Is this safe?

[igpoobah]

This is a tangent from original thread, but this is something that boggles my mind.


Quote:
The rules are sacred and never to be broken.

Regardless of what you 'think' you know about the firearm's current condition...

How do you clean your weapon then? Obviously no one wants to clean a loaded weapon, but if you insist it is always loaded, you could never clean it. Likewise, if you want to make the range safe by unloading the weapons before allowing people downrange, how does one ever go downrange if all weapons are always loaded? How about being who need to unload their weapon before casing it or leaving a firing line?

I'm really not trying to be difficult, but there are clearly times when one must consider a weapon to be unloaded to perform certain actions. If the rules are absolute that you must always treat a gun as if it were loaded, how do you field strip it, install a scope, refinish a stock, change choke tubes, or any number of the other tasks that require an unloaded weapon to perform?

How do you reconcile the fact that certain aspects of gun ownership clearly require one to treat a gun as if it is unloaded if you adhere strictly to the all guns are always loaded rule? Do you say put the rule, "Well, it's loaded except for right after I check it to strip it, then it is unloaded" or do you just say, "Well, this is loaded, but I'll strip it anyway."?

I concede your point.

Naturally there are times when one must technically 'break' the rules.

In the context in which the pictures are portrayed, and in which I was specifically referring to, the rules are sacred. We don't 'screw around' with guns.

 

[Feanaro]

Oy, double tap.

It's the 21st century, why can't I delete my own messages? I'm still smarting from the lack of flying cars, now this.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Second picture I see little problem with. Not a good idea to have so many firearms in a situation where fumbling might occur though.
Picture three is stupidity because of playing around with fingers on teh trigger is ignorance.
Picture one is unsafe plain and simple. The one gun could drop to the floor and/or the trigger get snagged. The two pointed at his belly is just ridiculous and if they are old guns with hair triggers then they might go off if they fall over. Also if the idiot dropped the gun under his arm and it somehow hit the trigger of one of the guns pointed at his belly....bang.

But having said this, how do we know they are even real guns? I do not like seeing people play with replicas either because of the creating bad habits thing or the mixing them up with a real gun, but a non-firing replica or toy gun can never be loaded. If that is all they had was a bunch of fake movie guns in that house, then no imminent harm, no serious foul.

 

[tarkio]

I have a rule that firearms are not toys and are never to be used as such. With that said, these guys are playing and I see this as a lack of respect of the weapons and the potential that they have. This lack of respect is what I believe is a precursor to problems down the road.

Yes they are breaking the rules but they are getting away with it this time. The real problem comes in the future when they think, "well we did this kind of thing before so we can do this now and be alright".

 

[Chris B]

The only time I'm comfortable with a muzzle pointing at any part of my body is when the weapon is holstered or the action is open (for cleaning). Not safe.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

I concede your point.

Naturally there are times when one must technically 'break' the rules.

In the context in which the pictures are portrayed, and in which I was specifically referring to, the rules are sacred. We don't 'screw around' with guns.

Thanks for the reply, igpoobah. I've seen many, many people over the years mention the absolute nature of the rules and it's always perplexed me since some relatively common tasks require one or more rules to be broken to be broken in my mind.

I agree that the pictures in this thread are definitely poor examples of gun handling and that knowing the gun is unloaded doesn't make it a prop for horseplay.

 

[RCouch]

Horseplay with weapons is never OK. Horseplay begets more horseplay and
someone will eventually do it wrong.

 

[Nitrogen]

I've taken some pictures for the express purpose of being silly. Looking unsafe with a bunch of people I know and trust. (mostly as a joke on another forum.)

It WAS unsafe. Much like running with the bulls in Spain can be unsafe, or riding a motorcycle without a helmet is unsafe.

If you understand the risks, do a good job to nullify them, thats the best you can do. It's unsafe, yes, but so is so many other things we do in life.

Would I normally take unsafe pictures like this? No. I realise the concequences if I should mess up, and so did the other folks in the pictures with me.

The disturbing thing is that these kids probably don't understand the concequences; they are doing it out of ignorance and stupidity. THATS whats scary.

Does that make any sense?

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I guess it depends on whether or not these were staged pictures or horseplay caught on film. It is the kind of thing I would do only if I personally checked every weapon twice, and even then not in such goofy pics.

 

[plexreticle]

It's them unloaded guns that seem to get people shot.

 

[Feanaro]

Picture one is unsafe plain and simple. The one gun could drop to the floor and/or the trigger get snagged. The two pointed at his belly is just ridiculous and if they are old guns with hair triggers then they might go off if they fall over. Also if the idiot dropped the gun under his arm and it somehow hit the trigger of one of the guns pointed at his belly....bang.

