I don't know the correct answer to this, been out of that particular line of work for many years. I would, if nothing to hide play their b.s. game..its a power trip. No winning there. If the guy is being an idiot, I guess you could kindly tell him that you feel threatened by him and if a supervisor can respond to the scene. Follow up with a formal complaint. If you're good guy with a gun under the seat and he ask if you have a gun, I myself would just say no. If he stops you for speeding take the ticket. nothing more to volunteer. They are not your friends. I don't know where people get the idea that cops don't get paid enough. Who else is going to pay you that? Just cause you signed up, don't mean I got to pay for your new house, cars, boats, kids college. If you can't make it on easy 50K, job security, benefits, that's your problem. Go back to school and go into a trade where you really have to know what you're doing. I never felt underpaid, hell, all of us thought were getting over big time.. ever wonder why there are literally thousands of applicants for one or two positions?
At what point should you STOP talking to an LEO during a traffic stop or at home??
- Thread starter JLStorm
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Pilgrim
Member
Once upon a time a deputy sheriff who should have known better told me my right to remain silent only started after he arrested me. I laughed in his face. He went away and bothered someone else.
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
upstate n.y. labor day wk/end 2 yrs ago i got off work 10/pm got on interstate onramp, rolled into a dui check by NYS Troopers, trooper askes where ya comin from...work...had anything to drink?? "pardner i've got a coin in my pocket cause ive not had anything to drink fer 16 yrs. longer than youve been a trooper"!!...other troopers chuckle..."whats in the case in the back seat?? my fiddle....it's fer sale!! why you sellin it?? cause i aint played the FUC*#ng thing in 16 yrs"!! other troopers are laughin out loud and shakin their head s. "you have a nice evening sir""! From what ive heard about some questions police ask, their asked to elicit certian responses.we went across the canadian border this summer, the canadian border guard(?) asked where we were goin,an such. last question he asked was do any of you have more than $10,000 in cash on you???when we all burst into laughter he smiled an handed back our ID an said he hears that response a lot.
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mike101
Member
Every time I've ever been stopped, they ALWAYS ask where I'm coming from. My answers have always been either "my parents house", or "my girlfriends's house", or "work". Their next question has always been "were you drinking?", to which I always answer "no".
Now, this is NJ, which is a well known Police State, so I have never tried just clamming up. I will next time, if there is one.
My question is, do I have to tell them where I'm coming from? I gather, from what I'm seeing here, that I do not. I'd like to know. If I don't, I'd really enjoy seeing how they react to a refusal to answer.
The problem is that a lot of small town cops in NJ will just lie, and falsely accuse you of whatever they want. Never had a problem with the Staties, though. I guess they don't feel they have anything to prove.
Now, this is NJ, which is a well known Police State, so I have never tried just clamming up. I will next time, if there is one.
My question is, do I have to tell them where I'm coming from? I gather, from what I'm seeing here, that I do not. I'd like to know. If I don't, I'd really enjoy seeing how they react to a refusal to answer.
The problem is that a lot of small town cops in NJ will just lie, and falsely accuse you of whatever they want. Never had a problem with the Staties, though. I guess they don't feel they have anything to prove.
Orthonym
Member
I think I've posted before on this, but it's on the old archives...
Back in the Autumn of '92, I was driving through Tatum, TX, on my way back to Atlanta, from Austin. I got pulled over for a totally taurifecally pretextually pretentious reason (Sir, I saw you pass one of yer tires over the white line on the pavement!)
The officer was all professional-like, so I offered to disagree with him, and refuse permission to search my truck. He said to me something like, "That is yer right, but I have the right to look at everything in "plain sight", and get a dawg out here to (I imagine, pretend to get excited and give excuses to) make up Probable Cause.
After he said that, I said, "Ok, here are the keys to the camper shell, please don't break the model airplanes" or something like that. That cop poked all through my baggage, including my underwear (Eww! Cop Germs!) and crawled under the truck, looking for Evil Drugs, I reckon. He got some fire ant bites for his trouble.
