Interesting comment at the local gun store today

[tomrkba]

I believe the advice given was not very good; at least it was incomplete (which is worse). First, he suggested a revolver. While this is a fine choice in and of itself, the odds are she will buy a snub nosed revolver. THR knows that the snubby revolver is a difficult gun to master. Furthermore, I suspect that the lady will buy the lightest snub nosed revolver around, which is one of the Air Lite S&W J-Frame models. Do you see where I am going with this? She's going to fire five rounds of 38 Special +P (because a gun store guy told her to buy +P because "it's more effective") and all five rounds are going to be painful. She is then going to look at her target, see very few hits and wonder why she bought "the thing" in the first place.

Is it any wonder why so many women get turned off of handgun shooting?


Here is what you should have said (paraphrased):

1) Handgun shooting, especially for defense involves quite a few skills.
2) Learning to shoot a handgun for defense requires a certain type of gun. Such guns need to fully fill the hand, have a longer barrel (usually in the 4-5" range), have clear sights, and a good trigger.
3) Any service grade handgun will do the job. The first gun should be no smaller than a Glock 19 or an S&W K-Frame in 38 Special with three or four barrel.
4) Learning to run the gun is essential. This requires training, either through a series of one hour lessons at the range or a formal two to four day defensive handgun class.
5) Running a revolver is more difficult than running a semi-automatic. The basic manual of arms of the revolver is more simple, but the double action trigger pull of the modern revolver can be difficult to manage--especially if a lady's hand strength is not up to the task! Again, proper instruction in the skills needed for self-defense, from the beginning, is essential.
6) A gun need not be bought immediately. Instruction should be acquired first. Many instructors will have many handguns available for her to test.
7) Give the lady the cards of several local instructors. Walk her over to the gun store clerk. Explain the situation to the clerk to get them involved. They may have the name of a trainer they like or an in-house person who works at their range.

 

[Sam1911]

Where did it say he encouraged her to wait?

In post 11 he mentioned, "...As she left I said, take a gun safety class before she decides upon any gun," which could be taken to mean she left without buying anything.

Whether or not she would have without his advice, I don't know, and doesn't really matter.

You asked why an owner might not want a customer standing around giving advice. The fact that someone's advice might kill a sale would be one reason.

 

[Skribs]

Ah, Sam, I missed that.

I do agree with Tom. My Mom's first gun was a revolver, and she realized she had better results with the Sig P238. Not that hard to take down (and easier to clean the barrel), it's soft-shooting for a .380 pocket pistol, and she had a lot faster follow-up shots than with a revolver (DA was pretty much a no-go for her).

 

[tomrkba]

Addendum:

8) Shooting is FUN! This is our secret weapon and it should be exploited at every opportunity.

 

[aeriedad]

I believe the advice given was not very good; at least it was incomplete (which is worse). First, he suggested a revolver. While this is a fine choice in and of itself, the odds are she will buy a snub nosed revolver. THR knows that the snubby revolver is a difficult gun to master. Furthermore, I suspect that the lady will buy the lightest snub nosed revolver around, which is one of the Air Lite S&W J-Frame models. Do you see where I am going with this? She's going to fire five rounds of 38 Special +P (because a gun store guy told her to buy +P because "it's more effective") and all five rounds are going to be painful. She is then going to look at her target, see very few hits and wonder why she bought "the thing" in the first place.

Is it any wonder why so many women get turned off of handgun shooting?


Here is what you should have said (paraphrased):

1) Handgun shooting, especially for defense involves quite a few skills.
2) Learning to shoot a handgun for defense requires a certain type of gun. Such guns need to fully fill the hand, have a longer barrel (usually in the 4-5" range), have clear sights, and a good trigger.
3) Any service grade handgun will do the job. The first gun should be no smaller than a Glock 19 or an S&W K-Frame in 38 Special with three or four barrel.
4) Learning to run the gun is essential. This requires training, either through a series of one hour lessons at the range or a formal two to four day defensive handgun class.
5) Running a revolver is more difficult than running a semi-automatic. The basic manual of arms of the revolver is more simple, but the double action trigger pull of the modern revolver can be difficult to manage--especially if a lady's hand strength is not up to the task! Again, proper instruction in the skills needed for self-defense, from the beginning, is essential.
6) A gun need not be bought immediately. Instruction should be acquired first. Many instructors will have many handguns available for her to test.
7) Give the lady the cards of several local instructors. Walk her over to the gun store clerk. Explain the situation to the clerk to get them involved. They may have the name of a trainer they like or an in-house person who works at their range.

