Upsetting gun shop experience

[ColinthePilot]

originally posted by Ghost TrackerI'm no biggot, but can't the shop owner have/give any excuse he wants? His shop means his rules. I appreciate taking The High Road every chance I get...but Political Correctness & it's corresponding thin-skinned, can't-wait-to-be-insulted attitude is insincere CRAP.

What if the OP had been lookin to sell a, say for instance...Perazzi Shotgun. And the Shop owner opened the case, shut the case & said, "Nope". When pressed for a reason he responded, "Because if I sell this, it will bring in all the rich snobs. And I don't LIKE rich snobs. I've had BAD experiences dealing with rich snobs in the past. And they'll irritate my regular customers with their rich snob attitudes & ego-maniac manners. And I LIKE selling & serving my regular customers. So I won't pay a cent for this Perazzi because I don't WANT to pay a cent for this Perazzi."? Would y'all be all upset & indignant because the owner didn't want to do business with High-Grade Shotgun buyers? Really, would THAT bother you?

Are y'all enraged because he didn't BUY the gun? Or because, when he was asked why, he gave an answer that you don't agree with? Well, at the end of the month when he pays his bills, have you agreed to send him some money? Because if you haven't...mind your own business.

Brother "brotha" is just a word, like Baptist or Redneck or Snob. And, like those other words, it's come to describe a series of behaviors that, for WHATEVER reason, the owner didn't care to expose himself or his business to. Why can't we all put our tender, over-sensitive feelings away and let the man run his business ANY WAY HE CHOOSES?
Ghost Tracker is online now Report Post

I completely agree with this. Also, I cannot 100% for sure say that I wouldn't do business with this store. I believe that many "racial" terms (like "brotha" and others) define behavior more than color these days IMHO. The thin-skinned PC attitudes that run rampant in this country have made us over sensitive to words. Just words. Either way, I'm not there to do business with anyone but the store owner. If he has what I want at a price I want, I'll do business with him if he'll agree to do business with me. I'm also not there to buy the owners opinions on anything but weaponry. If I had any reason not to deal with this particular store, it would be that he wouldn't buy my gun, not for his remarks.

 

[mark0]

He didn't say gang members. He said Brotha's. Clearly a reference to African Americans. Do you believe all African Americans are gang bangers?

He didn't say gang members, but he also didn't say African Americans.
Lots of people of various ethnicity refer to each other, and also to people of other ethnicity, as "Brutha".

My own characterization of the word refers to a white member of a street gang in full tats, bandana, and wife-beater.
Obviously other's perspectives vary.

 

[ilbob]

My MONEY means MY rules.

Back in '99, a local gunshop treated me badly. I used to spend literally hundreds of dollars a year on range time and supplies there. I haven't been back. Neither have any of my friends.

Thats the way free enterprise is supposed to work.

Businesses supply what their customers want at a price they are willing to accept. Sometimes what customers want is not just the obvious product. A lot of smaller retail establishments have figured out that customers want free coffee and a place to yak now and then. They may not be selling coffee, but it is part of what they are selling.

 

[Neophyte1]

rules

I do have a dog in this: The right of any business owner is his. Without question.
The ignorance [brotha] mouthed off proves his business position. Establishing for this good old boy; 'a place not to return to'
I visit the "HR" and not once have I seen 'bigotry'; seen a bunch of disagreements, spats, and general differences of opinions.
Visited a site awhile back. First thing I read about; [bigotry trash] for me
'a place not to return'

Deanimator; says it right; "My Money; My Rules"

 

[El Tejon]

Hmmm, a gun shoppe owner turning down the opportunity to make a dollar? I am shocked! Was he sitting on his stool when he told you no?

"People go into the gun business not to make money, but to tell OTHER PEOPLE 'NO!'"

From Kirk's Laws of Firearms

 

[Crunker1337]

Being a rich snob is different from being black. You can choose to not be a snob, but you can't change your ethnicity.