What bothered me the most about this was that he seemed to be an earnest, honest, person, convinced that he was doing the right thing. He even told me that he wouldn't put anything into my stuff that wasn't already there.
I mean, he thought he was an honest man, (and he did seem a decent guy) while doing outrageous violations of the Constitution upon me.
Owhell, I did get to warn his assistant about the technical problems with the Glock he was wearing, in 45ACP.
Back in the Autumn of '92, I was driving through Tatum, TX, on my way back to Atlanta, from Austin. I got pulled over for a totally taurifecally pretextually pretentious reason (Sir, I saw you pass one of yer tires over the white line on the pavement!)
The officer was all professional-like, so I offered to disagree with him, and refuse permission to search my truck. He said to me something like, "That is yer right, but I have the right to look at everything in "plain sight", and get a dawg out here to (I imagine, pretend to get excited and give excuses to) make up Probable Cause.
After he said that, I said, "Ok, here are the keys to the camper shell, please don't break the model airplanes" or something like that. That cop poked all through my baggage, including my underwear (Eww! Cop Germs!) and crawled under the truck, looking for Evil Drugs, I reckon. He got some fire ant bites for his trouble.
What bothered me the most about this was that he seemed to be an earnest, honest, person, convinced that he was doing the right thing. He even told me that he wouldn't put anything into my stuff that wasn't already there.
I mean, he thought he was an honest man, (and he did seem a decent guy) while doing outrageous violations of the Constitution upon me.
Owhell, I did get to warn his assistant about the technical problems with the Glock he was wearing, in 45ACP.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
No offense, but this thread is delusional.
Doing almost any of the things suggested here, opening your mouth or any of that is resisting arrest or a verbal threat/obstruction of justice. Many police are now taught that just about anything is resistance or a threat to them. Anything short of complete and total compliance and submission is a threat.
You will meet Mr. Taser really, really fast.
Civil Rights died a long time ago. We live in such a despotic police-state that simply exercising your God-given RIGHT to deny an officer from searching your vehicle instantly constitutes suspicion, probable cause and/or guilt. The gavel-wielding thugs in robes will gladly rubber stamp any warrant within minutes of a radio-call for one. They're all enforcers of the same gang aka the government. Conflict of interest, and you're the loser. You can win (more like a draw), but it will cost you months (maybe years) of your life, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees.
That is truly sickening.
OBTW, did I mention that you will be twitching on the ground in agonizing pain as they pump 50,000 volts through you repeatedly? Your body, involuntarily spasming from the electrocution will be viewed as physical aggression/non compliance as they keep electrocuting you and yelling commands at you that you cannot perform in a sadistic catch-22 of torture.
I wish this was fiction, but there's just too many videos depicting this sad reality.
I won't go any further as to what our founding fathers would have thought about this or have done about it. It isn't "High Road" to talk about American values or the proper response to tyranny.
Doing almost any of the things suggested here, opening your mouth or any of that is resisting arrest or a verbal threat/obstruction of justice. Many police are now taught that just about anything is resistance or a threat to them. Anything short of complete and total compliance and submission is a threat.
You will meet Mr. Taser really, really fast.
Civil Rights died a long time ago. We live in such a despotic police-state that simply exercising your God-given RIGHT to deny an officer from searching your vehicle instantly constitutes suspicion, probable cause and/or guilt. The gavel-wielding thugs in robes will gladly rubber stamp any warrant within minutes of a radio-call for one. They're all enforcers of the same gang aka the government. Conflict of interest, and you're the loser. You can win (more like a draw), but it will cost you months (maybe years) of your life, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees.
That is truly sickening.
OBTW, did I mention that you will be twitching on the ground in agonizing pain as they pump 50,000 volts through you repeatedly? Your body, involuntarily spasming from the electrocution will be viewed as physical aggression/non compliance as they keep electrocuting you and yelling commands at you that you cannot perform in a sadistic catch-22 of torture.
