Interesting "No Weapons" sign in Tucson

[Vern Humphrey]

And be sure to tell them you won't be spending any of your money there.

Absolutely. And get all your friends to do the same.

 

[Poper]

Do you know anything about Chandler?

Why do you ask?

 

[danez71]

Danex71, thanks for pointing that out. I did not realize the link was for alcohol establishments only. Also, even if I did, would have assumed consistency across signage would be required.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by jimeast View Post
Googled this.

http://www.azleg.gov/ars/4/00229.htm

That law only applies to places that serve alcohol. All Title 4 laws are related to alcohol.


Title 12 Chapter 31 have to do with weapons and explosives"

No problem. That's why I pointed that out... because its not consistent.


I've personally run into this general issue many times in AZ.

For example, at the Scotsdale Fasion Mall, I never saw a single 'No Guns' sign of any kind at any of the entrances along the North side of the mall whether or not the entrance was a mall entrance or an individual store entrance. The main entrance on the east side did though.

The Rainforest Café did not have any no gun signs at all.

The Kona Grill right across it did have the correct sign but not posted correctly at the entrance from inside the mall. They had it on the inside door and was blocked by the hostess's podium and nothing posted by the liquor license.

However, if you entered from the patio, there wasn't any signs.

I learned all that as I was there for about 5 days for my daughters high school swimming state finals. (I lived about 150 miles from Scotsdale in AZ)
The 1st time I ate there I went in thru the front. The doors were open and the hostesses podium blocked the sign but I didn't know it. The 2nd time I went in thru the patio entrance - no sign. The 3rd time I went there for lunch and the front door was closed and there wasn't a hostess. When we left, that when I saw the correct sign on the inside of the door. I went . Then walked over to the patio entrance and still no sign.

We ate at the Rainforest café the resent of the time.


1 time I went into my bank. No guns signs as usual... until once when I got to the teller lady and scribbled on (similar to) a 3x5 index card was 'No Guns'.

Another time, there was 'no guns' scribbled on a scrap piece of card board hidden behind a newspaper stand next to the entrance.

They both disappeared pretty quick...I think both of those times were the result of a snow bird complaining.

 

[Librarian]

Just getting into AZ statutes, out of curiosity.

13-3108 is state pre-emption against lower political subdivisions.

But I seem not to know what terms to search for to find the business/private property 'signs have force of law'; might someone share that info, please?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...But I seem not to know what terms to search for to find the business/private property 'signs have force of law'; might someone share that info, please?

If we're still in Arizona, it's the criminal trespass law. I addressed that here:

...in Arizona signs don't carry force of law.

Wrong. Arizona "no guns" signs do carry the force of law. See handgunlaw.us/Arizona (page 8, at the bottom of the page).

And I addressed the question here:

...I notice that no one has cited the actual Arizona criminal trespass statute, ARS 13-1502 (emphasis added):

13-1502. Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:

1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry.

2. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on the right-of-way for tracks, or the storage or switching yards or rolling stock of a railroad company.​

B. Criminal trespass in the third degree is a class 3 misdemeanor.​

Notice that it is criminal trespass in Arizona not only when one stays after being asked to leave. It is also criminal trespass to enter if one is on notice that entry is prohibited.

The question therefore becomes whether a "no guns" sign on private property is reasonable notice prohibiting entry by one carrying a gun. If an Arizona court would say, or has said, that it is, a "no guns" sign indeed has the force of law.

Certainly on the face of things it looks like a "no gun" sign could well be considered reasonable notice that entry to the premises with a gun is prohibited.

WardenWolf, if you still contend that a "no guns" sign doesn't have the force of law in Arizona, cite an Arizona court decision so ruling.

 

[Librarian]

Thank you, Frank.

Certainly on the face of things it looks like a "no gun" sign could well be considered reasonable notice that entry to the premises with a gun is prohibited.

seems good enough; it isn't that 'no guns' in some form is particularly called out in AZ statute, it's 'anyone may restrict entry and give notice for/against anything'.

