Is RIA the default for bang for the buck 1911s?

[chaim]

I have had a RIA Rock Standard CS (Officer sized, non-GI version with some extra features, most notably better sights) for a few months. It has become my favorite carry gun when I'm in a state where I can carry. It is reliable, accurate, and fun to shoot. When I get a 10mm, RIA will be on my list.

That said, also take a look at Ruger for a bit more, Springfield Armory Mil-spec for a bit more, and Remingtons are often going for near RIA prices. The Citadel is marketed by another company and has some different features, but is also made by Armscor so you should also check them out.

 

[LiveLife]

The Citadel is marketed by another company and has some different features, but is also made by Armscor so you should also check them out.

Citadel is a "Target" model with tighter tolerances and will produce smaller shot groups than RIA Tactical - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...bang-for-the-buck-1911s.832616/#post-10760589

If one plans on shooting 200 gr Lead SWC reloads on a regular basis, I would suggest RIA Tactical over Citadel due to looser tolerances.

RIA 1911 chamber mouth was flared generously and had longer leade. This flared chamber mouth with longer leade allowed RIA 1911 to feed even sloppy SWC reloads and reliably fed/chambered even when dirty from shooting several hundred rounds of lead reloads ... Due to this, I now call RIA "Glock" of 1911s.

... I also bought a Citadel 1911 (which is also made by Armscor) and it has tighter chamber with shorter leade

 

[Walkalong]

I remember when Springfield Armory was the Value buy

 

[Jonesy814]

a good "Bang for the buck" 1911 is the Springfield Armory line.. forged and made in Brasil, I believe. I and a friend have gotten good use out of a "sight enhanced" Springer 1911. IF I was going to invest in a non-Colt/non USA made 1911 I would go for a Springfield, personally.

My Springfield Armory Mil-Spec model, purchase in 2013 was made in USA, not Brazil. It has performed and held up quite well so far. Mine is Parkerized, but they make a lot of stainless guns too

 

[Ranald]

My Springfield Armory Mil-Spec model, purchase in 2013 was made in USA, not Brazil. It has performed and held up quite well so far. Mine is Parkerized, but they make a lot of stainless guns too

Many of the Springers are made in Brasil outright; others are put together rough-finished in Brasil and shipped to USA for final fitting and finish, enuff "value-added" work being done here to allow them to be labeled "Made In USA" altho the frames and many of the parts are made by Imbel. Nothing bad about an Imbel- my Imbel-made FAL has functioned flawlessly for years. An Imbel-made Springer is a quality piece and it isnt a Taurus or Rossi build. No intent to malign or belittle the Springfields... sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[Old Dog]

Ranald, please update yourself on the current status of Springfield Armory 1911s.

 

[Old Dog]

And no, RIA is not the current "value buy" in 1911s. Springfield Armory and Colt still hold that honor.

 

[Ranald]

Ranald, please update yourself on the current status of Springfield Armory 1911s.

Old Dog I suggest that you do the same..

 

[CajunBass]

I bought a used one a few weeks ago myself. It appeared to be the next best thing to new, just no box, and it had two magazines. One standard GI type 7 round and an 8 round of some kind. I haven't fired it a lot, only about 50 rounds, but it worked just fine, with no malfunctions. It's not something I'm going to shoot a lot, but I found a couple hundred rounds of 45 ammo in the back of the safe, and I realized I didn't have a gun to shoot 45 auto.

The sights are small, but so were the ones on a Colt GM I had back in my IPSC days (local club) many years ago. I have noticed the last few years that all gun makers are making sights out of some fuzzy material, as are the ones of this gun. I've been meaning to write a stern letter to someone about that.

On a serious note about the sights, they seem to shoot point on for me at seven yards. Using my usual six o'clock hold and I was hitting low. Moved the front up to cover the X ring and the X ring disappeared quickly.

I like the way it looks with the matte finish, and the smooth grips. It seems to be well made, and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg. The layout feels exactly like that Colt GM I had years ago. The old muscle memory came right back.