Addendum:

8) Shooting is FUN! This is our secret weapon and it should be exploited at every opportunity.

Really? All eight points, paraphrased, in an impromtu discussion between customers in a gun store, right in front of the sales clerk or store owner?

The OP wondered whether the shop owner's response was reasonable in his recent experience. I wonder whether any clerk--much less the shop owner--would let you get to point number three in your list.

 

[TenDriver]

If I was a shop owner, I'd like to think I'd give much the same kinds of advice you did. But, in MY shop, I'D want to be the one talking up the customers and giving the advice.

Somehow I don't think this is the kind of place I'd want to shop, although I don't disagree with your rationale.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Just remember that this is the shop owners place of business--how they feed their family. Yes they should give good advice and listen to the customer, being sensitive to their questions, needs and concerns. Be aware that your opinion (no matter how sage and wise it might be) is usually not welcome. The saleperson/owner needs to be in charge of the sales process, and losing control of the conversation usually results in a lost sale. I have been on both sides of the counter, and have heard some atrocious recommendations from both other customers and sales people. Your best bet if you hear a salesperson seriously misleading a customer is to speak to their manager or the owner. Don't butt in. The dude on the other side of the counter doesn't know you, the responsible, knowledgable gun owner, from some internet commando hack.

 

[tomrkba]

Really? All eight points, paraphrased, in an impromtu discussion between customers in a gun store, right in front of the sales clerk or store owner?

This assumes you're not interrupting a transaction or conversation; don't do that. Doing so depends upon how lost the person looks or sounds, whether or not they're getting assistance, how busy the store is, etc. Another technique is to start the conversation, include the gun store clerk in the middle and let them finish it.

The conversation must be inclusive of the gun store. You're not discouraging anything and some sort of business is going to go to the store. Additionally, it almost guarantees a second purchase in that the new shooter will have a service sized handgun and will likely come back for a smaller pistol later. Even better, if the shop has a gun range, then you're encouraging them to buy range time with instruction and asking the clerk for a list of trainers.

 

[bergmen]

I'll relate a similar experience of mine although conducted a little differently.

A former co-worker contacted me with interest in purchasing her first defensive handgun (this would be for home defense, very difficult to get CCW in her county).

Long story short, I invited her up to my house for a session on handguns that took several hours. We went from there to the range so she could shoot several types and decide what worked for her (we shot Glock G19, S&W 15-4, S&W Airweight, Ruger GP100 with .38 Special +P). She settled on the GP100, really liked it. She also liked the idea of being able to move up to .357 Magnum at some point although they were a bit stout for her now.

A few weeks later I get a call from her and she had found a used GP100 at a local gun store. I arranged to meet her there and when we arrived I informed the owner that I was advising Rita on a potential purchase. He handed me the revolver and deferred completely to me to run the show. I inspected the gun showing Rita what I was looking for and advised her that this was indeed a good buy. She took over, filled out the paperwork and we all left the shop in good spirits.

I had made a few purchases there in the past but I was not a "regular". They may have recognized that I knew a little bit but I would not have been surprised if they didn't recognize me.

Some gun shop owners do things differently.

Dan

 

[SSN Vet]

Perhaps the store owner would like the opportunity to advise the customers who visit his store himself.... seems kind of reasonable to me....

I think his comment was a polite way of saying he didn't appreciate what you were doing.

 

[CDR_Glock]

When she saw the 1911s I said they're nice but the require more maintenance. She said she wanted easier to take care of. She was likely just a casual browser with no intention or money to buy one. I just hate when people pick a "pretty gun" without much forethought.

Thanks, everyone.

 

[C0untZer0]

Did she actually ask you for your advice?

I went in to pick up a 9mm once and some guy in the shop felt it his duty to blurt out "Get a .45 - it's got knockdown power."

OK, whatever...

 

[ScottieG59]

I sometimes give people advice if they ask for it, but I am careful to stay within my role as a guest in someone else's business.

I agree that someone who sells things will have an incentive to sell the biggest moneymaker. The worker in earning a living and is there to do so. If you interfere, you may have useful knowledge about the product, but you are interfering with a business transaction.

Think about it in your workplace.

Often, we so much want to help people, we give the good, but unwelcome advice.

I have seen many new shooters look at a gun that will not serve their objectives. If it is a woman I find attractive, maybe I would want to share my share my great knowledge in whatever she desires. Let's not pretend my desires are in line with her desires.

