Is this bad behavior in a gun shop

[drcook]

There are a couple (maybe 3) stores around here that formed a buyer's group so that their volume is up so they get better prices. They also carry safes, clothes (men's and women's), shoes, fishing equipment and other outdoor related goods so that they don't have to rely solely on selling firearms. One of the is doing so good, that they are opening their 3rd store. They also recieve firearms for folks.

I think some of the gunstore owners are members of the F.E.S. (Flat Earth Society) and simply can't believe you won't fall off the edge of the world if you go there.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
I think that's the "No soup for you!" society. All's fair.

 

[rellascout]

A friend of mine took his daughter to a LGS to look for a couple of spare magazine for her Glock pistol. She spied a used holster in his "holster barrel." and wanted to purchase it. He wouldn't take off a lousy $5.00 off the purchase price. So she skipped buying it. I think this guy looses a lot of money by being so hard nosed. Unfortunately I've seen a lot of gun shops and gun show vendors loose money by being this way.

If $5 is lousy why wouldn't she have just bought it at the asking price...

The door swings both ways. LOL

 

[mortablunt]

I wouldn't go back right away. Wait a while, go elsewhere, and come back and just browse in a few months on a not so busy day. If things aren't good still, then don't go back.

 

[SkyFreek60]

^ exactly my thoughts... just ran into the same sitation a week ago where i didn't purchase something over $5. It has to come out of someone's pocket and it wasn't going to be mine but i don't have any resentment for the seller not wanting to drop $5 either.

I also vote the orginal OP would be justified in canxing and never going back.

 

[SwampWolf]

Do you know what I take from all this? That I'm DARN lucky to have the LGS that I do.

After reading the entirety of your post, theautobahn, I have to agree: You certainly are "...DARN lucky to have the LGS that (you) do..." I only wish that your retailer lived closer to me.

 

[JohnKSa]

Since I took the time to drive over to the store and since the store now had the gun sitting on the counter, I preferred to go ahead and buy the gun, however, I demanded that the gun be sold for the price quoted me. I did this in front of several other customers who hang out there.

Being quoted a price and then being asked to pay more is pretty poor behavior. At that point, you were probably justified in making a public scene. However, what you describe as happening to you is nothing at all like what happened to the OP.

The old way is dying and if they are not willing to change they will become extinct and I for one will not morn them.

You'll mourn them the first time you want to handle a gun and look at it before actually ordering one and can't because everyone's following your new business model.

I'll say it again because it's worth repeating and worth thinking about. What's hurting LGS most is that many people don't understand why it's important to have a few LGS in their area even though an LGS can't match the big box and online store prices.

 

[oneounceload]

What's hurting LGS most is that many people don't understand

What it takes to run a business because they are mostly minimum wage workers who have NO idea what it takes to run one; yet I bet they would have a FIT if their boss said work for free - which is what they are asking the store owner to do every time they expect something for free

As to the poster mentioning CDNN - without someone to transfer that gun to you, their great deal means nothing

maybe some of these folks should go open their own gun shop since they seem to have such a great idea how easy it is and how cheap it is to sell guns

 

[drsfmd]

I called my LGS a couple years ago, asked for the price on a certain pistol. The guy told me the price, I felt it was reasonable and told him to go ahead and order it.

The gun came in about a week later, I get a telephone call to come in and get it. I go in and find that the price quoted me is not really the price, as "the new guy behind the counter" didn't know that he was giving me the wrong price.

People like you are the reason that most shops won't quote any prices on the phone.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

People like you are the reason that most shops won't quote any prices on the phone.

How dare he not be ok with a bait and switch price scam.

 

[drsfmd]

How dare he not be ok with a bait and switch price scam.

Could have been a lot of other things... maybe it wasn't available from the usual source, but was available elsewhere for a little more money. Maybe the sales guy just made an honest mistake, and didnt add the markup to the gun (you'd be surprised how many guns make a profit of as little as $29 for the shop). Don't always assume that your LGS is an enemy trying to rip you off.

 

[asia331]

no entry

 

[SharkHat]

Could have been a lot of other things... maybe it wasn't available from the usual source, but was available elsewhere for a little more money. Maybe the sales guy just made an honest mistake, and didnt add the markup to the gun (you'd be surprised how many guns make a profit of as little as $29 for the shop). Don't always assume that your LGS is an enemy trying to rip you off.

If it wasn't available and they had to order from somewhere else at a higher cost, then they should have contacted the buyer BEFORE ordering to make sure that he was okay with the price change, or eat the difference. Any change to the quoted price should be communicated before you reach the register.