I can see arguments about whether a particular sign might be considered to be sufficient notice, but not something I want to worry about. If a place doesn't want my money or presence, I'll go along with their wishes.

Another case where just reading obvious statutes won't get me where I want to go.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Why do you ask?

Because I'm considering moving to Arizona and for several personal reasons Chandler looks attractive.

 

[Red Wind]

Look also at Springerville and Show Low.mid level elevation, heat factor minimalized, very gun friendly territory and fine people. New Mexico is steps away.

 

[Elkins45]

I am not aware of a law prohibiting carry at the DMV in Michigan. Can you link it?

Here that would not be illegal, and in my prior state of IN that would also not be illegal.

The government isn't really a business anyway. Their bottom line and continued existence kind of make that point

No I can't, and now that I think about it there isn't a restriction here. We don't have a DMV here: DL renewals are done with the Circuit Court Clerk, who is usually in the courthouse. Courthouse carry is legal here unless in a LE office or an actual courtroom.

That's what I get for trying to be cute...

 

[MICHAEL T]

You all know many people in America carried. Before the mad dash for money making permits by states.
The best part was never any no guns signs ,and no body thought about people packing .
We went to bars, movies ,shopping, and every one enjoyed life. No public panic of blood in streets crap . Every body just went on with life.
We as gun owners have created this no guns policy . By creating a law that says we can carry. Were are own worst enemy .

 

[Warp]

You all know many people in America carried. Before the mad dash for money making permits by states.
The best part was never any no guns signs ,and no body thought about people packing .
We went to bars, movies ,shopping, and every one enjoyed life. No public panic of blood in streets crap . Every body just went on with life.
We as gun owners have created this no guns policy . By creating a law that says we can carry. Were are own worst enemy .

The no guns "gun free zones" were created by the people who didn't want any law abiding folks carrying, so when the states when to shall issue, they shoved a bunch of asinine off limits places in as a compromise.

"We" only created no guns policies by wanting to LEGALLY carry guns, vs breaking the law and not caring about breaking the law

And of course the antis that went around after some states passed shall issue laws, telling businesses they had to post the signage against allowing carriers or else possibly be held liable

 

[old lady new shooter]

"We" only created no guns policies by wanting to LEGALLY carry guns, vs breaking the law and not caring about breaking the law

What happens to people who carry without a permit? Is it the same in every state?

 

[Warp]

What happens to people who carry without a permit? Is it the same in every state?

State laws vary.

In 10 states a non-prohibited person that is of age does not need a permit to carry concealed. In even more states than that said person may carry openly without a license.

In states that require a license for a particular mode of carry, carrying without that license does of course carry various penalties that vary by state and sometimes specific location within the state.

 

[pittpa]

That must make it difficult to renew your drivers license or mail a package. But in general I agree with your point.

Once people here figured out the signs don't carry the force of law they have largely gon away from everywhere except for a couple of theatres.

Look for a "contract" postal center in an office park or office building. I have one down the street. I've not been in a post office in quite a while.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Warp]

Look for a "contract" postal center in an office park or office building. I have one down the street. I've not been in a post office in quite a while.

You can also ship a package with somebody like UPS or FedEx or DHL, or you can print your USPS label off at home and have it picked up, or drop it off in a drop-box without going to/into a post office.

 

[danez71]

What happens to people who carry without a permit? Is it the same in every state?

As Warp pointed out, it varies from state to state.


Just as an FYI, (I'm over simplifying here) in AZ, you dont need a permit to carry concealed in most places.

However, you do need one if you want to carry in a place that serves alcohol. There is a few other benefits of an AZ permit too

 

[old lady new shooter]

Look also at Springerville and Show Low.mid level elevation, heat factor minimalized, very gun friendly territory and fine people. New Mexico is steps away.

Thanks.