Is the shooting experience being priced into Elitism?

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Like someone else mentioned, the $20 box of 100 rounds 9mm at Wal-Mart is the best deal I can find. I got my shotgun shells for 60 cents each.

So I can rent a lane at the range for $9, a couple bucks for targets, and $20 in ammo...about $30 to practice and get better...once or twice a month...anyone can afford that if they're smart with their money.
 
I shoot for fun, not in competitions and not for a living. I shoot when I feel like shooting, and don't when I don't. Pretty simple. I also shoot four of the cheapest rounds out there: .22lr, 9mm, 7.62x54r and 7.62x39. I just loaded up a new drum may and two more 20 rounders and still have unopened boxes of the 39. I spent about $30 to load the mags, which isn't bad considering I don't reload or buy in bulk. I don't have money coming out the wazoo, and support my family on a single income. If only the elite could afford to shoot, I would have sold my guns.
 
valnar
Is the shooting experience being priced into Elitism?

I'm only speaking from my personal experience. Shooting sports and general plinking is probably one of the less expensive sports to get into. One can pick up a used 22LR revolver, safety glasses, ear plugs, & a brick of 22LR ammo for less than $250. If one really looks and asks the right questions, that amount can be around $200. The problem is that if the "sport" becomes a "hobby", then gawd help you 'cause it becomes a money pit like any hobby.

As for elitism, that happens in any hobby or sport. You will always have some people that look down upon anything that they perceive as less in value as their own stuff. The Taurus/Hi-Point-is-complete-garbage-and-I-would-rather-use-a-brick-if-my-life-was-at-stake-crowd is a good example. I'm also sure that there are some folks reading this post thinking "What the hell is he talking about...$200 to get into the sport?".
 
Dunno that the cost of guns and ammunition has necessarily priced shooting as a hobby or recreational pursuit in "elitism" ...

However, I just gassed up my wife's SUV and paid $4.29 for regular.

Using your same reasoning & criteria, is the price of gas making driving a motor vehicle "elitism"? :scrutiny:
 
Using your same reasoning & criteria, is the price of gas making driving a motor vehicle "elitism"?

That's funny, but point well taken.

Thanks for the input so far. I believe everyone is correct that the price of arms, comparatively, has dropped over the years, or more to the point "not" risen in comparison to inflation. But I have no doubt that ammo has increased higher than inflation due to the cost of raw materials. I think of what I paid for cartridges back in the late 1990's and it has skyrocketed since then. I never, ever, considered reloading my ammo back 10 years ago. Now it is on the radar.
 
its all in priorities, i have an 04 road king, didn't pay no 30 grand for it, 18000.00 used with 1305 miles on it in late 04. i am in the low middle class too. people driving 40000.00 4wds always say, boy i wish i could afford one of those. i pinch pennys, don't take vacations, drive a truck older than my bike, buy almost everything at yard sales, but i do have my harley and guns. MOST anyone can afford to own and shoot some kind of gun, and own a harley, if its a priority.
 
Someone needs to find an inflation calculator and put in the price of a few guns from past years and calculate them to today's prices and see what comes out. That will be be the closest thing to facts we will have in this thread and I'll bet it will be interesting.

Forgive typos. Posted from my iPhone via tapatalk.
DS
 
I remember the days when one could buy .303 enfields for $10.00, Jungle Carbines for $15.00.

Today those should be in the $75 to $100 dollar range.

I also remember buying gas in the '50's/60's for $ .16 cents a gal. So gas should be $1.25 a gal today, something happened.
 
jcwit said:
I remember the days when one could buy .303 enfields for $10.00, Jungle Carbines for $15.00.

Today those should be in the $75 to $100 dollar range.


It was not because that was the price of that firearm, but rather because they were surplus.
To get that surplus required an empire upgrading to something else, and involved mass production for World Wars were many people died, were rationed, and generally had a lower quality of life.
Would you trade another World War for some cheap surplus some decades down the road?


The reason you don't have similarly inexpensive modern surplus is because of legislation. Legislation prevents civilians from being given select fire rifles.
Select fire rifles have been the standard for half a century, so civilians can no longer have such surplus dropped on them like in prior generations.
Instead the government destroys it, sells it to other governments, or gives or nearly permanently 'loans' (due to legal technicalities) it to other government forces like federal and local law enforcement agencies.

Many police departments have received retired m16s for around that price. If it was legal for civilians to have them you may have received them too.