 

[rspeters]

^ that just makes too much sense.

 

[X-Rap]

I have simple purchase models,
If buying in quantities ask for manager/owner and see if they have a bulk rate.
If buying used have a % in mind that allows some profit for the seller as well as a good deal for me. (this comes from experience and knowledge of the local market)
If buying from a pawn shop or individual with no warranty implied I am pretty ruthless especially with a pawn broker, they often get their merchandise for pennies on the dollar so I base my purchases on that.


I don't believe one can wholly base prices on the internet since time is worth something to everyone, shipping and availability are often not factored in comparisons, and having a brick and mortar shop is priceless.

 

[rellascout]

You'll mourn them the first time you want to handle a gun and look at it before actually ordering one and can't because everyone's following your new business model.

I'll say it again because it's worth repeating and worth thinking about. What's hurting LGS most is that many people don't understand why it's important to have a few LGS in their area even though an LGS can't match the big box and online store prices.

No I won't. You can continue to say the same thing again and again but it will not make it right. Sorry bro you are eating on old cheese. Time to put your running shoes back on and get into the maze.... LOL

There are plenty of ways to get your hands on the latest and the greatest. The smart small format stores like my local seek them out because they are the type of inventory that moves quickly. For example I looked over yet another Ruger 1911 at my small FFL yesterday. In the end if I wanted one I could have had one for $650... but I dont.

In the end for me personally there are so few new things that interest me and most of them are available at my small local format store just as easily if not easier than the larger format one. Trying to be everything to everyone does not mean they will have what I am looking for.

These people did not give a crap about us when they held a virtual price monopoly over their local markets. Honestly are you proposing that we prop up business with failed business models who cannot compete in the changing free market?

 

[rellascout]

What it takes to run a business because they are mostly minimum wage workers who have NO idea what it takes to run one; yet I bet they would have a FIT if their boss said work for free - which is what they are asking the store owner to do every time they expect something for free

As to the poster mentioning CDNN - without someone to transfer that gun to you, their great deal means nothing

maybe some of these folks should go open their own gun shop since they seem to have such a great idea how easy it is and how cheap it is to sell guns

Sorry but you are making assumptions which may or may not be true while at the same time insulting other members of THR... Way to keep it classy.... I have been the owner of a small business which at its height grossed over a 1 Million dollars a year for multiple years. Employed 6 people and paid all of them a solid wage. We had a local and national presence and did more with less than every single one of our competitors. We grew the business but in the end the market for our products changed. We hit a ceiling and the market dropped out. Sorry but the old style big inventory FFL is living on stale cheese and are bitter because they believed that it would last forever. I know the feeling but in the end when your market changes you put on our running shoes and get back in the maze and started looking for new cheese. We changed the business model revamped the business and I sold my portion to move on to other things.

I have contemplated getting a FFL in the near future after I move in the next 6 months. I believe that there is a growing number of people with and interest in guns who have real business experience who can run a successful business using the model I have outlined. You can disagree with it. You can think its foolish but IMHO it has a better chance of working than the old model does..... YMMV

 

[thorazine]

Is this bad behavior in a gun shop

Here I thought this topic was going to be about a bunch of college girls having a wet tee shirt contest inside a local gun store.

 

[CZguy]

Sorry bro you are eating on old cheese

Now that was descriptive.......you can almost taste it.

 

[JohnKSa]

The smart small format stores like my local seek them out because they are the type of inventory that moves quickly.

If you honestly believe that you'll never want anything other than what moves quickly then your new business model will work for you. The first time you want something that's not so mainstream, things won't go quite as well.

In the end for me personally there are so few new things that interest me and most of them are available at my small local format store just as easily if not easier than the larger format one.

1. Just because you're not often interested by new things doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way.

2. I emphasized the part of the quote that indicates that you actually do understand that the new business model won't/doesn't always work for you.

Trying to be everything to everyone does not mean they will have what I am looking for.

No, but having several traditional LGS in an area will definitely help insure that people can look at things they're interested in buying because inventory and philosophy varies from LGS to LGS and because the traditional LGS is based, at least to some extent, on catering to the customer even if it means stocking some items that don't move well.

Your new LGS business model that strives to match online pricing has much less chance of having what folks are looking for on hand. Sure, it will probably work for most people most of the time, but the fact remains that if we allow this new format to take over we will have to give things up. As mentioned above, you're arguing for this new format and in spite of that even you have already admitted that it has failed you in the past.

...it has a better chance of working than the old model does....

It will work great for the business owner. It will work well for the "average gun buyer". It won't be so great for those who aren't the "average gun buyer".