 

[JR24]

And no, RIA is not the current "value buy" in 1911s. Springfield Armory and Colt still hold that honor.

I find Colt over priced* for what you get. Springfield ROs are good value if you don't mind buying from a company who sold out Illinois gunowners for a quick buck.

Ill take a Ruger over either under $1K and a Wesson over $1K myself.

*The exception with Colt is the Wiley Clapp models, they are a good value but I hate the spur safety they come with, so value is lost IMO when I immediately have to replace parts.

 

[pblanc]

I have a full-size RIA "Rock" model, which is the new name for what was called the FS-Tactical model shown in the video above. This is different from the Tactical-II model that RIA sells now. I also got a good deal on the pistol and bought it NIB for well under $400.

My experience with the RIA has been pretty good, but I had to do some tinkering to get it to run properly, and quite a few parts swaps. Many of the parts swaps were a matter of personal preference or were done to fit my hand. As shown in the video, the guns do come quite oily. I am not impressed with the ACT magazine that comes with the pistol, but I usually use Chip McCormick or Wilson Combat magazines anyway. I agree that the ambi safety lever is egregious and knew it would have to be replaced or modified when I bought the pistol. It is very sharp on the edges and the right side lever is in the way for a right-handed shooter. I wound up fitting a new non-ambi thumb safety from Wilson Combat. The polymer grips that came with the pistol were too thin to suit my hands. The smooth wooden grips had a better thickness for me, but were too smooth and slippery. I wound up replacing the grips with some checkered wooden grips with a Pearce grip sleeve beneath it. The checkering on the front strap of the frame is actually recessed somewhat, so it does little to provide a secure grip. My hand size also requires a longer trigger shoe so I replaced the trigger, although the trigger that came with the pistol was not bad. The checkering on the safety lever was also somewhat sharp and rough and the edges of the polymer mainspring housing were sharp and somewhat uncomfortable so the MSH got replaced with a flat, steel model and the slide stop with a Wilson Combat slide stop.

I had fairly frequent failures to return to battery fully with the first few hundred rounds through this pistol. I would say about 10% of cartridges fed from magazine did not fully chamber, and this seemed independent on magazine, or which round in the magazine was being fed. There were tooling marks on the feed ramp and barrel throat. I did some polishing of the ramp, barrel throat, and barrel hood. I also got the impression when racking the slide that there was some binding on the full-length guide rod. I am not a believer in FLGRs anyway, so I replaced the guide rod with a short GI version, and replaced the open-ended plug with a closed GI model. These modifications seemed to address the failure to return to battery issue, and after a few more hundred rounds, I have had few, if any malfunctions with FMJ ammo.

The trigger action itself was quite good and the beavertail grip safety quite comfortable. Sights were dovetailed front and rear. The sights were completely blacked out, and I felt that the rear sight aperture was a bit too narrow. I replaced the front sight with a fiberoptic from Hi-Viz, and englarged the rear sight notch a bit. The magazine release button was a bit hard to access with the thicker grips and grip sleeve, so it got replaced with an extended version. I replaced all of the springs with a Wilson Combat spring kit, although this was pretty much a feel good parts swap.

With all of these modifications I now have about $600 in this pistol. But it is comfortable to shoot and accurate and the early feeding problems seem to have been ironed out.

I also have one of the Springfield Armory "GI 45" model pistols made by Imbel in Brazil. Imbel has not made pistols, slides, or frames for SA since 2014 or earlier. As it turns out, my SA GI 45 has been nothing but trouble with frequent stove pipes and erratic ejection. It is finally running tolerably after having been worked on by three different gunsmiths.

 

[Old Dog]

Old Dog I suggest that you do the same..

Springfield Armory cut its ties with IMBEL at least three years ago. I had purchased a recent production lightly-used TRP, had some questions and called Deb at SACS; at that time, she informed me that all SA 1911s are now made with U.S. forged parts --- AND all machining is also done by SA. I had this later confirmed by a fairly well-known gunsmith who used to work for SA and allegedly still has some ties with the company.