I wish this was fiction, but there's just too many videos depicting this sad reality.
I won't go any further as to what our founding fathers would have thought about this or have done about it. It isn't "High Road" to talk about American values or the proper response to tyranny.
Working Man
Member
I can attest to this (one time). I think it is a matter of benefit of the doubt
since you have already shone a level of responsibility by applying for and
being approved for a CHL. I know one LEO that told me "Every Concealed
carry holder is one less victim I have to deal with". I believe his thoughts
on this are on the right track (perhaps the wording could be better).
If the officer is acting polite or at least civil so to will I. At that point it is
simply a business transaction. He has his job to do so and so do I. Step
outside those bounds, encroach upon my rights, try to strong-arm me and I
have nothing better to do than legally be a thorn in his/her side.
1911 guy
Member
Name, rank and serial number.
Pretty much sums it up. The concept, at least. The cop isn't making small talk to pass the time, he's fishing. Anybody who tells you different is a naive optimist or a liar. The popular question is "Do you know why I stopped you?" If I was speeding, I admit it and take the ticket. Anything else is none of his business.
Pretty much sums it up. The concept, at least. The cop isn't making small talk to pass the time, he's fishing. Anybody who tells you different is a naive optimist or a liar. The popular question is "Do you know why I stopped you?" If I was speeding, I admit it and take the ticket. Anything else is none of his business.
“At what point should you STOP talking to an LEO during a traffic stop or at home??”
is far too good a question to get lost in thread drift and acrimony.
PLEASE let’s keep it civil and on thread.
From my extremely limited perspective ( I try to be a law abiding citizen, nowdays business contact with LEO rare ) my game plan is tell truth ( Prime directive when dealing with LEOs , do not lie a) Many LEOs have an extremely well developed ability to detect lies, and b) As a previous poster pointed out remember Martha Stewart. She went to jail not for the crime but rather for lying about it.
As to when to stop talking the guideline I’ve been to formulate is, when the questions get repeated, specific or progesively more detailed.
As for those who advocate talking freely because you have not done anything wrong please do not respond until after you have read
Actual Innocence, by Barry Scheck, Peter Neufeld and Jim Dwyer. or those or any other factual documentation of wrongful conviction rates. These type wrongful convictions are rare but they do occur. Just like LEOs being shot and killed by people pulled over for traffic violations. Horrible, tragic, rare but so horrendous that just as LEOs practice ( or should) “Officer Survival” tactics and techniques I also believe that non LEOs need to take the same viewpoint when dealing with LEOs due to possibility of wrongful arrest and wrongful conviction.
Now having said the above I’ve never had a what I would call bad treatment by cops, the few times my rights were violated (illegal searches), they cut me major slack on minor BS charges. Considering the amount of verbal abuse and lies that LEOs have to deal with daily I think the vast majority do a very good job. Are there abuses? Oh yeah on both sides. But IMHO that is a very small percentage.
NukemJim
is far too good a question to get lost in thread drift and acrimony.
PLEASE let’s keep it civil and on thread.
From my extremely limited perspective ( I try to be a law abiding citizen, nowdays business contact with LEO rare ) my game plan is tell truth ( Prime directive when dealing with LEOs , do not lie a) Many LEOs have an extremely well developed ability to detect lies, and b) As a previous poster pointed out remember Martha Stewart. She went to jail not for the crime but rather for lying about it.
As to when to stop talking the guideline I’ve been to formulate is, when the questions get repeated, specific or progesively more detailed.
As for those who advocate talking freely because you have not done anything wrong please do not respond until after you have read
Actual Innocence, by Barry Scheck, Peter Neufeld and Jim Dwyer. or those or any other factual documentation of wrongful conviction rates. These type wrongful convictions are rare but they do occur. Just like LEOs being shot and killed by people pulled over for traffic violations. Horrible, tragic, rare but so horrendous that just as LEOs practice ( or should) “Officer Survival” tactics and techniques I also believe that non LEOs need to take the same viewpoint when dealing with LEOs due to possibility of wrongful arrest and wrongful conviction.
