is .357 the new 9mm?

[Mr_Flintstone]

if I was a cop, or military, or in a combat roll. I would take a 147g 9mm with Hydro Shock doing 1100fps with a Glock 17 MOS with SRO RMR over a revolver all day!

Maybe, but by the time you say that, the bad guy will have the jump on you.

Seriously though, I think we are seeing a slight resurgence in the popularity of revolvers because they are less intimidating to some newer shooters. People tend to look at revolvers as the "old faithful" firearm that has been used since cowboy days. Now, granted revolvers have their own set of issues, but they present the aire of simplicity and safety. They also seem to be more socially acceptable since the mass shooter crazies rarely use (or are rarely reported to use) revolvers.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Careful with Lil gun- Forcing cone and barrel issue can happen- I Believe John Lineboughe Wrote about that.

back on course!

38 & 357 is very versatile and FUN!

I’m going to see how hard I can push 125g very HC lube bullet with Lil-gun!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

military, or in a combat roll.... Hydro Shock

And for that choice you would be court-martialed by your own side and legally executed by the other. If you're in any kind of uniform, hollow points in combat are a war crime.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Maybe, but by the time you say that, the bad guy will have the jump on you.

Seriously though, I think we are seeing a slight resurgence in the popularity of revolvers because they are less intimidating to some newer shooters. People tend to look at revolvers as the "old faithful" firearm that has been used since cowboy days. Now, granted revolvers have their own set of issues, but they present the aire of simplicity and safety. They also seem to be more socially acceptable since the mass shooter crazies rarely use (or are rarely reported to use) revolvers.

it’s a HUGE resurgence! all my former Tactical Cool Mall Ninja buddies have filled their AR - Gen 3 Glock itch and now are looking hard at Quality .357 . it’s a good think fir the reloading community, because 357 is $1 shot and reloading it cost the same as reloading 9mm

 

[Mark_Mark]

And for that choice you would be court-martialed by your own side and legally executed by the other. If you're in any kind of uniform, hollow points in combat are a war crime.

nothing gets by you! lol

 

[Docendo Discimus]

sometimes you just want to have fun with a wheel gun

Or a lever gun. The .357 rifle is always a favorite when plinking with the kids. It doesn't get much better than a starting charge of HP-38 and a 158gr lead bullet vs a steel gong. Low blast, low recoil, huge smiles.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Or a lever gun. The .357 rifle is always a favorite when plinking with the kids. It doesn't get much better than a starting charge of HP-38 and a 158gr lead bullet vs a steel gong. Low blast, low recoil, huge smiles.

oooh yeah! I got a 24” 1873 that I’m start to load light 38 special with 9mm bullets. I learned that round nose don’t feed well in lever action

 

[.308 Norma]

All of that Should Tell Us something about the History of both Cartridges.

All of that IS part of the "History" of both Cartridges. So?
I still like both the .357 and the 9mm for just shooting, but I like the like the .357 more for backwoods carry, and the 9mm more for EDC.
By the way, back in my wife's and my IHMSA days, a lot of silhouette shooters (including my wife for a while) used .357s. Yet I can't remember a single competitor in any of the dozens upon dozens of matches we attended ever using a 9mm. That would have been silly.
I'm firmly in the "both cartridges have their place(s)" category.

 

[EricBu]

Hey bud, this thread may have started out as 357's new popularity, but thread drift has turned it into opinions posted about 9mm, vs 38 Special, vs 357 Magnum, a subject I can remember since I started looking at reloading forrums in 2006...

Lol..........a subject I can remember hanging out in gunshops and hardware stores as a kid, the MWR shooting club as a soldier in the 80s, Usenet in the 90s, and forums since they were invented.

The only thing that surprises me, is this is the first conversation on the subject since 1986 where the FBI's Miami Massacre wasn't disected and used to argue both sides. When stopping power and slow rate of fire both combine.....the 9mm's were too light for the engagment...and the revolvers were to slow to reload under fire. The final shot IIRC was from a 38 revolver carried as a backup gun by one of the agents. That battle changed the face of LEO armament forever, and is largely why you can't find anybody from the FBI, to SWAT, to Mayberry's 3 man PD.....that doesn't have hi-cap handguns backed up by AR15's and Shotguns.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Lol..........a subject I can remember hanging out in gunshops and hardware stores as a kid, the MWR shooting club as a soldier in the 80s, Usenet in the 90s, and forums since they were invented.

