to really foul your day up, even if it doesn't mean court time.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

all i can say is that if you do go about not answering the questions, which is within your rights, dont be surprised that the officer may give you a ticket and not let you off with only a warning.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The leo is not pulling you over to talk about the Red Sox.

He is not wondering if you have a good attitude.

He is trying to catch you in the commission of an illegal act.

Speeding? Take the ticket and shut up.

No criminal ever talked his way out of getting arrested.

Many a criminal has talked their way into getting arrested.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

you guys keep doing

what works for you.
i've gone a different route, an example
i ran a red light about 6 am headed home after night of drinking(hada sober up to drive) no license bad tags no inspection sticker. officer pulled me over did his usual license and registration bit. i told him i didn't have one hadn't in a couple years and that i hadn't registered the car to me when he noticed dead outa state tags. when he asked why i told him that i just got outa jail bought it a couple days back and couldn't/didn't get all the paperwork for registration and my license reinstatement done yet he got some info from me ran my name was able to verify that the truth i told him while bad was indeed the truth. he made me promise to take care of it that day and let me go. that was in montgomery county md. i got nailed for 95 in a 35 by a va trooper on rt 1 in woodbridge he was a lil hot when he stopped me. he asked "do you know how fast you were going!" i said yes sir about 95 when i saw your lights his demeanor changed he said at least you tell the truth and wrote it for 55 in a 35. best one was about 15 years ago got tagged for dui speed contest on a public highway possesion of controlled substance no license refusal of test and a weapons charge that made me eligible for operation exile. did that stupid truth trick again first with the cop and then again in court with judge i was so lame i told the judge that i knew it was wrong when i did it knew i'd get punished if i got caught and was here to take what i had coming. i ended up with a 250 dollar fine for dui and 1 year probation before judgment on the substance beef and they tossed the other charges. there are other examples but those are good examples(i was a busy drunk before i grew up in my late 30's)
but hey if you guys have formulated a better method for handling these police situations that you apparently spend a lotta time imagining and worring about maybe i should listen up i musta been doing it all wrong.

 

[crunker]

I was wondering, can you get in trouble for telling a cop to **** off if he's harassing you?

 

[psyopspec]

Two years ago I and a couple other guests were visiting a neighbor down the hall from my apartment when another neighbor from across the hall started knocking frantically on the door and calling for help. Her boyfriend was having a siezure in the hallway. Luckily the neighbor I was visiting was a CNA - she attended to the man in the hallway and I placed the 911 call.

The police arrived promptly 30 minutes later. Medics about 10 minutes after that. In between, the cop checked on the downed guy, then asked his girlfriend (the one who came to us for help) if he could look in her apartment. She gave a meek "yes." I was surprised he didn't find anything, as I knew that couple to be users of certain recreational drugs. He then asked my CNA neighbor if he could take a look in her place. She had all my respect when she looked him in the eye and said "I don't see what that has to do with the reason you were called." The cop asked again, and she gave a simple but confident "no." The fact that she, with nothing to hide, was informed enough about her rights and confident enough to exercise them really impressed me.

End of discussion, the medics took the boyfriend to the hospital for a gash he got when he went down. Treated and released, and that was that.

There are lots of ways to refuse, but as hard as it is, stay cool and don't treat their request personally. Always keep yourself in check and don't be afraid to take a few extra seconds to think before you speak, especially if the officer(s) are starting to get to you emotionally.

 

[romma]

Oddly enough, invoking your rights in many places in "grounds for suspicion". The minute you try to exercise your rights, they strip them from you... Of course not all of them. I predict eminent threadlock really soon. Even though I think our gun rights are tied in with the rest of them.

 

[ArmedBear]

but hey if you guys have formulated a better method for handling these police situations that you apparently spend a lotta time imagining and worring about maybe i should listen up i musta been doing it all wrong.

Method number one: don't DO any of the stuff you described...

I don't think anyone was trying to give you any advice, though. I really don't think that you'd get off so easily where I live, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not intending to find out. And nothing I've written is intended to encourage anyone to engage in illegal activities for recreation. Do not use as a hat.

There are lots of ways to refuse, but as hard as it is, stay cool and don't treat their request personally. Always keep yourself in check and don't be afraid to take a few extra seconds to think before you speak, especially if the officer(s) are starting to get to you emotionally.

Good point!

 

[DKSuddeth]

At my home

Can I come in
I would like to look around

I'd ask if he had a warrant then tell him no when he can't produce it.

 

[up_onus]

It all depends on what you have to hide?
The funny thing about the law is they make new laws all the time...It is hard to know exactly what the law is.

My humble opinion regards to what they ask....
Is it a question regarding you? - No reason to answer
Is it a question regarding anything else? - Why not help them out?

 

[ilbob]

I think a better question is: At what point should you START talking to an LEO?

Keep in mind the following facts of life. In any official interaction with any LEO, the LEO always believes you are either a threat or a criminal. Act accordingly.

It is never a good idea to chit chat with a cop. They are not there to make friends with you. They do not care whether you live or die. They are looking to find something they can hang on you to get themselves some brownie points, or to exercise their power craze, and the bottom line is if they want too, they will eventually find or fabricate something to use against you. Don't help them.

That does not mean you should be antagonistic, just to keep in mind your situation can go from mildly unpleasant to downright nasty very quickly, and it is in your own interests not to help in making your situation worse.

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

i think you should probably use your common sense. if you are looking at getting only a speeding ticket then i'd see if i could somehow get out of a ticket. conversely if i was looking at getting arrested i'd probably shut up.

i think telling the officers nothing all of the time is fine, but dont be surprised if you get a bunch of tickets!