I'm just trying to follow the logic here, so help me a little. The third picture, featuring two people pointing firearms almost at each other with fingers on triggers, is just stupid. The second picture, with a crossbow pointed at the stomach and two pistols pointed right at the cajones, is fine. But picture one is unsafe, because the guns might fall over or the triggers get snagged.

I admit I didn't notice the shotguns in the man's gut in the first picture, which is pretty stupid. But even so, that seems to be on par with the second picture as far as safety.

 

[.cheese.]

maybe I'm just weird, but the part that bothers me the most is how in photo number 2, that crossbow is pointing right at his nuts.

 

[86thecat]

I give them about a 5.7 on the unsafe meter but the STUPID meter is pegged on 10.0

 

[Marintime Mike]

Not safe

Accidents happen because of unexpected occurances...You THINK you completely unloaded a firearm....or you think you've got control of the muzzle direction....The rules are there to set up a SERIES of events which all must go wrong for there to be serious consequence of some oversight. These fellas wouldn't be messing around like that in MY house...
You can work on a firearm ONLY when you have proved it safe,,,and it has never left your direct control...If I'm cleaning a rifle and I'm interupted by a phone call...I prove it safe AGAIN before resuming work...We are human...I have locked the keys in my car before...
Also we don't need stuff like that making it out to Youtube or whatever....That's ALL we need...more "ammunition" for the "let's get rid of ALL weapons crowd..

 

[Slugless]

This is why 105 boy babies are born for every 100 girl babies.

 

[bwavec]

Monkeying around with firearms is an inherently unsafe activity in my opinion.

How many times in "accidental" shootings have we heard/seen/read:
"I thought it was unloaded" after someone has died or been seriously injured ?

As others have said above: "Always treat it like it is loaded"

selah

 

[hobgob]

I take one look at picture number two and i have my answer, notice the placements of the crossbow, i dont know about yall but i like to keep anything that flings pointy projectiles pointed away from my junk. thats my two cents. other than that, its unsafe but inevitable in my opinion, theres a little rambo in all of us. theyll grow up eventually. but ofcourse all firearms should be treated as if loaded, even if they checked the chambers.

 

[dave_pro2a]

I've seen BATFE agents do worse, and to other people's private property.

But in regards to those kids, not my business. In this country private citizens are have the freedom to stay stuck on stupid.

 

[Soybomb]

ay that the actions depicted are safe because the boys are familiar with firearms and ensured they were unloaded

Its as safe as working with dangerous things can be. I'm reasonably safe when I get under my car with the parking brake on and it up on jackstands. There is always a chance I made a mistake and did something wrong. Its probably smart to minimize your risk and expose yourself to potential danger as little as possible.

What would you tell Oleg about this?

 

[nwilliams]

At the very least they should keep their fingers off the triggers

All guns are loaded and should be treated as such. My philosophy is that if you're going to play with your guns like toys then I'm going to get out of range.

"I thought it was unloaded" is something I never want to hear nor have to say, honestly keep your guns locked up unless you're going to shoot, clean or carry. So the answer to the question is no, what they are doing is not safe because they are demonstrating poor judgment and not treating all guns as being loaded.

Besides I see evil intent in their eyes, look how red they are!!!!

 

[86thecat]

If you break the rules but are extremely careful you can still be reasonably safe, like pulling the trigger on a Glock for disassembly (double check chamber and point in a SAFE direction) or checking fit on a shotgun from muzzle end (double check chambers then check again). But breaking the rules AND screwing around can kill someone.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Unsafe and foolish in more than one respect. Setting aside (as the OP requested) the obvious disregard for the "four rules", we're looking at some boys who are treating firearms as amusing toys. If they are going to go that far then I have to wonder how serious and thorough they -really- were in checking (after all they aren't treating the firearms seriously in the photos).

Also, even if nobody gets "hurt" now, they are doing harm to all gun owners with this sort of foolish behavior and they'd better hope that these photos (now recorded for all posterity) demonstrating their poor personal judgment don't show up in your typical pre-job interview search somewhere down the line.

 

[Mannix]

Ever notice how accidents ALWAYS seem to happen with "unloaded" guns?

 

[Black Adder LXX]

Two words: un safe. I can think of a single word, too: irresponsible.

 

[RKBABob]

Did anyone notice that there is a single shot shell in the safe?
Gee, I wonder where the rest of the ammo is...

Seriously, these guys need to go back to cap guns untill they grow up.

I'm sure the Brady Campaign would love to put these photos in their propaganda materials.