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If you shoot sub-MOA at 25 yds offhand with handguns, do not bother to read

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Impureclient, Nov 6, 2012.

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  1. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    25 yards is approximately 1/4 MOA which translates to approximately 1/4".

    I cannot shoot handguns that well and am happy with 4-6" groups.
     
  2. Impureclient

    Impureclient Member

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    Wow, now that I looked it up there are a ton of videos shot nonstop of consistent amazing grouping at 25 yards and beyond.
     
  3. natman

    natman Member

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    There are hundreds of guys who can actually do it.

    There are hundreds of thousands of guys who claim they can actually do it.
     
  4. SloChicken

    SloChicken Member

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    This is the,
    Best,
    Post,
    Ever ...
     
  5. MyGreenGuns

    MyGreenGuns Member

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    When I first started shooting, I was happy shooting paper at close distance at a range. I got better than the average range shooter with my primary handgun and moved outdoors.

    Out in the sticks I met a group that is scary-good. I shoot with them and I am a student. Theyre shooting at coins and beercaps while I shoot cans at half the distance. They view my ability as "better than average".

    I also shoot with a group that are all novice, and I am the teacher. They see my ability as "amazing".

    I like shooting with the pros, it makes me try harder. I like shooting with the noobs, it lets me feel like a pro.
    :cool:
     
  6. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    I sold a 9mm G19 to a guy because I wasn't shooting well with it. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. (Well, it wasn't THAT bad, but it WAS bad enough that I had no interest in the firearm any longer.)

    A month later, I ran in to him at the range during a match. He went on to beat me in Minor Auto so profoundly and thoroughly that I about cried. He was using my old gun, as is, no changes made. He set the course record that day.

    I don't regret selling the firearm; in fact it's the first and only time I was 100% sure that I'd sold a gun to the "right home." Some people are just a natural match for certain firearms.

    He's a hell of a shot, we run in to each other sometimes at the range and trade pieces for a few strings; he invariably kicks my behind no matter what we're using on the pistol range. Rifle range... different story. Not many locals can keep up with me on rifles. :)
     
  7. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Member

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    I tend to find folks obsess about group size. From a practical perspective, if you can shoot a 4" group that is usually good enough for that distance for hunting or self defense applications. Often I tend to shoot about 3 MOA with my rifles and I'm satisified with that most of the time. Pistols, the furthest I shoot is usually 15 yards. I can do better than 4" groups if I want to slow down.
     
  8. Impureclient

    Impureclient Member

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    My title only had handguns in it but this subject is not just handgun related. I figured since I mentioned rimfires at 50 and scopes in the original post that this would have been construed as any gun. It was a general question which came about after reading about a .22 rifle elsewhere.
     
  9. Dnaltrop

    Dnaltrop Member

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    With Pistols, once I'm familiar with the gun/load, 4" at 50' is fairly standard for me if I take any sort of time with the shots. (Opens up at speed, but still decent on silhouettes)

    With a .38, .40, 9mm or .45, at 7-10 yards I pick off empty .410 shells, stuck onto the ends of twigs and blades of grass with decent consistency.

    The Schofield replica tends to get very inaccurate past 7 yards,

    I can't quite cloverleaf the Blackhawk. (still working loads and sight adjustments, but it's CCW worthy, just not hunting-worthy yet)

    The High Standard .22 M Frame is a great gun.

    First shot is high speed, Second photo is VERY Slow fire, both unsupported at 50'. (edit, and yes, that is probably the best grouping that I've ever shot, hands down. )
     

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  10. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    I have a Colt Woodsman, made in 1938, that can shoot 3/4" groups at 25 yards -- if I really concentrate. But that's the only handgun I have (out of 13 in my gun safe) that will do that.
     
  11. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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  13. BLB68

    BLB68 Member

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    What are Thugly's dimensions?
     
  14. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    A little slimmer than Fugly, but not so tall.:p
     
  15. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Thugly, (goofy name that popped into my head when it arrived in the mail), is 14 1/4" tall at the "head", and 8 7/8" wide, 3/8" thick AR500.

    IDPA2.jpg

    The company that sent it to me no longer exists, but a new local outfit is making steel targets, ShootersElement.
     
