Is there a way to make birdshot useful for defense?

[Acera]

Instead of going through all that trouble of melting etc.

Why not pry open the top (yeah, you can't be cool and use a knife) then use epoxy to glue the shot together and then close the top and shoot?

Seems like you went a to a lot of trouble to accomplish a simple thing in the name of an emergency situation. Remember in an emergency, simple is better and you used glue in your project.

I don't think some understand that cut shells were an old poachers trick. It is not a choice to buy a slug or not, it is using what you have to make do or avoid a legal issue.


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[chopinbloc]

I can't understand the basic question. Why?
6 bucks for a box of target loads a bit more for game loads. Buy a box of something with some punch to it.

If you want to use birdshot, magnum turkey loads would probably be an attention getter.

Cut shells are certainly a lost art, they do have a useful place in ones shooting knowledge base.

What if you couldn't buy anything?


Again, if you watch the video or read the OP, this video is mostly just about screwing around with gun stuff because screwing around with gun stuff is fun, but the practical justification is that, if you had a pile of birdshot and needed to make something useful of it, making a slug might be a way to do that. If buckshot and slugs were unavailable.

 

[chopinbloc]

Instead of going through all that trouble of melting etc.

Why not pry open the top (yeah, you can't be cool and use a knife) then use epoxy to glue the shot together and then close the top and shoot?

Seems like you went a to a lot of trouble to accomplish a simple thing in the name of an emergency situation. Remember in an emergency, simple is better and you used glue in your project.

I don't think some understand that cut shells were an old poachers trick. It is not a choice to buy a slug or not, it is using what you have to make do or avoid a legal issue.
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I've been thinking of trying something of the sort. I could still be "cool" and cut it open if I'm just going to bind the shot together and to the wad, though. I'm also want to find something that would hold buckshot together like a wax slug, but that wouldn't melt in a hot car. You could leave a layer of empty (no shot) binder at the bottom of the payload to keep it front heavy and stable. This arrangement might not be as accurate as a proper Foster style slug, but it would extend the range of buckshot much farther out, while still giving the on target performance that buckshot provides.

 

[Warp]

Trade it for buckshot

I've been thinking of trying something of the sort. I could still be "cool" and cut it open if I'm just going to bind the shot together and to the wad, though. I'm also want to find something that would hold buckshot together like a wax slug, but that wouldn't melt in a hot car. You could leave a layer of empty (no shot) binder at the bottom of the payload to keep it front heavy and stable. This arrangement might not be as accurate as a proper Foster style slug, but it would extend the range of buckshot much farther out, while still giving the on target performance that buckshot provides.

Federal Flight Control Wad.

You're welcome.

 

[chopinbloc]

Well, yes. A binder material could extend that range even farther. Whether that is something that is even useful is another argument.

 

[Indawind]

In the situation of only having what is on hand then creativity is where is at. A cut shell would be the the simplest.

Knowing the limitation of the shot I think shot placement would be the most likely way to enhance it's performance. Not even concidering up close. I think 12g ANYTHING is going to make for a bad day inside 1-2 feet.

 

[chopinbloc]

A cut shell could fall apart as you're cycling it and it could bulge your barrel. Birdshot penetrates inadequately because it has insufficient sectional density. Firing at 12" doesn't magically increase the sectional density. It still has insufficient penetration. Casting a slug from birdshot is far from ideal, but if you had to choose between using a cut shell, hoping for the best with unmodified birdshot, or a field expedient slug, the latter is most definitely better.

 

[Indawind]

. I'm also want to find something that would hold buckshot together like a wax slug, but that wouldn't melt in a hot car. You could leave a layer of empty (no shot) binder at the bottom of the payload to keep it front heavy and stable. This arrangement might not be as accurate as a proper Foster style slug, but it would extend the range of buckshot much farther out, while still giving the on target performance that buckshot provides.

One of these waxes would probably do the trick.

http://www.machinablewax.com/product.php?product=44

 

[Sistema1927]

Cut shells, interesting, I had never heard of them before today.