Now having said the above I’ve never had a what I would call bad treatment by cops, the few times my rights were violated (illegal searches), they cut me major slack on minor BS charges. Considering the amount of verbal abuse and lies that LEOs have to deal with daily I think the vast majority do a very good job. Are there abuses? Oh yeah on both sides. But IMHO that is a very small percentage.
NukemJim
No.
However,
I would suggest that whether or not one chooses to exercise his right to remain silent is not always a black or white question. It is a matter of good judgment exercised in the circumstances at hand. That is, whether or not you have the right is not a gray area. It is crystal clear. Where some judgment may be needed is whether or not you choose to exercise that right at the moment.
There is no question but that to exercise your 5th Amendment right may be viewed by an honest and ethical LEO just doing his duty as being a refusal to cooperate. Human nature being what it is, this may result in a hassle which may not have otherwise happened -- first because he resents your attitude, and second because it can cause him to suspect that you have something to hide. In other words, Mike, you actually may not "enjoy seeing how they react to a refusal to answer."
On the other hand, as has been demonstrated several times on this thread, your choice to be cooperative at the wrong time may lead to your downfall.
I would think that when push comes to shove, if you are not sure, if you have some doubts about your judgment at the time in assessing the situation, or if you would feel more comfortable by having just one rule for every occasion, the rule should be keep your mouth shut after identifying yourself.
Jim
Orthonym
Member
The bad thing about the Martha Stewart case, is not so much that she lied, but that she said she hadn't done something which would not have been criminal, even had she done it.
In other words, she told the Feds that she didn't do something, which was perfectly legal to do.
As Jerry Pournelle recommends, when talking to the Feds, tell them nothing but your name, and *maybe* your date of birth. G. Gordon Liddy gives the same advice, and he used to be one, himself.
In other words, she told the Feds that she didn't do something, which was perfectly legal to do.
As Jerry Pournelle recommends, when talking to the Feds, tell them nothing but your name, and *maybe* your date of birth. G. Gordon Liddy gives the same advice, and he used to be one, himself.
I'd say that the bottom line for me in terms of speaking to an LEO is to converse with him/her as little as possible. They are not your advocate if they are the ones to start the contact with you. They're looking for information about something and you are their present focus.
Maybe your car looks like one just used in a gas station drive-off or someone gave the wrong address to the police dispatcher and now the LEO thinks that a drug deal is going on in your garage.
I will be civil with any LEO because I do not engage in law breaking, but by the same token I'm not going to be a chatter-box for an LEO who needs to spend more time working out his or her own personal problems before they start hassling an honest citizen with a power-trip based on the fact that they are an LEO.
Most cops have been fine to me, but you know that they have the same issues as everyone else and putting on an LEO uniform does not make their personal weaknesses vanish.
Talk as little as possible while still not presenting yourself as a jerk and inflaming the one in ten LEO that has deep personality issues that you may find are now your problems and just not his.
Maybe your car looks like one just used in a gas station drive-off or someone gave the wrong address to the police dispatcher and now the LEO thinks that a drug deal is going on in your garage.
I will be civil with any LEO because I do not engage in law breaking, but by the same token I'm not going to be a chatter-box for an LEO who needs to spend more time working out his or her own personal problems before they start hassling an honest citizen with a power-trip based on the fact that they are an LEO.
Most cops have been fine to me, but you know that they have the same issues as everyone else and putting on an LEO uniform does not make their personal weaknesses vanish.
Talk as little as possible while still not presenting yourself as a jerk and inflaming the one in ten LEO that has deep personality issues that you may find are now your problems and just not his.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I think the people who are saying that CCW holders are less likely to get a ticket are drawing the wrong conclusions about why they did not get a ticket.