The store owner has every right to be a bigot and choose not to buy certain firearms because he doesn't want black people in his store; just as the OP has every right to not fund said bigot's actions.

 

[trueblue1776]

Unsettling? ha ha ha, wow.

I personally wouldn't care, but what you choose to let hurt your feelings is a choice. Here's a thought: What if it was an innocent little off-the-cuff remark? But I guess there's more to talk about if this guy is a "bigot".

 

[countertop]

Where did this take place?

Have you thought about listing it for sale here on THR?

I suspect you might even do better than $100.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I know the owner of a liquor store in my town that doesn't sell certain brands whiskey for the same reason. It happens everywhere

OS

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I'm all for voting with your wallet. No thinking individual wants his/her patronage to, in any way, benefit a business with whom they've had disagreeable dealings or (sometimes even) a difference of opinion.

What I'm NOT all for is the public outcry over WHY the owner didn't buy the Tec-9. If no one likes my Perazzi example, let's try this one...

The seller had a nice WWII Luger with all the accessories. The gun shop owner not only quickly & loudly said NO but insisted that the seller leave the shop immediately! When asked why, the owner shouted to the back of the shop & asked his father to come out front. A nice, old gunsmith comes up, wiping off his hands. As the seller notices the old gunsmith's forearm, he sees a smudged series of tattooed numbers along the inside. He's a holocaust survivor. This shop owner's family had seen enough Nazi equipment, up close & personal. They wanted NEVER to see anymore...ever.

Would y'all be so fast to call THAT shop owner down? And what's the big difference in name calling between his "brothas" & your "biggot"?

 

[Tyris]

a little devil's advocate here:

I see something of a double standard going on. When bigots like Jesse Jackson, Laura Washington and the NAACP call for black disarmament, this is precisely what they're talking about. This guy acts on their advice/wishes and he gets flamed.

My guess is that he'd get the nod from Jesse, Laura and company.

-T

 

[Owen Sparks]

Anyone care to post some actual black vs white violent crime statistics?
Speaking the actual truth can't be racist, right?

 

[CountGlockula]

Second Devil's advocate here: Was the sales guy a "brutha" himself? Whenever I talk to people and bring in the "race card", I always refer to myself so I don't offend the lister or anyone else listening.

 

[Zundfolge]

I'd put that thing up on www.Gunbroker.com ... looks like there's several there in the $300-$500 range (not sure if they actually sell for that).

You should be able to manage a bit of a profit.

 

[Thain]

Yes, the business owner has every right to discourage certain people from shopping in his store. Many gun store owners and their employees do everything they can to keep out Blacks, Arabs, Hispanics, and women. More than a few seem pretty keen on chasing out homosexuals, teenagers, parents with children, and White Men who just happen to be novice shooters.

And I, as someone who might have wanted to spend my money there, have every right to decide I don't like their attitude. Further, I have every right to tell anyone who will listen that I don't like their attitude.

I won't shop at several local businesses, ranging from gun dealers to comicbook shops, because they act like @&&#*)3$ to women and minority customers. For example, a certain local gun dealer has been incredible rude to my wife everytime she's gone in... We won't go back. If my wife's money isn't good enough for them to treat her nicely, then why is mine?

The OP got offended by the attitude his local gun-barn decided to cop, and he decided to share it with us. There is no "Political Correctness" goign on here, the gun dealer was acting like an ass... I wouldn't go back there either.

 

[[email protected]]

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Why are we discussing this? He didn`t want the gun, sooooo, take it to the next store. That simple. No reason to cause an uproar of opinions about a guys remarks. We`ve all been subject to giving and taking comments like this so what`s the big deal/ ? Move on. To much time is spent in america today on political correctness.

 

[Travis Lee]

It is SO satisfying to be offended, isn't it?

To look down your nose at someone's experiences, judge his prejudices with your own, and feel that rush of moral superiority.