 

[russ69]

I'm a big blabber mouth, I just can't help it. When I'm in a gun shop, I might say something to another customer, if I particularly like the firearm being looked at. If it's a gun I'm not to keen about, I won't say a word, I MMOB. But I am enthusiastic and I will tell a customer that I really like his selection. Same for the salesman.

 

[gspn]

There's a reason he runs a gun store and not a law office.

I agree with whoever said it was his way of saying "shaddup kid".

 

[CDR_Glock]

Did she actually ask you for your advice?

I went in to pick up a 9mm once and some guy in the shop felt it his duty to blurt out "Get a .45 - it's got knockdown power."

OK, whatever...

She was like, Oh! Look at that cute pink gun. I'd like that!

It was in reference to a Diamondback DB380. I said, Do some research for yourself before you consider that type of gun.

She may have been just joking around but I take all guns seriously. If there is one less uninformed person in this world, I did my job.

--

I was at another store in Jacksonville Fl. This guy wanted the cheapest gun he could find. I asked what he planned to do with it. I talked him into a Glock or an XD instead. I also told him to choose a gun with the holster to make sure it was something that he would be motivated to carry. That gun salesman was very happy that day.

--

 

[moewadle]

Let the business owner and/or employees

do the talking and advising. You, as a customer or whatever, are interfering with the legitimate owner's business. It is not for you to be acting in the role you took on. You should have done the right thing and polite thing and kept your mouth shut. Period. End of story.

 

[Lost Sheep]

do the talking and advising. You, as a customer or whatever, are interfering with the legitimate owner's business. It is not for you to be acting in the role you took on. You should have done the right thing and polite thing and kept your mouth shut. Period. End of story.

Well, there are always multiple sides to any story.

Politely keeping one's mouth shut or being helpful to educating a potential gun owner. You were there. None of us were.

Always be polite, though. Even if someone is rude. Be polite.

Lost Sheep

 

[drsfmd]

A few weeks later I get a call from her and she had found a used GP100 at a local gun store. I arranged to meet her there and when we arrived I informed the owner that I was advising Rita on a potential purchase. He handed me the revolver and deferred completely to me to run the show. I inspected the gun showing Rita what I was looking for and advised her that this was indeed a good buy. She took over, filled out the paperwork and we all left the shop in good spirits.

I had made a few purchases there in the past but I was not a "regular". They may have recognized that I knew a little bit but I would not have been surprised if they didn't recognize me.

Some gun shop owners do things differently.

That's a lot different than random-stranger-interjects-himself-in-a-conversation-he-had-no-business-in-and-wasn't-wanted. In the OP's story, as a shop employee I'd be pretty peeved. I'm not looking to make a sale for the sake of a sale... I'm looking to give good advice and build a customer base that will come back. Random guy interrupting and interjecting doesn't help. He probably would be invited to shop elsewhere.

 

[Auf Grosser Fahrt]

Funny, Countzero! Yeah, a .45 is just like .50 BMG. And a 9mm is just like a .22 Short.

 

[mnrivrat]

Let the advise and comments regarding products be done between the customer and the business sales staff.

I don't hang around your restraunt telling folks what they should order off the menu, nor do I butt in when someone is ordering and tell them they can get that burger across the street for 50 cents less .

Practicaly nobody does that, so I see no reason to accept that same type behavior in a gunstore. If you are not part of the transaction - butt out !

 

[CDR_Glock]

Let the advise and comments regarding products be done between the customer and the business sales staff.

I don't hang around your restraunt telling folks what they should order off the menu, nor do I butt in when someone is ordering and tell them they can get that burger across the street for 50 cents less .

Practicaly nobody does that, so I see no reason to accept that same type behavior in a gunstore. If you are not part of the transaction - butt out !

Good points. Keeping opinions to self.

 

[doc2rn]

I would do like I did last weekend and take the woman over to the range side and let her try my selection of handguns. It never fails how many want my S&W mod 10s! Even after shooting an FNP and a 1911! They love the Model 10s with a Fobus grip!

 

[Ala Dan]

Your advice was right on TARGET; and I'm quite sure well taken. The gun shop
"hand" needs to educate himself/herself, and stay out of other's conversations;
unless their opinion is asked for~!!!!!!!

 

[skeeziks]

Look...whenever I observe a sales clerk/shop owner giving bum advice to a customer I always try to steer the customer in the right direction. But I never do it within earshot of the clerk.
I just use common sense....