First, let me say that I would agree that CCW holders probably do get less tickets. But I think it is because CCW holders are more likely to be males, white, a little bit older (ie, not teenagers), and maybe a little more responsible, so less likely to be drinking and driving. So they fit a profile of people that the police are more likely to let go when they pull them over, regardless of CCW status.
Now, when I am pulled over at a traffic stop, I am usually able to not get a ticket, if I play the game right. First, I fit the profile of someone the police are likely to let go... I am a white male, 40ish, usually driving a pick up truck, and usually on my way to work or home. If I appear contrite (even if I am not), use the word "sir" a lot, promise to never do that again (yeah right), and generally appeal to the officer's ego, I usually don't get a ticket. When this happens, I am glad I didnt get a ticket, but kind of feel bad that I have manipulated the system to avoid it, and I certainly feel like the officer didn't do his job fairly.
Sometimes, I just don't feel like kissing ass, and just sit there and answer the questions as tersely as possible. When I do that, I usually get a ticket. I don't like getting the ticket, but do feel the system worked more fairly, and the officer did his job correctly.
First, let me say that I would agree that CCW holders probably do get less tickets. But I think it is because CCW holders are more likely to be males, white, a little bit older (ie, not teenagers), and maybe a little more responsible, so less likely to be drinking and driving. So they fit a profile of people that the police are more likely to let go when they pull them over, regardless of CCW status.
Now, when I am pulled over at a traffic stop, I am usually able to not get a ticket, if I play the game right. First, I fit the profile of someone the police are likely to let go... I am a white male, 40ish, usually driving a pick up truck, and usually on my way to work or home. If I appear contrite (even if I am not), use the word "sir" a lot, promise to never do that again (yeah right), and generally appeal to the officer's ego, I usually don't get a ticket. When this happens, I am glad I didnt get a ticket, but kind of feel bad that I have manipulated the system to avoid it, and I certainly feel like the officer didn't do his job fairly.
Sometimes, I just don't feel like kissing ass, and just sit there and answer the questions as tersely as possible. When I do that, I usually get a ticket. I don't like getting the ticket, but do feel the system worked more fairly, and the officer did his job correctly.
I must admit I normally get on fairly well with the "wallopers" and rarely have trouble with them.
Only the other night we were staying at the Tidal River campground with a group of friends when the younger members of the party decided they wanted to go looking for wombats. After about half an hour I went looking for them and found them sitting at one of the tables talking. After a short while a car pulled up and lit us up with a spot-light, a voice from inside the car asked "What are you young kids up too?" I walked over and removed my hat to reveal my bald and somewhat ugly head and replied, laughing, "Who are you calling a young kid?". The copper inside the car laughed and removed his cap to show he had almost as much skin above his eyebrows as I did. I guaranteed the Senior Constable that this group of teenagers would cause him no problems that night (as if they did, he'd be the least of their problems) and he moved off to complete his rounds.
One thing that does irk me, I'm often stopped at a random breath testing station on the way home from work. After a twelve hour shift, when I'm sitting their in my screw suit complete with long service ribbons on my shirt, having a nineteen year old kid ask "Have you had anything to drink tonight Sir?" p***** me off. I don't mind the breath test, but getting that question when I'm obviously on my way home after a shift in a maximum security prison illustrates to me that some young coppers aren't very observant.
Only the other night we were staying at the Tidal River campground with a group of friends when the younger members of the party decided they wanted to go looking for wombats. After about half an hour I went looking for them and found them sitting at one of the tables talking. After a short while a car pulled up and lit us up with a spot-light, a voice from inside the car asked "What are you young kids up too?" I walked over and removed my hat to reveal my bald and somewhat ugly head and replied, laughing, "Who are you calling a young kid?". The copper inside the car laughed and removed his cap to show he had almost as much skin above his eyebrows as I did. I guaranteed the Senior Constable that this group of teenagers would cause him no problems that night (as if they did, he'd be the least of their problems) and he moved off to complete his rounds.