I can assure you that after the end of the Cold War there was a lot of 'excess' that would have been just as inexpensive as those Enfields adjusted for inflation.
Clinton had nearly almost a million m14's destroyed, those would have been among the flood of surplus.
Similar quantities of USGI 1911 pistols were destroyed, due to legislation and politics, and those were legal for civilians to own.
A lot of m3s, Thompsons, and other guns stockpiled in armories were similarly destroyed.
You could probably have had a surplus M3 for under $25.

Then there is all sorts of import laws now in place preventing even semi-auto surplus from freely flowing into the nation like it used to be able to. You have 'sporting purpose' restrictions, 922(r), bans on Chinese guns, or Russian handgun imports, points systems handguns imported must meet, and loads of other crap that reduces the foreign surplus market available in the USA.


So no, the difference is not inflation and cost of the arm, but politics and legal reasons you do not see the market saturated with retired more modern surplus like it was in the 1950s and 60s.



jcwit said:
I also remember buying gas in the '50's/60's for $ .16 cents a gal. So gas should be $1.25 a gal today, something happened.

It was on par with that in the 1990s into the early 2000s. Gas cost under $1 without the new additional state and federal taxes placed on it. There was new road taxes at the federal level on fuel, and states that previously didn't tax fuel at all have now uniformly began taxing it by the gallon. Some much more than others.
Taxes on fuel in 2009:
776px-US_Diesel_Taxes_April_2009.svg.png


It has now of course skyrocketed in cost beyond these taxes or inflation.
 
I don't think it's an economic issue, it's an internet (well, a web) issue. More and more people join sites like these to discuss guns and related activities. And they typically don't spend time discussing $250 handguns, factory reloads, or plinking at a nearby open pit.
No, it's H&K's, Kimbers, high-end bolt rifles, interesting AR's and upgraded Saiga 12 gauges.
It's more interesting, gets the juices flowing regarding informed and uninformed responses and a lot of fun engaging in the wanna be discussions. All good.
But statistically, these are not the average hand- or long-guns that people buy for home defense or hunting.
There may also be some SES bias re who is on the internet and thus what they own.
 
Nope

If you actually want to see what shooting as a sport for the elites is talk to shooters in Europe. The price for firearms produced there and sold there are much much higher than the same firearm sold here. The cost of accessories is much much higher. The licensing is much much higher.

Things may be getting more expensive here for shooters, but it is nothing compared to what our colleagues in Europe pay.
 
Read through this thread, and the thing that stuck with me is the comment on the first page about anyone being under 45 being that man's kid and being spoiled.

Sorry, Pops, but you're not my old man, and I paid for every gun, every bullet, and every mag I own, so I'm not spoiled, thank you very much.

Some people complain about not being able to have hobbies. These are the same people with just high school educations with jobs that are prone to layoffs, and 4 children they had while in their 20s.

Versus, say, a person with graduate degrees, a high end job, single, and investing 50% of their income...that person can buy whatever gun he wants each month.

It's all about choices.
 
I think what makes it seem more expensive is more of our money goes to other priorities first, then what is left over is divied out to our hobbies/sports. I used to go out and bu several boxes of .44mag and bricks of .22lr and shoot them in a day. Easily afforded all that and the guns and the gas and the new car and...but now, I have a family, health insurance, medical bills, used cars, more hobbies that require money, my fixer-upper house and my farm animals. I make over 3 times what I did back then, but have more pre-shooting activities demanding my money.
 
I'm 61. We recently went through an abnormal period of pretty cheap surplus and domestic ammo. Now things are back to more of what I think of as normal pricing, although it's still cheaper than it was in the '50s and '60s.
Sure, a box of Winchester .22 LR was only 55 or 60 cents when I was a youngster, but I only made $1.15 an hour at McDonalds in 1966.

Ammo was too expensive to blast with back then. I still think it's wasteful. Fun, but useless.

We also went through a period or two recently with superheated areas of the economy and lots of people had money to burn. Wheeeee, pile on the debt and spend it like it's going out of style. Lots of high school and college students from that era believe that kind of economy was normal and that it's coming back soon. Nope, sorry.

John
 
The problem is todays kids, yes if your under 45 years you are one of my kids, you are all spoilied. Back in the 1930's and 40's most people shot 12 gauge or 22 LR, basicly hunters shot the large bore centerfire rifles and then only maybe 10 or 15 rounds per year. Some would compete but only a very few. Today shooting is a sport (and here I though it was for feeding the family).