I agree that some current production Colts are often overpriced (compared with its competitors) for what you get, e.g., Kimber at least offers frontstrap-checkering and good Meprolight nightsights at similar price-points. But Colt pistols do tend to hold their value better than, for example, Ruger 1911s. To me, that represents "bang for my buck." And I'll still take any Springfield pistol over an RIA.

 

[Dudedog]

I traded for a Citadel 1911 (which is also made by Armscor). It was well trained by it previous owner a THR member.
It seems to shoot quite well. I have put 3K-4K rounds thru it with no issues. Don't know how many were on it when I got it.
Is it as nice as my Springfield Loaded 1911, no, does it function and shoot fine yes.
Good gun for the money IMO.

 

[C0untZer0]

I'm surprised how pricey the Taurus is in comparison to RIA

 

[Slamfire]

Springfield Armory cut its ties with IMBEL at least three years ago. I had purchased a recent production lightly-used TRP, had some questions and called Deb at SACS; at that time, she informed me that all SA 1911s are now made with U.S. forged parts --- AND all machining is also done by SA. I had this later confirmed by a fairly well-known gunsmith who used to work for SA and allegedly still has some ties with the company.

This is great to know. It did rankle me that major parts were outsourced, not that IMBEL cannot produce a good forging, obviously they can. Might help induce me to buy another Springer.

I do agree that Colt branded pistols have held their value. People will pay for the Pony. That does not matter as much to me as purchasing value and shooting value. I don't care what people will get for the guns they pry from my cold, dead, hands.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Springfield Armory cut its ties with IMBEL at least three years ago. I had purchased a recent production lightly-used TRP, had some questions and called Deb at SACS; at that time, she informed me that all SA 1911s are now made with U.S. forged parts --- AND all machining is also done by SA.

I thought this was common knowledge...it was a pretty big change when announced

I remember when folks would always insist that their SA 1911 was made domestically because it had the "NM" marking...when it was common knowledge that all SA 1911s started life in an IMBEL factory. Now I'm finding folks who think that some SA 1911s are still produced there

 

[stchman]

I would recommend the Tisas GI spec 1911. I owned both a Tisas and a RIA and the Tisas was the better built 1911.

 

[Tallball]

Here's my Tisas. It's nothin' fancy, but it goes bang every time and shoots where it's aimed.

View media item 1556

 

[LiveLife]

Keep in mind there are $1000+ 1911s that cannot go bang every time.

 

[imashooter]

I have Colt, DW, CZ, SA, Norinco, Tisas, and a few remaining RIAs. I've had 6 RIAs and only one bad one out of the group; cosmetic only. My remaining rocks are excellent and one is an absolute laser. My near-daily carry is my older compact RIA that I've done a couple of unnecessary mods to.

 

[Old Dog]

Keep in mind there are $1000+ 1911s that cannot go bang every time.

And what would those be? Please -- enlighten us.

 

[LiveLife]

1911s on various threads that cannot reliably feed/chamber.

And pistols not working reliably is not exclusive to 1911s as there is a thread on pistols that jam with factory ammunition (1911s mentioned in the thread) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pistols-that-constantly-jam.832658/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-problem.606423/#post-7480164

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ouble-calling-1911-gurus.390348/#post-4881901

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-ftf-problems.14393/#post-179732

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...eding-issues-on-s-w-1911.317526/#post-3907495

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ompact-1911-feeding-ques.691481/#post-8596564

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-magazine-problems.368440/#post-4568389

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-ccw-with-feed-problems.791540/#post-10072732

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-malfunction-suggestions.132318/#post-1615049

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...1-ftf-problems-and-fixes.396848/#post-4966918

And there are plenty more.

 

[imashooter]

Unfortunately, no more Tisas imported here as I understand it. Too bad. Mine's excellent. I'd say similar to a Rock but with a better finish. Though likely my imagination, it also seems to be built like a tank.

 

[Old Dog]

1911s on various threads that cannot reliably feed/chamber.