The OP wanted to get rid of a Tec-9 for his own reasons, and that's OK. The shop owner didn't want it because he didn't want to deal with gawkers, and gropers, and straw purchasers who are attracted by THAT PARTICULAR WEAPON. But, that's not OK.

I would not try to sell some $3000 Italian shotgun to a shop specializing in tec-9s, Lorcins, and Jennings.

I've been to plenty of shops that would never carry ARs or AKs because they don't want to deal with "that element".
(Hey, that's MY ELEMENT... I am SO OFFENDED!)

I know one gun shop in Milwaukee which does a lot of "inner city" trade, they are always in the ATF top ten list of suppliers of guns which wind up used in crimes. They're rude schmucks, probably because of the majority of their customers.

I know of two others in Milwaukee which don't seem to attract the same clientele. I don't see them regularly denounced by the Milwaukee Journal. No Lorcins, or Jennings, no gun rentals, and they are not the lowest priced stores for common products. They might even have racial prejudice I don't know about....

"Your money"? seems it was the shopowners money, business, and his LICENSE in play here.

Turn it around, if you figured that the only likely purchaser of a particular gun would be a straw purchaser for a gang thug, would you even want it?

Take your Tec-9 to another store where they are more likely to buy it.

--Travis--

 

[Tyris]

As a connoisseur of ghetto weapons, I too am offended

-T

 

[czdavid]

This, in a sense, is a rebuke to me. How many times do I look down my nose at others because of the color of their skin or apparent financial standing? Too often it seems I do this. If we all were to step back and examine our own lives we would probably see more than one time when we judged others. The shop owner made a comment. I've made comments. Don't we all make comments? Why don't we just accept the fact that the owner made a comment and move on with life. We all, at some points in our lives, are no better than he. It's time we all grow up and realize we all make mistakes -- no one is perfect.

 

[jonboynumba1]

Well...they are junk and it generally IS a certain type of person that likes those kinda guns generally speaking. That is people (of all races) embracing the gansta/thug self image. Just like yuppies buy a jeep or range-rover with 4WD that will never see a day offroad way back in the woods or tow a bass-boat...many people will buy an image with a cheap commie rifle of stamped sheetmetal jam-o-matic gheto gun like a Tec9. I mean other than looking pretty cool they have no real upside.

Young "gun of the month" buyers or wanna-be ganstas pretty much buy all that junk when I end up with it. Nothing wrong with that...we all start somewhere. Many will go on to learn to save money and buy quallity fireams down the road. I sell a lot of pistol-grips for cheap mossberg 500's that 6 months later come back to order a regular rear stock or PG stock with a buttstock...you can explain to them all day it's pretty worthless without a stock and they still want the image. So I shut-up and sell them what they want and suggest they keep the old stock bagged up in the closet just in case they change their mind. I seriously doubt a bus-load of inner-city gang members from Birmingham are going to pull the 1 1/2 hours drive up to my store because I sold an M11 and a Uzi pistol last week (and actually my doctor bought both of those and a 6.8 AR15 and an HK .45 USP tactical!...so it goes to show you -you never do know who will buy what!) But I doubt any cops would be buying the gold plated fo-ivory grip (with engraving) Raven .25 I picked up dirt cheap the other day for a backup weapon! (I call it the pimp special...Huggie-bear would love this one!-LOL)

Now if I really think someone is a legitimate criminal or has criminal intent I simply don't sell them anything. Or better yet when they ask how much you just say "$799.95 + tax" and leave it at that. But as much as it irks me to see baggy pants and turned sideways ballcaps it doesn't mean I won't sell them a firearm or stock merchandise they "might" be pre-disposed to purchasing. It's not a racial thing...it's character judgment. And yes...I really will insist they pull up drawers tighten their belts turn their hats around forward before I will sell them a gun. (and actually -it's mostly white kids that are the worst about it) I simply don't want my other customers thinking I cater to thugs wanna-be idiots. And if they curse every other word they will be asked to adjust their gramar or leave as well. I don't need a sale that bad and idiots raely have enough money to make it worth your patience to put up with them.

