Is it possible that the Swiss K-11/K31 series are the best rifles ever made?

[Boats]

The rifles only have crufflers as a market. The bayonets have several potential buyers, including those who live in countries where they can't own a working version of the rifle, therefore supply is lower.

The K31 is also facing an issue with matching magazines. K31s bridged the era of "one mag serialed to the rifle intended to be recharged by stripper clips, and the "new school" interchangeable and disposable box mag. Since they are detachable box mags that work in the usual manner, the original K31 mags are often "replaced" by aftermarket ones by "less scrupulous" sellers. Since these serial numbered magazines will often fetch about 2/5ths to half of the value of the rifle, I can see why this practice exists even as I find it distasteful.

 

[Blackfork]

AIM K31s

I'm the current Texas Vintage Military Rifle Champion and I shot it with a K31 and Swiss Mil ammo from AIM surplus. I just received a second walnut stocked K31 from AIM about a week ago. I'm not convinced it shoots as well as the first, but am still working the details out. I am going to take my other rifle out for doe tags this year.

Shot a 99X3 in the prone rapid portion of the match. The windage is off on the rifle so that it shoots 9:00. Had to use a hold off to just outside the aiming black at 200 yards. That's a lot. Going to try and drive the front sight over but looking for instructions first.

Sure wish these rifles had better sights. Like to try the Swiss apertures I hear about, but the price is too high.

I did switch the rear barrel band with a 1911 band so as to get the swivel on the bottom rather than the side after shooting the match. I think the lower swivel will make for a better hand position. Got the band from Numrich. Fits perfectly.

Just today another 480 rounds of Swiss mil ammo arrived from Ammoman.com. That's probably enough with my other partial box.

 

[Boats]

The front sight is driftable using its fore/aft dovetail to adjust left right. People have been known to use a brass punch to accomplish the adjustment, usually because the original front sight pusher tool is rare and expensive and even the aftermarket ones cost about $50.00

Go to swissdagger.com or look up one of Guisan's minishops via swissrifles.com if you want a sight pusher tool. Fortunately, mine were pretty dead on as delivered, but if I get one that is way off, I think the proper tool is eventually a bargain because the value of the rifles are only going up over time so why risk buggering a front sight?

 

[kaferhaus]

Is it possible that the Swiss K-11/K31 series are the best rifles ever made?

No

 

[Trumpet]

Only thing better is a 96 Swede

 

[Davo]

They are possibly the highest quality bolt action ever introduced into military service. Like their chocolate, watches, and army knives the Swiss know what they are doing.
Ive got a scoped one, and an open sighted one, and they bring me lots of joy!

 

[Fosbery]

The Swiss have possibly the largest army per capita of any country, yet they are the only country to issue match grade ammunition to all troops as standard.

I think that says it all really

 

[Dave Markowitz]

It can be converted to left hand use via one expensive part but with no tools or gunsmithing really required.

You piqued my interest. Please tell us more about this. Where to get it and how much?

Thanks.

 

[Glockensig]

Dang!! With threads like these, it's status as "well kept secret" is disappearing....

 

[Boats]

www.swissdagger.com costs about $300.00+ depending on the exchange rate. Piece is made by a Swiss gunsmith, though there are rumors of a cheaper domestic solution soon. That the K-31 is top ejecting makes the conversion painless if the southpaw part is present.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Sweet! Thanks.

 

[Loanshark]

I shoot lefty... how hard is it to operate as is for a southpaw?

 

[Jackal]

I have 2 K31's and I think they are by far the best mil-surp rifle currently imported.

 

[Limeyfellow]

They aren't too difficult for a southpaw to operate. It helps if you angle the rifle slightly to the right, reach across to the handle and pull back and forward. Just make sure you move your face out the way as a few people have learnt the hard way.

 

[LAK]

The fact of the matter is, the Swiss have been at or near the top of the pile when it comes to Old World design and engineering, metal materials and fabrication.

I'd gladly pay an equal amount for a pristine K-31 over any mass produced >$1,000 bolt gun on the market today.

I would agree with this pertaining to any rifle in that price range.

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[Cosmoline]

The 1911's and K-31's may be the finest war rifles of the 20th century. They're very fast firing, exceedingly accurate, and a lot tougher than folks give them credit for. The "weirdness" factor has kept a lot of folks stateside from appreciating them.

 

[dm1333]

Boats,
Are you a lefty and if so can you post a picture of your rifle with that funky looking thing being used? I may just have to head to make a trip to a gun shop to see if they have a K31 in stock. I see myself spending more and more money on this and falling further behind on all the other projects I have going on!

 

[Boats]

I shoot rifles both right handed, as I grew up in a house full of right hand bolt guns if I wanted to shoot Dad's rifles, and left handed, on my own dedicated hunting rifles as that is my natural handedness. I don't have a lefty handled K-31 yet.

