If you were an employer, and wanted to codify a workplace ccw policy ...

[30 cal slob]

Not sure if this has been talked about to death yet ...

but i was thinking ...

an employer who respects your RKBA could:

1) require that all handguns be carried CONCEALED

2) require that all handguns be ON THE EMPLOYEE'S PERSON AT ALL TIMES (not in purse or bag, etc) or otherwise locked up in car.

3) require that employees carry their semis in condition 3 (no round in the chamber but loaded mag ok) and revolvers with hammer down on empty cylinder.

4) employee furnishes buckets of sand or other ballistic backstop in a safe area for employees to unload prior to entering the office and cock'nlock after leaving the office.

or something like that.

Rationale:

1) Don't alarm the other employees who aren't armed

2) Minimize risk of theft or loss of guns on company property

3) Manage risk of ND, particularly as one might be point the muzzle of one's gun in a direction one wouldn't want to (depending on how the weapon is holstered etc).

4) self-explanatory.

I know I might be daydreaming, but if I were running a company this would at least be an unofficial policy (insurance co. be damned).

 

[S.P.E.C.T.R.E.]

I would say 1-3 seem ok, but #4 assumes people taking out their guns and farting around with them. That's a bad idea.

 

[Steelslinger]

I agree with Rules 1 and 2. But 3 and 4, I completely disagree with.

First, as for myself, I would not carry a firearm for SD with an empty chamber. Ever. If you have a gun that is in proper repair and condition, AD should not be a problem. Add to that, you should not be monkeying with your firearm and all holsters should fully cover the trigger and trigger guard, so that would eliminate ND's. When it comes to the pointing in a safe direction while holstered, well you can do what one of my dispatching jobs did, ban shoulder holsters.

Personally, I think the clearing barrel/can/whatever is also a bad idea. One, with rule 1 you state that you don't want the non-ccw people seeing and getting nervous about the presence of firearms, yet now you have people openly handling their firearms. Which leads to the second reason, you now have people openly handling their firearms which then raises the risk of a ND. Again referencing the dispatching/security job, every night I would check the clearing barrel we had. When I started, there were 9 holes in it, when I left after two years, there were 15 holes in it. Not to mention, that that would be something you the employer would have to implement (the clearing barrel) as there should only be one and would need to be maintained, monitored, and located in a safe secure location, just in case.

 

[30 cal slob]

okay, scratch #4.

but my company would have mysterious buckets of sand placed in strategic places. ashtrays. for the virtual smokers.

 

[Johannes_Paulsen]

Do you want to allow the car lockup? Just playing devil's advocate here...anything in the car is a hammer-blow away from belonging to someone else.

 

[romma]

Don't ask, don't tell. Our companies "apparent" policy.

 

[30 cal slob]

i don't have a fundamental problem with car lockup, especially during hunting season.

 

[shooter503]

My technician and I worked like crazy on an installation for two days recently. He did a great job, was totally invaluable. I think I will buy him a pistol as a bonus.

And I expect him to bring it to work so we can go and hit the range.

It's great owning the company.

 

[Euclidean]

require that employees carry their semis in condition 3 (no round in the chamber but loaded mag ok) and revolvers with hammer down on empty cylinder.

If you carry your gun this way you might as well not carry it at all.

I think "don't ask don't tell" gets my vote in the real world.

 

[30 cal slob]

If you carry your gun this way you might as well not carry it at all.

 

[ED21]

What would your insurance say? Could be a big factor. Don't ask, don't tell. Concealed is concealed.

 

[Euclidean]

To each his own, but at real world self defense distances I personally would rather not have another step between me and "bang". I recall an article some years ago about a young couple. The man was carrying Israeli style and when he realized that the muggers were on him, he was afraid to draw it because he realize he'd never be able to get it into action in time. Luckily neither of them were hurt that time, just robbed.

I feel my employer would have no business telling me I have to carry in such a manner when I feel it's counterproductive and useless. I feel my training, familiarity, and experience with firearms is a far better safety precaution than such a policy. Someone who runs into the place looking to shoot it up and kill people isn't going to have their gun in condition 3, why should I?

 

[SuperNaut]

3) require that employees carry their semis in condition 3 (no round in the chamber but loaded mag ok) and revolvers with hammer down on empty cylinder.

This sounds unnecessarily dangerous to me. For those that carry C&L (most everyone) this would require them to drop the mag, cycle the slide, and dry fire/lower the hammer before entering premises.

That's just rollin' the dice if ya axe me.

 

[rantingredneck]

I'm with a bunch of the others. I'd leave 3 and 4 out. I'd keep to concealed is concealed and don't ask don't tell.

Probably also want a statement to the effect of "must be in compliance with all applicable local, state laws....." Depending on your profession your employees may work offsite at other locations. You would want some statement that covers you if they carry illegally offsite (i.e. if your company does HVAC work and one of the contracts is at a school or bar or something)

 

[tank mechanic]

hey shooter503,

Are you hiring?