One thing that does irk me, I'm often stopped at a random breath testing station on the way home from work. After a twelve hour shift, when I'm sitting their in my screw suit complete with long service ribbons on my shirt, having a nineteen year old kid ask "Have you had anything to drink tonight Sir?" p***** me off. I don't mind the breath test, but getting that question when I'm obviously on my way home after a shift in a maximum security prison illustrates to me that some young coppers aren't very observant.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
last nite
about 9 on the way into my neighborhood i encounter a car on its side blocking the road. young man and his girl friend standing beside it ok but shake. cops show up and i get to listen kid(23 ) aknowledges his responsibility in going too fast for road conditions and describes what happened. cop writes it all up on accident report. then he looks at the kid tell him hes not gonna give him any extra bad news today. since he was honest enough to say he was going too fast the cop figures hes already been punished enough . and against all the possible stereotypical guesses it was a young white redneck cop 23 year old black guy with a 17 year old white girl friend driving a yellow car. one of those lil silly boxes the kids trick out like a lil hatch back deal had extreme on the side in chrome( i am not up to speed with what kids drive nowadays)
the kid was polite and well raised i met his dad when i drove him home and presented well to the cop as well as me.
but as always ymmv to be honest i was a lil concerned for him thats why i hung around i was wondering how he'd do vis a vis his age and his g/f's and i am not naieve enough to think that there aren't still some folks who, might not be cool with his having a white g/f. in this case antway he got a cop who coulda been doing a training video. he was all about protect and serve and in particular making sure they were both ok. the girl initially refused to let the parmedics look at her and he/we though she might have a concussion and he strongly urged and the supported her b/f as he insisted the girl get checked out. of course he might have left there then kicked down a door and shot a puppy but not while i was watching
about 9 on the way into my neighborhood i encounter a car on its side blocking the road. young man and his girl friend standing beside it ok but shake. cops show up and i get to listen kid(23 ) aknowledges his responsibility in going too fast for road conditions and describes what happened. cop writes it all up on accident report. then he looks at the kid tell him hes not gonna give him any extra bad news today. since he was honest enough to say he was going too fast the cop figures hes already been punished enough . and against all the possible stereotypical guesses it was a young white redneck cop 23 year old black guy with a 17 year old white girl friend driving a yellow car. one of those lil silly boxes the kids trick out like a lil hatch back deal had extreme on the side in chrome( i am not up to speed with what kids drive nowadays)
the kid was polite and well raised i met his dad when i drove him home and presented well to the cop as well as me.
but as always ymmv to be honest i was a lil concerned for him thats why i hung around i was wondering how he'd do vis a vis his age and his g/f's and i am not naieve enough to think that there aren't still some folks who, might not be cool with his having a white g/f. in this case antway he got a cop who coulda been doing a training video. he was all about protect and serve and in particular making sure they were both ok. the girl initially refused to let the parmedics look at her and he/we though she might have a concussion and he strongly urged and the supported her b/f as he insisted the girl get checked out. of course he might have left there then kicked down a door and shot a puppy but not while i was watching
I have informed my kids with driver's licenses that if they are involved in an auto accident that they believe is their fault, to give only the minimum required info to the LEO.
No one is required by law to incriminate themselves. Remember that the LEO is gathering info and you don't want to add fuel to the other guy's case if you are sued.
For example, I told my son the if he rear-ends someone while picking up a CD off the passenger seat floor of his car :banghead: that he does not have to devulge that info to the LEO on scene. It's enough to just say " I just couldn't stop fast enough. No more, no less.
Working Man
Member
Perception/presentation has a lot to do with it....
I use to drive a 98 Chevy, extend cab, loooooong bed, in dark green. Not lifted, just regular
tires, no fancy chrome just standard..... till it got hit. I had an LEO tell me that I'd have to
be driving like a mad man to get pulled over. When I asked him why he said "Because
that is the truck of a 35 year old guy with a wife, 2 kids, and a mortgage. If you are going
10 or 15 miles over the limit we'll figure you are going home to the wife, trying to get there
on time for something important
and not wanting to sleep on the couch".