And pistols not working reliably is not exclusive to 1911s as there is a thread on pistols that jam with factory ammunition (1911s mentioned in the thread) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pistols-that-constantly-jam.832658/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-problem.606423/#post-7480164

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ouble-calling-1911-gurus.390348/#post-4881901

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-ftf-problems.14393/#post-179732

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...eding-issues-on-s-w-1911.317526/#post-3907495

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ompact-1911-feeding-ques.691481/#post-8596564

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-magazine-problems.368440/#post-4568389

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-ccw-with-feed-problems.791540/#post-10072732

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-malfunction-suggestions.132318/#post-1615049

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...1-ftf-problems-and-fixes.396848/#post-4966918

And there are plenty more.

Thank you for sharing (how long did your research take?). So ten threads dating back to 2003 ... and I too am sure there are plenty more. The 1911 is not-very-complex mechanically and small defects will cause regular malfunctions, yet almost all of these are well-known and easily remedied. Yes, it is frustrating when you fork over more than a grand for a nice, big name pistol and it doesn't run 100%. But we know that in the manufacturing of this platform, a company's quality control process is paramount; we know that the smaller the package is made, the greatly the likelihood of issues and certainly, the cheaper a company attempts to go in its manufacturing process, the greater the likelihood of common problems cropping up. The 1911 is the one firearm one may choose that really dictates that its owners/shooters educate themselves on how the platform works, how to perform maintenance on it, and how to resolve the known issues. Funny how all the threads about how someone's new 1911 doesn't run are usually put up by those who aren't dedicated, long-time 1911 folks.

I just can't get the attraction to budget 1911s, myself. Seems to me that the arena of budget 1911s is a crap-shoot. If I want a reliable $400 pistol, I'd probably buy a used Glock or a new Canik or something like that.

 

[LiveLife]

I started shooting USPSA matches with a 1911.

My bullseye match shooting mentor not only taught me to reload and shoot, he also taught me to perform trigger job/custom work on the 1911. The match pistol was built on Norinco 1911 heavily fortified with Wilson Combat components. After doing a 2.5 lb trigger job, he had me hand file a Wilson Combat beaver tail to match the frame profile of the 1911. It took me almost 4 hours but I learned a lot about hand fitting 1911 parts.

Fast forward to almost 500,000 rounds later and switching match pistols to two Glock 22s; when I could not purchase a Dan Wesson 1911 PM7 (only 250 made each year for California), I "settled" on a $850 railed Sig 1911 XO with Nitron finish.

Sig 1911 having one of tightest chambers I have seen with no leade and very sharp start of rifling, it reliably fed and chambered various 200 gr SWC (even hand casted tumble lubed bullets from Lee molds) from day one out of the box. It now has over 10,000 rounds shot through it without any parts breakage other than recoil spring replacement. While I prefer Chip McCormick Power Mag and Wilson Combat 47D 8 round magazines, factory magazines have worked well too.

I believe guns are simply tools that send bullets out the barrel. If a gun at any price cannot do that reliably, we have a problem; especially if your life depends on that pistol.

RIA 1911s cost less than many other brand 1911s but just because they cost less does not mean they should not be reliable. In fact, after shooting couple of RIA Tacticals brand new out of the box, I was so impressed that I recommended to a friend who was looking for an entry level 1911. That 1911 now has over 10,000 rounds through it and it has performed reliably with even sloppy 200 gr SWC reloads.

Recently a member in the Handloading & Reloading category started a thread about his $250 ATI 1911 not reliably feeding HP reloads when factory FMJ ammunition worked well. He was hoping his ATI 1911 would reliably feed 200 gr SWC reloads. While we entertained different causes including magazines and extractor; since factory rounds worked well, I decided to send him an assortment of 200/230 gr SWC/RN bullets to test.

When he received the bullets, 200 gr SWC bullets fed and chambered reliably - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/45acp-1911-problems.832138/page-3#post-10766337

My search for 1911 feeding problem did not take much time and impression that I got was price of 1911 did not really ensure the reliability of the pistol.

I am happy enough with my Sig 1911 which I use for accuracy testing platform that I no longer desire the Dan Wesson PM7. If I wanted a reliable range use 1911, I would not hesitate to buy a RIA 1911.