Target Shooting - Is Anyone Telling The Truth?

[Phydeaux642]

Okay, I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but I want to know if there are more people out there telling the truth or telling tales about their prowess target shooting with handguns.

I read quite a few posts where folks claim that they can shoot 2" groups or better at 25 yards all day long unsupported. I also read posts that say the handgun is plenty accurate at 50 yards if you do your part. The only problem with that is I don't think there are that many people out there that can "do their part".

I have come to these conclusions based on what I see at the range where I shoot. Many of the people are doing well to just hit the target every time at 7 yards. Accuracy goes way down at 10 and 15 yards and is next to non-existant at 25 yards.

I don't see many shooters where I shoot that are much better shots than I am and I can't shoot a 2" group offhand at 25 yards. So, either everyone where I shoot really sucks or there may be some embellishment going on.

Disclaimer: This post is just for fun. I'm not calling anyone a liar. I am intersted in how good a shot some of you may be on a consistent basis, though.

 

[ScottyT]

I am constantly working on improving, but I am far from great...

I usually shoot 4-6" groups at 7 yards, good enough for SD proficiency, but nowhere near where I want to be!

I should be into the reloading game by next spring and I will be shooting a lot more then!

 

[ZeSpectre]

I'm generally pretty consistent and I have to stay honest because there are too many people here who know me personally and won't hesitate to call BS instantly on me if I get "creative" <grin>.

All targets printed on 8.5x11 sheet of paper.

Good day
Left (strong) handed only, unsupported, 30 ft.



Another good day
Left (strong) two handed, 30 ft




Not so good day. 15ft with a mouse gun.
Left only unsupported and right only unsupported



Typical "Self Defense" draw from holster and rapid fire then reload and rapid fire, rinse/wash/repeat.
Left (Strong) hand, two handed, 50 ft.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

I'm sure some people exaggerate their skills, but maybe not as many as you think. I have shot smaller groups than 2'' freehand with a few of my handguns at 25 yards. I can't do it with all of my handguns or even half of them. I have put an entire cylinder of ammo into one hole at 25 with my model 29, my 608, and my blackhawk. And I've seen people shoot who were much better than me. Alot of it depends on how much you practice.

 

[gwnorth]

Was that a 2" group at 25yds, or a 25" group at 2yds?

Certainly not the former for me. With either my 4" or 6" GP100, shooting .38spl or +p loads, I can do a 6-7" group at 25yds consistently. Switch over to full .357 loads, and things spread out and get far less consistent (plus I don't shoot nearly as much .357 due to the cost).

With my PT1911, no way, but then I just really have not gotten comfortable (let alone good!) with those Heine straight 8 sights. I need to just really practice more with that gun at 7-10yds and learn the sights first.

Shooting my SIG P226 at 10yds, my groups are pretty tight in the 2-3" range (slow, deliberate firing).

All that said, I've watched a retired state trooper sitting at the rifle range with his 6" S&W 686 and he can shoot a solid 12" group at 100yds - only seen him out there a couple of times, but that guy is just friggin' amazing.

give this a read - http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/shot_022305/

 

[Titus]

It's like when you go to a casino and you meet up with your friends later and they ask how you did and you say "broke even" which means "nobody saw me lose all my money". But I do believe most guns are more accurate than they'll get credit for in the hands of many shooters.

One thing that helped my handgun shooting was to be stuck for a while on a fixed range with the target stand set at an odd ~32 yards. With targets in closer, it's easier to not focus on the basics as much or not to see as much of a difference on target.

 

[Dksimon]

QUOTE
"I read quite a few posts where folks claim that they can shoot 2" groups or better at 25 yards all day long unsupported."

Totally wrong! I use my weak hand unsuported when i shoot at 25 yards.


hahaha, I will be the first to admit that I'm not a very good shot but I just moved to a new area and will be joining the private range here pretty soon!