The only thing that surprises me, is this is the first conversation on the subject since 1986 where the FBI's Miami Massacre wasn't disected and used to argue both sides. When stopping power and slow rate of fire both combine.....the 9mm's were too light for the engagment...and the revolvers were to slow to reload under fire. The final shot IIRC was from a 38 revolver carried as a backup gun by one of the agents. That battle changed the face of LEO armament forever, and is largely why you can't find anybody from the FBI, to SWAT, to Mayberry's 3 man PD.....that doesn't have hi-cap handguns backed up by AR15's and Shotguns.

Miami, it was mini-14 vs .357 revolver, one 870, one 9mm Semi with extra mag.

the poor soul Agent with the 9mm empty his 12 shot 9mm and extra mag and got 1 hit. more on that later

all the .357 guys got good hits but were carrying dump pouch, and not speed loaders

the 870 guy was shot in the arm and created the 1 hand pump tactical reload.

why did the 9mm semi auto guy miss? he was also a instructor and for that time a GoFast gun agent…. he loss is heavy glasses in a car crash.

 

[EricBu]

Miami, it was mini-14 vs .357 revolver, one 870, one 9mm Semi with extra mag.

the poor soul Agent with the 9mm empty his 12 shot 9mm and extra mag and got 1 hit. more on that later

all the .357 guys got good hits but were carrying dump pouch, and not speed loaders

the 870 guy was shot in the arm and created the 1 hand pump tactical reload.

why did the 9mm semi auto guy miss? he was also a instructor and for that time a GoFast gun agent…. he loss is heavy glasses in a car crash.

And we're off! LOL

I remember it as like 8 agents, half with 9mm and half with revolvers..a mix of 357 and 38's, with lots of guys carrying backup 38's. I recall it was a sh#tshow out of the gate, with one guy losing his gun in the pitting maneuver...because they hadn't trained taking a 70s era Monte Carlo out with their lighter barney cars and the wreck was more severe than expected, to a guy losing his glasses, to one of the 9mm's suffering a catastrophic failure because it was hit by a round or shrapnel or something. I vaguely remember one of the bad guys at autopsy had a 9mm round lodged in his chest and like a 1/4 gallon of blood in his lungs and supposedly that was what was ruled as his cause of death...and that supposedly happened early in the engagement...but he fought for another 7 minutes or something after taking that hit. The agents had shotguns, but weren't ready to deploy them or slow to deploy. The bad guys were highly motivated former soldiers and had superior firepower and were prepared to use it immediately. The FBI hadn't really engaged in a firefight like that since prohibition and weren't prepared at all.

 

[fxvr5]

And for that choice you would be court-martialed by your own side and legally executed by the other. If you're in any kind of uniform, hollow points in combat are a war crime.

nothing gets by you! lol

The US has not ratified section IV,3 of the 1899 Hague Convention, so the US is not bound to follow it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907

(IV,3): Declaration concerning the Prohibition of the Use of Bullets which can Easily Expand or Change their Form inside the Human Body such as Bullets with a Hard Covering which does not Completely Cover the Core, or containing Indentations
This declaration states that, in any war between signatory powers, the parties will abstain from using "bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body." This directly banned soft-point bullets (which had a partial metal jacket and an exposed tip) and "cross-tipped" bullets (which had a cross-shaped incision in their tip to aid in expansion, nicknamed "Dum Dums" from the Dum Dum Arsenal in India). It was ratified by all major powers, except the United States.[14]

 

[EricBu]

The US has not ratified section IV,3 of the 1899 Hague Convention, so the US is not bound to follow it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907

(IV,3): Declaration concerning the Prohibition of the Use of Bullets which can Easily Expand or Change their Form inside the Human Body such as Bullets with a Hard Covering which does not Completely Cover the Core, or containing Indentations
This declaration states that, in any war between signatory powers, the parties will abstain from using "bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body." This directly banned soft-point bullets (which had a partial metal jacket and an exposed tip) and "cross-tipped" bullets (which had a cross-shaped incision in their tip to aid in expansion, nicknamed "Dum Dums" from the Dum Dum Arsenal in India). It was ratified by all major powers, except the United States.[14]

Nothing in the Hague about hollow points anyway, regardless of ratification. Both the Marines and Army are using SOST OTM bullets in .308, and HPBT in 300 WinMag and .338 LM. Just won't see anything but FMJ for regular troops. Because it's cheap, and always runs.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

9mm vs 357

seems many have a lot to say about this.