I think I will buy him a pistol as a bonus.

You are the coolest boss I have ever heard of.

 

[Amish_Bill]

I'd like to open up with this single observation.

The One Consistent Factor in any AD/ND?
The firearm was being handled instead of being left safely holstered.
It's patently impossible for someone to have an ND if they have not removed the firearm - even slightly - from a good quality holster. Any "safety" policy that mandates the single biggest pre-requisite for an ND is inherently flawed.

Now, on to my take on your ideas...

1) require that all guns be carried CONCEALED on their persons or secured in their vehicles at all times.

2) now redundant.

3) overkill.

4) see opening note. Handling of firearms on company property verbotten.

5) Anyone desiring to carry concealed on company property or while on company time is required to have a valid carry permit. (assuming you're in a reasonable state)
-- You may want to enhance this by requiring a third party safety course.

Those are just my kneejerk thoughts.

 

[Noxx]

My technician and I worked like crazy on an installation for two days recently. He did a great job, was totally invaluable. I think I will buy him a pistol as a bonus.

Man I should have apprenticed for that guy.

 

[30 cal slob]

consider this not so hypothetical situation:

i'm wearing thunderwear. pistol with round in the chamber.

i'm sitting down. barrel of loaded pistol is now parallel to the ground.

i settle into my chair. without paying too much attention, muzzle of said pistol is pointing straight at the offce next door, where you happen to be sitting.

muzzle of my loaded (but safely holstered in my glock strap) gun is pointed right at YOU.

would you have a problem with this?

i would.

i can see the objection to condition 3 carrying if you were carrying IWB etc where you are going to have muzzle control. but i find IWB carry impractical and uncomfortable during the warm weather months. wearing a vest is not an option in July or August.

you are in your office, a place that is on average, reasonably safer than a dark street in a seedy neighborhood.

if something goes terribly wrong at the office, will the extra 3 seconds it takes to pull back the slide and charge your weapon really hinder you?

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I wouldn't codify any policy at all--just trouble for all concerned.

 

[Richmond]

Cool Boss

You are the coolest boss I have ever heard of.

One of my advanced martial arts students works in my office as one of my assistants. I train him in shooting as well as other arts, and he has his CCW. I "issued" him a compact 9mm XD until we could find a carry pistol for him. I just got a S&W 640 for him. Actually, he will pay for it with deductions from his salary.

Am I a cool boss, too?

Actually, this is a good discussion as I encourage more folks here to get permits. Currently, we carry concealed until you get to the back office where my administrative assistant is - from there on back we may have jackets off. If we leave a weapon in the office, we have a locking cash drawer in my office that doubles as a firearms locker.

 

[BedPimp]

What about getting armed security certification for any employee who wanted to carry at work? Make them part of a security/disaster preparedness committee. This should help manage the insurance and liability issues that might come up.

 

[SuperNaut]

consider this not so hypothetical situation:

i'm wearing thunderwear. pistol with round in the chamber.

i'm sitting down. barrel of loaded pistol is now parallel to the ground.

i settle into my chair. without paying too much attention, muzzle of said pistol is pointing straight at the offce next door, where you happen to be sitting.

muzzle of my loaded (but safely holstered in my glock strap) gun is pointed right at YOU.

would you have a problem with this?

The odds of a gun discharging by itself while in a holster are so vanishingly minuscule as to be non-existent. So no, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The problems arise when people start dicking around with their guns out of the holster.

 

[Steelslinger]

if something goes terribly wrong at the office, will the extra 3 seconds it takes to pull back the slide and charge your weapon really hinder you?

The problem is when you have not trained in this manner. When under high stress, you will not think clearly and remember that "hey, I'm at work and don't have a round chambered", you will simply pull the pistol out and pull the trigger, CLICK. So, unless you train and always carry in Condition 3, it could possibly take longer than 3 seconds to be ready, and by then it may be too late.

Train the way you carry, and carry the way you train.

 

[Amish_Bill]

consider this not so hypothetical situation:

i'm wearing thunderwear. pistol with round in the chamber.

i'm sitting down. barrel of loaded pistol is now parallel to the ground.

i settle into my chair. without paying too much attention, muzzle of said pistol is pointing straight at the offce next door, where you happen to be sitting.

muzzle of my loaded (but safely holstered in my glock strap) gun is pointed right at YOU.

would you have a problem with this?

Unless you've somehow gotten your wee-winky jammed into the trigger guard right before the pretty secretary comes in, I'm failing to see a problem. Without something to disable the safety and/or something else to pull the trigger, your holstered gun is about as dangerous as a rock.

 

[Gordon Fink]

If you need to codify it, which you almost certainly don’t, simply refer your employees to any applicable laws.

~G. Fink