 

[Justin]

This is why I'm an advocate of shooting competitively. Not only does your skill improve as you shoot more in your chosen discipline, but you also get as close to an unbiased evaluation of your skill as is possible.

 

[helz_mcfugly]

HAH, yea Ive wondered the same thing. I shoot alot at 50 feet and I do pretty good compaired to others shooting at the same distance. my groups are on average about 1 to 1 1/2 inches and thats with a 40 cal glock 22. I see about the same results from the guys with 1911's. Ive seen people over at the 25 and 50 yard range shooting pistols and not even hitting the paper unless they have scopes or 6" or better barrels. Even then most of their shots are flyers. I might try my hand at the 25 yard next time I go just for the hell of it. I just got a new Rock Island 1911 and havent shot it yet so Ill test its 5" barrel at 50 feet which is the norm and 25 yards against my 40 cal Glock. Ill let ya know how it goes.

 

[MJRW]

I think many confuse yards for feet. I had a friend who claimed to shoot "dime sized groups" at 100 yards with a Kel-tec sub 2000 open sighted regularly. When we went to the range, I put the carrier half way out at the range. I asked him how far that was. He answered "about 100 yards." It was at 75 feet. And he shot about 4" groups at 75 feet. He's since become a more honest shooter.

 

[Dksimon]

QUOTE
"I read quite a few posts where folks claim that they can shoot 2" groups or better at 25 yards all day long unsupported."

Totally wrong! I use my weak hand unsuported when i shoot at 25 yards.


hahaha, I will be the first to admit that I'm not a very good shot but I just moved to a new area and will be joining the private range here pretty soon!

 

[helz_mcfugly]

damned internet made me post my comment twice. I dont like the internet as much now as i did before it was on computers, har

 

[OregonJohnny]

I've wondered this as well. I do mostly "plinking" out in State Forest land, not formal shooting at a range, and never sitting or shooting supported with any kind of rest. When I shoot at paper targets at about 10 yards away, most of my handguns group at around 7-10", strong hand, unsupported, shooting about 1 round per second or two. When I really take my time (4 or 5 seconds between shots) and squeeze very slowly and deliberately, I can get much better groups out of my 1911 and Beretta 92, more like 4-5" at 10 yards.

 

[PRM]

Shooting

Deleted

 

[Jst1mr]

Remember...

There are true "students of the game" - those who bother to study the technique and practice, practice, practice....and there are those who just enjoy banging away. Nothing wrong with either, but if you truly want to get better, there are tons of technique books and/or training available.

 

[jwr747]

zip over to a Bulls Eye match and watch some of the "old Pros" run a 2700 course. maybe not all day long,but long enough to eat a pretty good hole in the black. jwr

 

[mr.72]

I am new to this and don't have a lot of friends who shoot a lot. I have yet to see anyone put 10 shots in a row on an 8" target at 15 yards. I am sure there are some good pistol shooters out there but I haven't me them. This includes guys who have been shooting all their lives.

 

[Old Fuff]

Once upon a time people learned handgun marksmanship by joining clubs that promoted bullseye target shooting. Stages of fire were conducted in slow (5 shots/5 miin.) timed (5 shots / 20 sec.) and rapid (5 shots / 10 sec.) fire at indoor distances of 50 ft. and outdoor slow @ 50 yards and timed & rapid fire @ 25 yards. All shooting was done one-handed/unsupported.

It was not unusual to find 50 yard groups where several shots touched each other with the others close by. At 25 yards timed fire 5-shot groups where all of the shots touched were common, and a fair amount of rapid fire groups were the same.

The problem today is that the perception of combat (target) shooting has all but eliminated serious training and practice in basic marksmanship - which should be learned first before any other kind of shooting is gone into.

If you really want to learn how to shoot, join a bullseye target club, and then go on from there. Also if you visit any major bullseye tournment you'll see some targets that will leave you breathless...

You will also see some with shots all over the paper - but we all have to start somewhere.

