Is 5 or 6 really enough in today's world.

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mcb said:
Random thoughts..

We live in one of the most, if not the most, peaceful modern eras mankind has ever seen.

A 5 or 6 shot revolver has no meaningful advantage over modern semi-autos.
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ehhhhhhhhhh *cringe*

I used to believe that. And it may be true. But after competing a few years with a revolver, I can tell you that an autoloader has at least one advantage over a revolver:reload times. I trained and trained and trained speed loader reloads, both the HKS drop in and twist kinda, and the Safariland drop in and push kind (Comp II). The best I ever got down to was about 8 seconds on the shot timer from last shot, reload, to next shot. (And often times that next shot missed.) I can reload a 92FS in 1-3 seconds with no practice at all.

Of course you can make a valid argument that 5 rounds is enough so reload time is irrelevant. But if you do have to reload, the autoloader wins by miles.

mcb said:
I would take the guy that practice with his J-frame over the guy that thinks his high-cap semi means he doesn't have to.
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Sound wisdom here.
 
As always...

You are extraordinarily unlikely to ever need a gun.

If you are one of the tiny percentage who do, you are extraordinarily unlikely to need to fire a shot.

If you are one of the tiny percentage who do, you are extraordinarily unlikely to need more than a couple of shots.

If you are one of the tiny percentage who do, you are extraordinarily unlikely to need a reload.

That last case - the tiny percentage of the tiny percentage of the tiny percentage of the tiny percentage - is so rare that, even after decades of study, I don't believe I've ever come across an instance of it, at least among law-abiding, non-LEO concealed carriers. That's not to say it can't happen, or even that it hasn't, but rather that it might not be the most important thing you've ever worried about.

Short version: carry what you like, for whatever scenario concerns you. Whatever it is, it's almost guaranteed to be adequate.
 
For quite a while I felt fine carrying a J-frame. Then when the pop-up protests started and the group raids on stores and such I started thinking that 5 rounds was not enough, yet I still wanted the concealability. I then purchased a S&W Shield Plus OS. Conceals like the J-frame but has 10 rounds on board with a 13 round back up mag, or vice versa.
 
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357smallbore said:
To have a ccw and one you carry daily, Is a 5 or 6 shot revolver really enough in today's wacked out criminal world? Or do you really need the double stack autos?
I'm not talking about walking through the ghetto or putting yourself in a bad place that you need to carry your "evil black gun".
But doing your every day routine.
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Evidently not. Currently handguns are judge by 1) How many rounds their magazine or cylinder hold and 2) How quick they can be reloaded.

My son once carried his 1911 with him 24/7, then he started watching some dude on YouTube who says that unless you're carrying a "9" whose magazine holds at least 15 rounds, you're simply doomed in a gunfight. o_O

35W
 
Pat Riot said:
Well so far I have needed Zero rounds on a daily basis for all of my adult life. I figure 5 rounds in my 442 and a couple of speed strips is just fine with me. If I think I need more I have other guns to carry.
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Quoting myself here ^^^^^

Some of you make a very compelling argument for carrying a higher capacity handgun with a faster reload. I cannot disagree and must admit that one of the big reasons for my choice is ease concealment, comfort and portability.
BUT as I was reading it dawned on me that one very important thing must be present for successful self protection. That thing is “confidence”. If one is confident in their abilities and can think and act under pressure then one has a lot better chance in a bad situation. Since I have never been in a situation where I needed to pull a gun and shoot an attacker I really don’t know how well I will do. I have thwarted personal attacks with egress, fists & feet, knives and a shotgun (no shot fired) and I have run people off with the brandishing of a handgun, but I have never been in a shooting scenario and hope to God I never am.

confidence
kŏn′fĭ-dəns
noun
  1. A belief or conviction that an outcome will be favorable.
  2. Belief in the certainty of something.
  3. Belief in the effectiveness of one's own abilities or in one's favorable acceptance by others; self-confidence.
https://www.wordnik.com/words/confidence#

Confidence plays a huge part in any defensive scenario. Doubt can be very detrimental in a Defense scenario.
If I were to encounter an SD situation today and I am carrying my trusty 442 would my first thoughts be of this thread and would my thoughts be “Oh crap! Will I have enough ammo for this?” Or will the confidence in myself, my ability and my carry gun of choice rule the doubt? Who knows?

I do know this. Some of you make a compelling argument that 5 on hand at the ready may not be enough…but then again it might. I think I will ponder this a while and maybe reread that definition of “confidence”. ;)
 
John Wick movies have had an effect on a lot of gun carriers.

Is more ammo a bad thing? Not at all. Are most people going to carry a double stack 9 and two extra magazines every minute of every day? Maybe some. Will they ever make it the second or even third magazine in a gunfight against multiple armed attackers? Probably not.

My life is simplified by the fact that I have dainty little hands. Plenty strong. Just not very big. So, I carry single stack guns or revolvers. Because they fit my hand. They conceal well and, I can actually hold onto the gun.

When we were issued Glocks, I was conscious of the fact that I could not wrap my hand around it tightly enough to insure someone couldn’t pry it out of my hand in a fight.

I made it 20 years with a 1911 with 8 shots.

MOST gunfights I’ve seen were a few rounds fired and somebody got hit and tipped over. Or, ran away.