I was 26 at the time.
Never was pulled over or paced in that truck......
As apposed to the every other day with my beat up white 87 Chevy single cab long bed. Oddly
my 77 did not get pulled over much... just twice if I remember correctly.
I would not want to be 21 again for all the tea in China.
I use to drive a 98 Chevy, extend cab, loooooong bed, in dark green. Not lifted, just regular
tires, no fancy chrome just standard..... till it got hit. I had an LEO tell me that I'd have to
be driving like a mad man to get pulled over. When I asked him why he said "Because
that is the truck of a 35 year old guy with a wife, 2 kids, and a mortgage. If you are going
10 or 15 miles over the limit we'll figure you are going home to the wife, trying to get there
on time for something important
and not wanting to sleep on the couch". I was 26 at the time.
Never was pulled over or paced in that truck......
As apposed to the every other day with my beat up white 87 Chevy single cab long bed. Oddly
my 77 did not get pulled over much... just twice if I remember correctly.
I would not want to be 21 again for all the tea in China.
I hear that. When I was a long-haired kid driving a yellow convertible sports car in the early 1970's, me and my car were an LEO magnet! :banghead:
Cops would pull a U-turn in the middle of a four lane highway just to give me a bogus ticket for 'following too close'. Total hog wash.
Another sheriff deputy picked me and my sports car out of about 50 other cars, all speeding, to give me the citation!
It was crew-cut cop vs. 'hippie'. I lost.
Kevin wrote:
no consent given vs. did not feel he could say no
Come again?
Either he gave the consent, and they searched, or they performed an illegal search without consent... which was it?
Or did they just say "Yeah... we're gonna need to search your car sir, just stand over here out of the way..." and the kid just gapes with his mouth open and no sounds coming out while he is escorted to the roadside?
Sorry, it just sounds confusing that no consent was given but he didn't say no either, so I'm having trouble figuring out how a search happened. I dunno, maybe you meant they didn't call the owner of the car (you) to get YOUR consent, but the driver (your kid) didn't say no when they said they wanted to search? If he didn't say NO then I'm wondering what he DID say that resulted in a search happening. Just trying to learn something, not criticize.
no consent given vs. did not feel he could say no
Come again?
Either he gave the consent, and they searched, or they performed an illegal search without consent... which was it?
Or did they just say "Yeah... we're gonna need to search your car sir, just stand over here out of the way..." and the kid just gapes with his mouth open and no sounds coming out while he is escorted to the roadside?
Sorry, it just sounds confusing that no consent was given but he didn't say no either, so I'm having trouble figuring out how a search happened. I dunno, maybe you meant they didn't call the owner of the car (you) to get YOUR consent, but the driver (your kid) didn't say no when they said they wanted to search? If he didn't say NO then I'm wondering what he DID say that resulted in a search happening. Just trying to learn something, not criticize.