  16. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    I shoot bullseye competitvely, so yeah, I can really shoot some nice groups, and know lots of guys that can. I also see lots of people on here make some pretty crazy claims. Its normal in the gun world though.

    There was a local guy that hung around the gun shop and bragged about how good his groups were, always at 25 yards. Finally one day me and another guy took him to the range with us. He went out and put a target out at about 12 yards. Then proceeded to brace himself on the shooting bench and shoot from rest. When I asked him what he was doing, he said he was getting in his 25 yard practice.
     
  17. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

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    Some folks need to get out more. I've shot sub-MOA at 25yds with a scoped pistol. One time. It was not off-hand but over sandbags.

    I have several revolvers that will do 1"@25yds but again, this is over sandbags. If I hold my mouth just right, those sixguns will do 2" at 50yds. Which is the gold standard.

    I wouldn't keep a fixed barrel .22 auto like the Buckmark or Ruger MK-series if it did not shoot ½"@25yds, again, benchrested.

    That said, there is a lot of BS on the internet. There's also a lot of shooters with a broad range of experience. There is also seemingly a lot who think that because they can't do something, no one can. I don't post anything that is not true. If there were extenuating circumstances, I share that. My numbers are almost always benched. For I really don't care how any other shooter can do on his hind legs, so I don't bother to bore others with my off-hand shooting results. I just want to know what the guns are capable of. Those are facts that are actually useful, to me.
     
  18. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I've seen some really good shooters who just blow me away without thinking about it. Having run both indoor and outdoor ranges in my time, I've also seen some that were so bad standing in front of them was almost the safest place to be! I especially loved the ones who shot "gangsta" sideways style, and would thrust the gun forward at the moment of the shot, perhaps to pick up another 2 or 3 FPS? They usually were very proud of hitting a full size B-27 at 3 yards. I'd be proud to, trying to shoot like that...:what:
    I was out with a buddy not too long ago who was shooting Pugly, (looks like a pig's head, from the same company, hence the name he chose),

    LarrysteeltargetPUGLYat100yards.jpg

    ...and hitting it with a Ruger Redhawk at 200 yards, benched, no optics. He shrugged it off. Note the hit on the stand to the right - I think I did that when I tried to copy his feat with his permission...oops. That was probably as close as I got...the hole at the top was him, I swear it. Really.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  19. Ankeny

    Ankeny Member

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    I do spend a bit of time hanging around some good shooters. Still, I see plenty of claims on the Web (including this forum) that exceed the accepted limits of human ability. This especially true when you read some of the posts that combine accuracy with speed. Internet BS isn't worth getting all torn down about. But I have to admit it is fun to raise the BS flag from time to time (maybe a little troll deep down inside). ;)
     
  20. mls

    mls Member

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    Beware the offer to bring your gun, ammo and cash...you will leave with two if you are lucky.
     
  21. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Look at the title of this thread, minute of angle at 25 yards. That's a 1/4" group!

    With my most accurate gun, the one I shoot best (a 1938 Colt Woodsman), I can shoot a 3/4" group if I do everything right. A 1/4" group shot from a standing unsupported position? I'd have to see it to believe it.
     
  22. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    kwhi43@kc.rr.com Member

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    This is a target I shot in competition at 25 yds. One hand free standing.
    10 shots. This is not fourm BS, but the real thing. And yes I do shoot at
    the Nationals each year and I do win sometimes. The kicker here is that
    this is Black Powder Muzzleloading shooting.
    SmallS.jpg
     
  23. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    Well, you're obviously not shooting sub-MOA (which would be 1/4 inch) at 25 yards, so you've proven that you meet the OP's requirement to read this thread.

    If I posted one of my targets, I wouldn't be allowed to read this thread. ;)
     
  24. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    I think we have some confusion. "MOA" means "Minute of Angle" In other words, group size is proportionate to range. A minute of angle subtends about 1" at 100 yards. At 25 yards, a minute of angle would subtend 1/4". At 200 yards, it would subtend 2" and so on.
     
  25. snakeman

    snakeman Member

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    I get what you're saying. I am a good shot with my rifles and off a bench I can produce one hole groups given my gun can. However, with a handgun 1" at 25 yards isn't impossible, again off a bench. Offhand I can usually hover around 3" at 25 yards with my 357 and m&p 9mm. I can get about 2" with my buckmark.
     
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