If I may ask…. perhaps it will shed some light on the subject.

If you could only have 1 of them… which would it be and what Type of handgun.

I’ll be the first to say- A Revolver, L frame or K frame. Probably a 7 shot 686

 

[Jim Watson]

No, but we publicly announced that we would abide by it because we are the Good Guys.

The British tried to convince the convention that they could keep an inventory of FMJ for combat with civilized signatories and a supply of soft points for more stopping power on savage tribesmen. It didn't fly but they had the last laugh with the Mk VII .303 spitzer, an early "tumbler" design.

The JAG opined that it is OK to use open pointed match bullets in sniper ammunition because the intent was to be able to hit the enemy farther away, not to make him hurt worse.
I don't know what the justification for the new crop of 9mm GI JHP is. Maybe to shoot smugglers and Afghans with, but not Russians.

 

[mcb]

http://knowledgeglue.com/what-are-the-most-popular-calibers-in-the-us/

9mm is the most popular calibers according the the above source, though it is slightly dated data form 2015.

9mm has roughly five time more of the market than 357 Magnum. For that mater 40S&W (dead man walking of cartridges) has almost twice the market share compared to 357 Magnum.

 

[Mark_Mark]

http://knowledgeglue.com/what-are-the-most-popular-calibers-in-the-us/

9mm is the most popular calibers according the the above source, though it is slightly dated data form 2015.

9mm has roughly five time more of the market than 357 Magnum. For that mater 40S&W (dead man walking of cartridges) has almost twice the market share compared to 357 Magnum.

I like .40

 

[mcb]

I like .40

Me too. I own more 40 S&W handguns than any other handgun caliber.

 

[Jim Watson]

I would only shoot .40 if somebody offered to sponsor Team Mediocre with gun and ammo.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Me too. I own more 40 S&W handguns than any other handgun caliber.

.40 is a reloaders caliber! 180g at 1150! yes HOT

 

[fxvr5]

.40 is a reloaders caliber! 180g at 1150! yes HOT

What data is this? Thanks.

 

[mcb]

.40 is a reloaders caliber! 180g at 1150! yes HOT

A 180gr @ 960fps was just fine with me. Shot a lot of USPSA with that load in both and XD-40 and S&W 610.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Not a fan of- Yet Years ago, Many Touted the 41 mag as the Officers Sidearm…. stepping up the game from 357 mag. A 40cal going around 900 fps. Funny how decades later, it’s a very common Law enforcement cartridge.
I for one prefer the 1200fps 40 cal 10mm….
Yet That’s for another Discussion.
I’d take my 7 shot 357 magnum over all of the above.

 

[Boomholzer]

9mm vs 357

seems many have a lot to say about this.

If I may ask…. perhaps it will shed some light on the subject.

If you could only have 1 of them… which would it be and what Type of handgun.

I’ll be the first to say- A Revolver, L frame or K frame. Probably a 7 shot 686

The Model 19 in both brands & flavors
The K frame and the block frame

 

[mcb]

Not a fan of- Yet Years ago, Many Touted the 41 mag as the Officers Sidearm…. stepping up the game from 357 mag. A 40cal going around 900 fps. Funny how decades later, it’s a very common Law enforcement cartridge.
I for one prefer the 1200fps 40 cal 10mm….
Yet That’s for another Discussion.
I’d take my 7 shot 357 magnum over all of the above.

I am doing 200gr 10mm in a revolver at 1250 fps and its far easier on unprotected ears than 357 Magnum loaded to similar energy levels from a similar revolver. 357 Magnum is the worst thing my ears have ever encountered unprotected.