I just find it interesting that the Swiss never forced us southpaws to "figger it out," or "just reach over" way back when they were first coming up with their version of the straight pull. The lefty part available today is, IIRC, a recreation of an originally available part from the arsenal.

Someday I just might get the lefty op rod, but I shoot the K31 right handed for now. Eye dominance is only a minor issue to me in that I have years of training my "off" eye to feel about as natural as my "dominant" one. I am more comfortable in my natural handedness, but I was no slouch as a switch hitter either because when one bats right handed, the right eye picks up the pitch first due to the angles involved between the head and the release point of the ball from the pitcher's hand. Hand eye coordination is something that can be trained up if one isn't a total klutz to begin with.

Switchable "eye dominance" is also a skill that can be picked up rather readily by anyone with equal binocular vision. Rifle bolt manipulation is easy compared to a technically proficient baseball swing with power. Most right handers think of switchable handedness as a major difficulty primarily because they live in a world where their handedness is catered to and have never really had to adapt to anything "wronghanded."

It is pretty funny at the range sometimes. People who don't know me well are sometimes amazed that after our right shoulders have felt the steel buttplate of a milsurp one too many times, I just switch shoulders and keep banging away with the other shoulder and eye and still get pretty consistent results. Only at ranges over 300m do my right hand skills seem to suffer compared to my left, but it is really only apparent offhand as I seem to wobble a little more and my groups open up.

In the switch hitter roles, the winners are the M1 and M1A. However, the AK seems to be made for southpaws, which is where I think the "AK ergonomics suck" complaints seem to come from right handers. I never have to "roll" an AK to use the safety or manipulate the bolt on a load or reload.

 

[dm1333]

I just talked to the UPS guy who is also a big shooter. He bought a Turkish Mauser because he had a bayonet that fit one. I'm about to go out and spend $100 on a rifle so I can buy a $300 part so I can shoot left handed. I thought I was over milsurps for a little while.

 

[BigG]

Those guns always remind me of this quote:

"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed - they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace and what did that produce...? The cuckoo clock." Orson Welles {and the Schmidt-Rubin} BigG

I always admire the machining on them (and Swedish Mausers) but I just can't get over the weirdness factor of em. That goes for all milsurps except M1 Carbines or US Model 1911 and A1s, Lugers, or old blackpowder era ones) Guess that leaves more for you, huh?

 

[Mr White]

in the interest of keeping our little secret safe...

These Swiss rifles are junk. They suck. You can't hit the broad side of a barn with one from inside. The ammo is too expensive. The stocks are never in nice condition. Their quality is on par with Jennings/Bryco/Lorcin. They are unsafe to fire. Many shooters have been killed when these cheap, dangerous guns went kaboom.

 

[BigG]

Switchable "eye dominance" is also a skill that can be picked up rather readily by anyone with equal binocular vision. Rifle bolt manipulation is easy compared to a technically proficient baseball swing with power. Most right handers think of switchable handedness as a major difficulty primarily because they live in a world where their handedness is catered to and have never really had to adapt to anything "wronghanded."

I agree with this 100%. My dad was a natural left hander but he shot everything right handed naturally, pistol or rifle, because that's the way he was taught. Threw a baseball and batted right handed also.

 

[Navy joe]

I have 3 and one on lay-away. I have Graf's brass and a hunting load made up that is near ready for prime time. I will have probably 8 K-31s before I am done. I improved the trigger on the one I am using if that is possible, once you take up the 1st stage it seems as if the rifle fires by sub-concious thought, it is beautiful.

Left-handed operation. Hold the rifle as you would a hard recoiling gun, that is keep your left thumb straight along the left side of the stock, not crossed over the back. Keep the gun tucked in to your shoulder and cheek and bring the right hand back to run the bolt. It is stupid fast.

 

[farmallmta]

I can just barely bring myself to fire my K-31... it is in such perfect, pristine, factory new condition I just find it hard to pollute it by actually firing the thing... but I get over it fast! LOL.

Just a SWEET, SWEET, SWEET rifle! To be brutally honest about it, I have never fired a gun, custom or otherwise, that can beat my $79 K-31 in quality of machining, design, and construction, dead-on aim, shooting characteristics, or even looks. Don't get me wrong, I love my VZ-24's and my Swedes, but the K-31 is just not beatable.

And for the anti-iron sights crowd, just put a long relief scope on it and prepare to be amazed! What a GUN!

 

[LAK]

TimboKhan

I love my K31, but the simple fact of the matter is that it does not have the camming power of other bolt action military arms, thus taking it out of the "best ever" running

I wonder; certainly there is always the possibility of a sticky case for one reason or another, although the quality of Swiss ammunition being commensurate with their arms I'd say it is very uncommon. With genuine Swiss gov surplus ammo that is.

Anyone here ever have - or hear of - a failure to extract with GP11 ammo?

I agree with Cosmoline too that these rifles are much tougher than most people give them credit for.

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