However, I think that I would limit my use to break action shotguns, and not try them in repeaters.

 

[Snyper]

Add "blew up gun" when you Google "cut shells" and you'll see why it's a stupid thing to do.

If you want slugs, buy slugs.
If you want shot for defense loads, make sure it's Buckshot.

 

[Schwing]

Cut shells, interesting, I had never heard of them before today.

However, I think that I would limit my use to break action shotguns, and not try them in repeaters.

Yes. I personally think it is interesting but don't do it at all. If I did, I would either use a break action or load one shell at a time. They bend a lot so any cycling action could be a bad idea.

Unless I am really mistaken, a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. I don't see things like this as items to add to my "to do" list. I see them as interesting bits of info that make you say "Hmmm... I didn't know that."

 

[chopinbloc]

Exactly. Gun stuff is fun.

 

[gspn]

Even at contact distance, birdshot does not penetrate adequately.

What is the definition of "contact distance" being used here?

 

[chopinbloc]

Generally, "contact distance" means any distance where you could reach out and touch your target without taking a step, but if you were to place the barrel literally touching the target, birdshot would still not adequately penetrate.

 

[gbran]

Probably a very painful onslaught to walk into, or continue walking into and likely far more painful than pepper spray.

 

[chopinbloc]

Pain != incapacitation. Pain compliance is a psychological stop and it is the sort of terminology used in relation to deployment of less lethal tools, which are not a solid choice for a lone homeowner confronted with a deadly threat.

 

[stilllearning]

I have to say I'm with saddlebag preacher on this, would bird shot be my first choice? No. But at typical self defense distances..... If you would like to volunteer to prove me wrong, Well I'll wait for the You tube video.... Maybe you can compare 9 shot dove loads and 5 shot turkey or coyote loads.... I just can't see anyone even someone wearing body armor volunteering for a second chance,

fwiw

 

[chopinbloc]

This is a terrible and oft repeated argument. Volunteer to let me throw rocks at your face. Oh, you don't want to? Then a pocket full of rocks is a legitimate home defense choice.

 

[Curator]

My old uncle from Rhodesia claimed they were reduced to shot shells only after the Mugabe government took over. What they did was get real hot "paraffin " wax (canning wax), open the crimp of shot shells, and fill the shot space with the hot, melted wax.If the melted wax was hot enough it would penetrate throughout the shot and harden into a solid mass. Good for Lions, Leopard, and two-legged predators.

 

[chopinbloc]

Wax slugs don't penetrate any deeper than loose shot.

 

[Acera]

.............. but if you were to place the barrel literally touching the target, birdshot would still not adequately penetrate.

I would love to see a ballistic gel test on that one. Actually placing the end of the barrel onto the block. (Use a stand off muzzle device if you are worried) I think the combination of concentrated shot and force of the propellant gasses would be pretty devastating.

Your next video??



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[Warp]

This is a terrible and oft repeated argument. Volunteer to let me throw rocks at your face. Oh, you don't want to? Then a pocket full of rocks is a legitimate home defense choice.

Agree.

The "would you volunteer" thing is the most ridiculous and irrelevant 'thing' I probably ever see on gun boards.

Is anybody lining up to take a shot (let alone to the face) from my BB gun? No? It must be good for self defense then, eh?

Nah it doesn't work that way

 

[chopinbloc]

I'd be willing to do it at 2" or so. I don't have a cool guy brake on my shotgun.

 

[Jackal]

I dunno, if I got shot within reasonable range with 12ga birdshot, I think I'd be out of the fight. If it goes through plywood, I'm pretty sure a T shirt isnt much of a barrier...

 

[chopinbloc]

Would you be "out of the fight" if you were hit with a 12 ga bean bag round? Of course. Will it physically incapacitate you like 00 buck can? No. And that's the point. It isn't about what causes pain, knocks the wind out of you, scares you, or even eventually kills you. What matters is the ability to penetrate deeply enough to reliably perforate vital organs and cause either instant incapacitation via damage to the central nervous system or rapid incapacitation through gross damage to the cardio pulmonary systems and hypovolemic shock.