Eventually most of these kids will grow up and learn enough self respect to NOT go into a public store with their pants hanging halfway down their butts and looking like they "ride the short bus" with a baseball cap on sideways or crooked. Eventually terms like "YO yo yo yo how much for dat fo-tay cuzz" will be replaced with "Sir...how much are you asking for that pistol?" And at that glorious point they become valued customers (and possibly young adults responsible enough for me to want to sell them a firearm)

Race has nothing to do with it. You learn in the pawn & gun business to treat everyone well (in the event momma didn't teach you that at home) Because every once in a while the gansta wannabe looking guy will not only surprise you with good manners but will also pull a wad of cash out and buy $800 worth of jewelry or electronics. And he'll remember you treated him decently BEFORE you saw his money and come back next time. Stereotypes and generalizations are by nature less than 50% accurate on average. If someone demonstrates being able to conduct themselves as an adult I'll happily sell them anything they want to pay me for...besides EVERYONE wanted a tech9 or a mac10/11 at least once in their young uninformed lives-LOL I think I'll stick with the Beretta Storm or the ModelA Uzi on the office wall myself though

That said we don't trade sell or deal in Loricin, Jennings, Hi-point, Cobra (or whatever they are this week) With the rare exception of older customers that end up stuck with one and want us to sell it off for them...and we sell this fullt disclosing they are generally pieces of junk that we call "may pops" (may pop...may not-LOL) Life is just too short to deal in crappy guns. The above mentioned raven was just so over the top gawdy I had to buy it-LOL We've gotten a lot of fun out of the pimp gun...hey I paid $20 for it and sold it for $100 And yes....I disclossed it was a POS just something goofy to show off in a collection when I sold it...which is exactly what that guy bought it for (gag gift for his wife who wants a new sig for her aniversary gift this year...and yes -she will actually get that when he stops laughing) So I guess even a lowly raven 25 has it's place in the universe

 

[JohnBT]

"If we all were to step back and examine our own lives we would probably see more than one time when we judged others."

Heck, at least once a day during a slow week. I've been getting paid to judge people since I finished grad school in '73. That reminds me, my performance review is Monday. The accuracy of my judgements will be right there on the form in black and white. I judge others; others judge me; life goes on.

John

 

[El Tejon]

Funny, I was in a gun shop just two days ago picking up a gun when a Lafayette, Indiana police officer came in to look around. He advised that the TEC-9 in the case used to be his and was a "range toy" that he no longer wanted.

The minute the gun culture embracing the notion that only certain people, THOSE people over there, have certain weapons we embrace the notion that inert mechanical devices have eeevil influences over people and have wills of their own.

 

[W.E.G.]

Look at the guy who posted this. He's got what?

All of 24 posts.

Surely you don't think his account is truthful and factual???

OMG!!!!!!

 

[Ed Ames]

My perspective: "Brotha" was not only racist, it was stupid. If I had overheard it I would've treated it the same way I've treated gun store employees dry firing the guns at each other.... head for the door NOW.

As for upsetting... I've had stores refuse to sell to me. "It's legal, your money is fine, I just won't sell to you because I don't want to." That's surprisingly upsetting... especially when the reason they have is wrong, out of your control, and not relevant (e.g. "you are from California")... but.... refusing to buy from me? NOBODY has an obligation to buy from me. Nobody has an obligation to offer me a fair price.

And.. the number of posts someone has has nothing to do with their honesty. OMG!!!

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

As an SKS owner, upstanding citizen, firearms enthusiast, I take offense to the term "brotha's". This guy is going to try and lump me in with thugs because I own an SKS? By the way, this gun shop commando is full of s***, the SKS and AK's are awesome rifles, rugged, require little maintenance, accurate enough to get the job done, I love my SKS.

I would never buy a tec-9, I know they are junk. But to throw the AK's and the SKS into the same group, this guy is an idiot.