This is about what I think of it. Really, "the shooting experience" is kinda like looking at old westerns - its a thing that never really existed.

People in this country have long owned guns and shot them, but I think people are SERIOUSLY overestimating HOW MUCH those guns got shot. Most of my friends and family for example are pretty old-school folks. They hunt and own guns and what not, but most view target shooting as "wastin' bullets".

The practice of visiting a range and shooting hundreds of rounds of ammo at a time is mostly a more modern thing, at least for most folks.
 
Is the shooting experience being priced into Elitism?
IMO, this is one of the more significant questions asked on this forum. Dismissive responses fail to consider the NFA shooting experience and associated price. If all shooting were regulated to a similar extent, then the experience would not be as accessible as currently enjoyed. Also if pricing headed upward toward elitism, the clientele for ranges and gun stores would shrink and those "opportunities" would decrease.

Of course it should be recognized that regulation is not free and inherently produces higher cost in the form of bigger government and higher taxes. Conceivably, an effective strategy employed by gun control advocates would be to regulate toward elitism. We may not be there yet, but we've certainly been prodded down that road some distance -- from "no infringement" toward ever increasing infringement in the form of regulation. Is there any going back?

Perhaps we are so far away from elitism that we take the current situation for granted. However, as we know: "the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" so 3 questions:
1. What road have we been on for the past 200 years?
2. What direction on that road will the next steps take us?
3. Will you be part of the problem or part of the solution?
 
I'm not saying I like higher prices on anything, but you have to "pay to play" for a lot of things. People afford what they want.

Amongst my friends and acquaintences, I'm a very small minority when it comes to cable/sat TV. I don't have the time to watch it and I don't want my kids watching all the crap on TV, but there are millions of people that just vege out on mindless programming for hours on end every day. Others still dump thousands into cars/atv's/snow mobiles, sports, movies, video games etc. Guns just happens to be what I spend time and money on for both entertainment and defense.
 
We recently went through an abnormal period of pretty cheap surplus and domestic ammo.

I believe that might be part of it. I started during the surplus heyday, but I also remember 9mm and .45ACP being much cheaper just 10 years ago. Nowadays, the only surplus stuff left is 7.62x54r or 7.62x39. Wanna buy a factory rifle round above .338? Forget it. $60 for a box is insanity.

Does anybody have a link that shows a chart with ammo prices over the decades, so we can put some objective numbers to our subjective statements?
 
When I started shooting, I had a lot of other things that ate my paycheck. There was rent, carpayments, kids clothes, dental bills, etc. Now, I have fewer expenses but gas, food, and hobbies cost more. Seems about the same to me. There is always unlimited demand but limites funds.
 
I understand the the intention of the question but i think the terminology is incorrect. The definition of ELITISM is this:
e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
I think the real question is more appropriately: Is the cost of shooting preventing the "average " person from participating?
In my opinion it is not. I do think that hunting is escalating to some lofty heights.
 
Shooting can be as cheap, or as expensive as you make it. You want to shoot long range? Go get a decent .22 and max it out. You can shoot out to 300 yards pretty effectively, and when you move the skills learned at 300 yards those translate to shooting high power out to 1k pretty well. Sure it is not the same but it will take a lot less ammo on the expensive stuff to reach an acceptable level of profiency.
 
I could see it becomming an elitist hobby if the ammo prices keeps rising and income stays the same.

It it way cheaper to reload and cast your own bullets. I have been using Lee reloading products for over 40+ yrs. I started out with the hand loader, progressed to the single stage, then bought the 4 turret and was given a 3 turret. It takes longer than using an RCBS, Dillon, etc., but I have more time than I do money.
 
Quote:
Just listen to stories of prior decades when many people used to have to ration individual shots, and ammo was so valuable that shooting outside of hunting was often considered wasteful.
Going and shooting hundreds of rounds as many do now at the range, or thousands as many do in a competition, would have been nearly unheard of for most people in many prior generations.

Totally agreed... these "woe is me" threads just crack me up after a while.


The cost of 50 rounds 45 Colt ammo back in the late 1800s was easily a full day's average wages. Today, even at minimum wage you could afford 2+ 50 round boxes of the same ammo. If ammo prices were the same today relative to what they were in the late 1800s, a box of LRN 45 Colt (50 rounds) would be roughly $100. Not an exact figure, I just did some of the basic math in my head, but you get the idea.
 
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