PennsyPlinker
Member
57Coastie said:
I know that. That is why I put the smiley there.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
good point working man
cops are working stiffs and they seem definitly to cut slack if they think you are a working guy.i've been pulled over many times for stuff and given warning and quite a few times with some commet like he at least your working for a living. you should see the reaction when they go to run my name and they ask "have you ever been arrested?" and i reply oh god yes hundreds of times, but not in quite a while. you see they are playing a game as part of their job folks hide stuff and they try to find out what they are hiding. they can't really jack up everyone looking so they hunt for clues to help find the good ones. when i tell the truth about being locked up a bunch and without a lotta attitude its one of those times where the truth will set you free. cops get tired of everyone feeling compelled to lie. heck their own mom would probably lie about how fast she was driving to em. so when they get a no bs truthful answer they often respond favorably. its disrespectful to lie nd when i tell the truth it shows respect, to antone not just cops. and respect gets respect and often considerations as well. it works for me in buisness as well.i thyink folksget caught up in their issues with real or imaginary jack booted thugs and forget that police work is truly blue collar work often long hours dirty nasty conditions with a bunch of stuck up "folks" looking down at you like your dirt. i know how that is i get back at em by charging em good for attitude. cops have their ways too.are there bad ones sure! but when some pissant decribes them all by the actions of the few we polarize the good officers against the civilian world. for the creation of the blue wall of silence is the work of folks on both sides and while i do hear of cops taking action to rid their world of debris itsur obligation as those on the other side to do our part too. but silly me i ascribe to a code of conduct that todays society invalidates. oh well. but remember that if we want the blue wall down it'll take work from both sides
cops are working stiffs and they seem definitly to cut slack if they think you are a working guy.i've been pulled over many times for stuff and given warning and quite a few times with some commet like he at least your working for a living. you should see the reaction when they go to run my name and they ask "have you ever been arrested?" and i reply oh god yes hundreds of times, but not in quite a while. you see they are playing a game as part of their job folks hide stuff and they try to find out what they are hiding. they can't really jack up everyone looking so they hunt for clues to help find the good ones. when i tell the truth about being locked up a bunch and without a lotta attitude its one of those times where the truth will set you free. cops get tired of everyone feeling compelled to lie. heck their own mom would probably lie about how fast she was driving to em. so when they get a no bs truthful answer they often respond favorably. its disrespectful to lie nd when i tell the truth it shows respect, to antone not just cops. and respect gets respect and often considerations as well. it works for me in buisness as well.i thyink folksget caught up in their issues with real or imaginary jack booted thugs and forget that police work is truly blue collar work often long hours dirty nasty conditions with a bunch of stuck up "folks" looking down at you like your dirt. i know how that is i get back at em by charging em good for attitude. cops have their ways too.are there bad ones sure! but when some pissant decribes them all by the actions of the few we polarize the good officers against the civilian world. for the creation of the blue wall of silence is the work of folks on both sides and while i do hear of cops taking action to rid their world of debris itsur obligation as those on the other side to do our part too. but silly me i ascribe to a code of conduct that todays society invalidates. oh well. but remember that if we want the blue wall down it'll take work from both sides
Orthonym
Member
Dang, JohnMelb, I had no idea that you were Screwish! You seem so normal. Never mind, some of my best friends are Screws. Honest! No Kiddin!
Snork.
Snork.
Understood, Pennsy, and I am sorry about the implication. My superfluous response was really intended for those on the forum, if any, who might have thought you were serious. It was unfair of me, but not intended. I went out of my way to include the smiley when I quoted you.
Mea culpa.
Good cheer,
Jim
ForeverArmed
member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
- Messages
- 191
As cropcirclewalker said, the police are NOT your friends, no matter how much one might try to convince you otherwise. Their goal is to put you in prison.
Never, EVER trust a cop. It never hurts to be civil when dealing with them (or anyone else for that matter), but as soon as they start asking you for more than your ID or for clearly innocuous info (e.g., the details of an accident you witnessed), the best thing to say is something like this:
"It's nothing personal, but as a general rule I don't answer questions from the police. I don't want to falsely and accidentally implicate myself in anything."
Then clam up. If they badger you, then simply repeat the above lines.
Never, EVER trust a cop. It never hurts to be civil when dealing with them (or anyone else for that matter), but as soon as they start asking you for more than your ID or for clearly innocuous info (e.g., the details of an accident you witnessed), the best thing to say is something like this:
"It's nothing personal, but as a general rule I don't answer questions from the police. I don't want to falsely and accidentally implicate myself in anything."
Then clam up. If they badger you, then simply repeat the above lines.
cassandrasdaddy
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- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
i can remember when fear ruled my life
then i changed how i live and got free of the fear. its good to see reminders of my past to reaffirm why i needed to change
then i changed how i live and got free of the fear. its good to see reminders of my past to reaffirm why i needed to change
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