There are absolutely no absolutes in any facet of life. Anything you do to up your odds, helps.

Your odds of dying in a car crash are much greater than a gunfight. Yet, very few people install a NASCAR roll cage in their daily driver. Have a full seat belt harness. Wear a helmet. And have an explosion proof gas tanks installed.

Balance.
 
357smallbore said:
To have a ccw and one you carry daily, Is a 5 or 6 shot revolver really enough in today's wacked out criminal world? Or do you really need the double stack autos?
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How about a thread polling how many shots everyone has had to fire at bad guys, not performing any LEO or military duties? If you average all answers, I would be surprised if the average is as high as 1.0 rounds.

That said, if one got into a real pickle and ran dry after 1000 rounds, I’d say they still didn’t have enough…
 
Few months ago I would have posted several examples where 5 hits failed to stop a single attacker, hoping to encourage people to not settle for low capacity.
If one is interested they are here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/do-examples-incidents-matter-to-you.902897/

The obvious take away being that one should carry more bullets...
Dang! Those guys too multiple hits, if they did then it is possible for someone else to to that. BUT Nooo...
What I get instead is reasons those incidents don't matter:
-That happened in a liquor store and I don't work in a liquor store, so that example doesn't count.
-I would have shot him in the head.
-That was a cop pulling the trigger, people shot by cops take more bullets to stop than if a civilian was pulling the trigger with the exact same shot placement.

Examples don't matter because one content with low capacity will rationalize it to suit them, every time.

And lets not forget that criminals are conveniently immobile allowing one to predict what type of threat they anticipate; I'll explain with a bit of humor:
In Small Town I have to defend myself the singular attacker will quiver in fear as I pull the gun from my pocket and if he doesn't run away like I expect him to then two hits (no missing) and he (singular) is instantly incapacitated; but, if I go to Big Town those criminals are tough, I carry high capacity and a reload there. No way they ever get in a vehicle and drive to where I feel comfortable with my snub. Thanks psychic ability, crystal ball.

I give up. Carry a derringer if you feel comfortable with that. Doesn't affect me.

I'd rather not run out of bullets before threat(s) are incapacitated, so more capacity is preferred and that is what I carry.
 
Nobody that I know of has ever been in a gun fight and said if only they had fewer bullets everything would have been okay. It's ridiculous to say 5, 6, or 8 is always going to be enough. Sometimes 15 isn't enough- that's why they make more magazines than guns. A double stack semi auto is always better than a revolver.

But everybody manages risk in their own way. I've gotten by with a 32 J frame for years just as many people have gone their entire lives without carrying anything.

If 6 or 12 rounds doesn't end it or at least get me to a real gun in the trunk of my car, it just wasn't my day. I'm willing to accept it.
 
This is how I approach the matter:
tmd16556 said:
For ccw, your goal is getting yourself and maybe others in your party away from the threat. I consider firing 0-1 shots, not hitting anyone, and running like hell and never seeing the bad guy again a successful self defense encounter. If you’re by yourself and mobile, a 5 shot J frame can buy you the time to extract yourself.
Click to expand...
 
Comparing or using Police Shooting Data is not a good comparison to a Civilian carrying a gun. There are situations and distances involved that not only should a Civilian avoid but that would highly likely lead to incarceration. Stand your ground laws aside you should be avoiding a conflict first and foremost, Police do not nor can they. I know the recent mall shooting jas everyone now thinking they are going to take 45 yard shots in public. Not happening nor should it. All that aside carry the largest most effective caliber with the highest capacity that fits your personal security plan. No two are the same so there is no one size fits all. Just be realistic and honest. Make smart choices that don’t cause you problems if God forbid you ever have to use it.
 
Violent crime in the US peaked around 1991. It dropped steadily until the past year or two, when it has started rising slightly. We're back to early or mid 1970's levels.

The "whacked out criminal world" where I live had its last murder about 20-25 years ago.

I carried a snub 38 or a 380 through the late 80's and early 90's, sometimes in dangerous areas, because that was all I had (Taurus Model 85 or Russian commercial Makarov).

I feel confident carrying similar firearms now that I'm living in a safer time period and in a (much) safer area.
 
The relationship here between the gun and the need to use it, is simply an instant in time. Everything else is just coincidence.

You need the best you can carry, that will allow you the best chance at settling things, and you always need it on you (add to that, the realistic skills to be proficient with it). When things happen, they happen, no matter where you are, and you have no real say in it.

For the past 15 years or so, weve been living in a very rural farming area thats basically a "low crime" area, yet weve had a number of murders and the assaults have gone up considerably just recently. Thats more deaths, in a "safe" area, than we had while living in the suburban area for the previous 15 years or so to moving here, that was "getting bad.

All you can ever really say is, you get what you get, when you get it, and if youre not prepared for whatever that is, then it is what it is.
 
A fact of life is that people miss and bad guys can take a lot of rounds before quitting the fight so I prefer to have enough rounds to cover all possibilities. If you look at the reports that come out after law enforcement shootings there are many cases where the suspect was shot far more than 5 times. If it took say, 7 hits to stop the guy then its safe to say that had the officer had 5 rounds he would have been in deep trouble. It's a big mistake to assume that a hit or two will be enough to stop an attacker.
 
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