 

[MrBorland]

I have come to these conclusions based on what I see at the range where I shoot. Many of the people are doing well to just hit the target every time at 7 yards. Accuracy goes way down at 10 and 15 yards and is next to non-existant at 25 yards.

I tend to agree, but I also don't see them seriously working on marksmanship, either. Those that do can make some very impressive groups at 25yds. Last time I was at the range, I finished my session by quickly evaluating 2 brands of .22LR through my 4" S&W 617 revolver (25 rounds per brand). Off the top of my head, at 25 yards the 3 groups I shot (shot standing, 2-handed, unsupported, double action, with stock iron sights) with its preferred ammo were as follows:

Group 1 = 10 rounds @2.75"
Group 2 = 10 rounds @ 1.75"
Group 3 = 5 rounds @ 1.44"
Average = 1.98"

I don't claim to be able to shoot 2" groups "all day", but 3" is do-able. When actually practiced, you can achieve better marksmanship than you'd see any typical day at the range.

 

[deercop]

My state LE agency consists of quite a few pretty good shots. Last year I won our statewide handgun competition, which consisted of both combat and bullseye courses (I won BOTH courses).

However, compared to quite of few of the keyboard commandos, I'm a horrible shot. So there's really no doubt in my mind that there's a LOT of BS floating around.

 

[PRM]

Shooters

Deleted

 

[rantingredneck]

I can typically chew a ragged hole in a target from 7-10 yds and usually print 2" or better out to 15. At 25 I'm more of a 4" or so shooter depending on which gun I'm shooting.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I read quite a few posts where folks claim that they can shoot 2" groups or better at 25 yards all day long unsupported. I also read posts that say the handgun is plenty accurate at 50 yards if you do your part. The only problem with that is I don't think there are that many people out there that can "do their part"..

Nope, I can't shoot 2 inches at 25 yards any more. I could at one time but age has caught up to me.

I do like to shoot small defense type pistols at 50+ yards though (home range).
I've got a 2 foot square piece of steel plate that I plink at a lot (standing, one and two hands).


Recently shot it with a 2 inch 38 S&W J Frame and Makarov (no misses).


Shot the plate a couple days ago with a Kimber Ultra Covert II (no misses) (may shoot it this afternoon ).
The Covert sights happen to be perfect for 50 yards.
.

I do like to shoot up close to, 10-15 yards and some 7 and 25 yards.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Yeah... I can generally hold about 2" at 10m if I'm firing slowly and deliberately. Not much better than that, though. I can make consistent, reliable headshots at 15m... I suppose where I'd like to be in my shooting is at the point where I can make consistent headshots at 25m... anything tighter than that, and I think I should probably be focusing more on my speed.

I don't get hung up with accuracy beyond a purpose. I want to be able to hit that mythical 4MOA accuracy with a rifle prone, so I print 1" targets and shoot them at 25m. Honestly I don't care if the shots are in the middle, top or bottom of the target - a hit is a hit to me.

With handguns, I want to keep my shots in the vital zone - I use the TX DPS target I qualified for my TX CHL on years ago, which I like for its simplicity and that it encourages you to aim a little higher in the torso. If my defensive drills are all within that "A" zone, that's all I care about. Although I like tight little groups like everybody else, for handgunnery, I think pure accuracy should be balanced against speed.

Now with my .22lr S&W 22A, I can consistently hold a 1" group at 10m, as long as I'm really focusing on the fundamentals... but that's .22lr

 

[Steve C]

I know a couple bullseye shooters that can put 20 rounds of .22 LR in a 1" or smaller group, slow fire using a single handed unsupported hold, with iron sights at 25 yds, maybe 2" in timed and rapid fire, and do it consistently. I know this because I've scored their targets. I can't do it, don't have the youth, desire or the physical abilities and never spent enough time to develop my skills to this level.

With a standard "non-target" center fire handgun they'll still have 3" or smaller groups when we shoot on our "any gun" fun shoots or Police L matches.