No I won't.

Your own words have already proven that this new business model has already failed you on occasion.

So unless you like going to a shop and not being able to handle what you want to buy, unless you like a business model that you know is more likely to fail you as a buyer when it comes to selection/etc., you will be disappointed/unhappy on at least some occasions when/if the new business model takes over. Therefore, it seems a safe bet to say that at some point in the future you will mourn (however slightly) the loss of traditional LGS even though you clearly don't want to admit it right now.

Maybe you're different, but the real issue here is that what a lot of people want is to feel good about using the LGS as a selection tool and then buying online or from one of the "smart small format stores" where they can get the good price that the LGS can't provide because it's also in the business of helping buyers decide what they want and what fits them as opposed to just moving guns at the lowest prices possible. They want it all.

I see a lot of rationalization about why it's a good idea for LGS to go out of business and become obsolete, why it's a good idea for "smart small format stores" to take over. The problem is that we, as gun buyers, will be giving things up when that happens and some of the things we give up will be things we will miss.

 

[BSA1]

You'll mourn them the first time you want to handle a gun and look at it before actually ordering one and can't because everyone's following your new business model.

I'll say it again because it's worth repeating and worth thinking about. What's hurting LGS most is that many people don't understand why it's important to have a few LGS in their area even though an LGS can't match the big box and online store prices.

It is as tough business world out there thats for sure. More so with firearms where anyone can know what you paid for the gun in the display case. Then they think the $25.00 you are trying to make is too much and they also want you to give them a free $20 magazine.

A on-line store model certainly has lot of advantages, all you need is computer, a website and ffl but it seems to me that before ordering a gun the buyer will want to handle one. It would be interesting to know how many times a buyer handles a gun before purchasing it.

One area your model totally ovelooks is used gun sales. The LGS's in my area focus mainly on the self defense and black rifle market. Recreational shooting and used gun sales are ignored. Not only would you make more markup on used guns but it may be a nitch that needs to be filled. Not everyone wants to pay for a new gun when a good used police trade-in that is going to spend most of its life in the nightstand will meet their needs.

I admit missing not being able to walk into a shop and not being able to drool over used guns. It is a like a saddel shop I do a lot of business with (five saddles, saddle pads and blankts and a wall full of tack). I walked in the other day and the shop had a wonderful (at least to me) smell of fresh leather. Yes I can buy saddles and tack online but where would I get that wonderful smell?

 

[BADUNAME37]

I had a friend purchase a Mossberg 500 12 gauge pump from the LGS. I told him to be SURE he gets the Mossberg, 12 Gauge. Two weeks go by, the gun comes in, I see it and it is some knockoff of Mossberg and definitely was NOT a Mossberg! Immediately, I showed him how the Turks had made it, a bit rough all around. However, he was paying for a Mossberg, not some cheapo copy of Mossberg. He demanded that it be a Mossberg and the gun store owner said "they are all the same."

The gun store owner was taking advantage of my friend's lack of knowledge when it comes to guns! It was Bait & Switch at its WORST!

They are identical?
Oh, REALLY?
The cheapo Mossberg Knockoff is exactly the same as a Mossberg?

Huh, so we can buy replacement Mossberg Parts and they will bolt right onto an El Cheapo Knockoff (ECK)?

Well, he sure fooled me, I would not think the parts are interchangeable, at all, but then, what do I know, I am only a CUSTOMER.

 

[drsfmd]

If your LGS is so small that they need to order a Mossberg 500 for you, they won't be around long... they don't have enough cash flow to keep the engine moving...

 

[ErikO]

I'm spoiled. My FLGS is 30-ish minutes away bt the guy that runs it is a total self-starter; he worked as a part-time gunsmith to make money for his daughters' college. When they were both firmly ensconced at school, he switched gears and opened his shop. Zero loan money, not beholden to a financial institution at all. He's literally built his business from scratch and treats everyone that comes in as a repeat customer even if they've either never been in or else just bought ammo from him.

He has consignment guns as well as new stock. He set up dealership agreements with several manufacturers so he has a fast pipeline to their guns and parts. Prices are good; he can beat Davidsons on handguns almost every day no matter the model and is a Davidson's seller as well with lower prices every time than the others in my area.

Zero attitude, loves talking guns and safety and politics never really seem to matter. I feel comfortable there so it becomes easy to pull out my wallet and open it up when I'm there.

 

[BADUNAME37]

If your LGS is so small that they need to order a Mossberg 500 for you, they won't be around long... they don't have enough cash flow to keep the engine moving...

Amen.
Well stated!
Thanks! I needed that this morning!