Issue weapons for security company

[NonConformist]

And they arent there until AFTER something happens, Security, especially armed, vigiliant and who can get you kicked out can be there when it happens or even stop it beforehand

 

[elChupacabra!]

when it happens or even stop it beforehand

What IT are we talking about that private security

a) Has the authority to do in an "open air drug market"
b) Is more interested in doing than the FBI / DEA
c) Is being paid to do by a "local government" that presumably already has a better trained, equipped, and prepared LEO force that could also presumably take out the "lookout houses" on its own?

 

[NonConformist]

You're picking and choosing and ignoring

The government cannot or will not station LE(who compared to where I worked are lightly trained) on a property in a fixed patrol

They will use qualified private sector Security to help maintain order someplace they cannot be all the time

CIS had contracts w/ the Government, even .mil as well as the Port Authority and regulating agencies of power plants as well as apartment complexes privatley held w/ section 8 housing, some at the urging of local LE

Police Officers(and I know I WAS one) are reactive, not proactive and can only arrest. Security and management can evict you if you break the law as well as constantly have presence on a property

If they are going to lose their home they wont be slinging dope where you can see it

CIC has(IE) a proven track record of cleaning up areas LE couldnt, or wouldnt, and inside a month all criminal activity goes down by at least 50% on every property we ever had

You have to realize that LE doesnt have the money for all the extra training, or tactics used and are generally behind the times by at least 10 years

 

[Kragax]

I still want to know what these guys make. I may want a change of jobs.

 

[NonConformist]

I was making 15 Dollars an hour and that was like 4 years ago, more when I did EP for them

 

[elChupacabra!]

But what does that have to do with "open air drug markets" with "lookout houses?"

You're talking about a security presence inside an apartment complex.

The OP was talking about rolling through Mog and stumbling across Bakaara Market while on "patrol"

 

[NonConformist]

Some complexes in bigger cities span BLOCKS of city, Look at Chicago

 

[elChupacabra!]

With "open air drug markets" and "lookout houses?"

I'm sorry it might be technically possible but this is the most absurd thread I've read in ages... absolutely hilarious

 

[dogmush]

Im not sure how much evidence youd like, but this is a headline from yesterdays paper.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008...in_drug_b.html

1. That's not an AK47

2. One AK type rifle (or even 100) does not make it a "perferred weapon"

Assuming earnestness on the OP's part, I reitterate that I think he's opening his officers for huge legal liability, and they would be better served spending that money on armored vehicles, and good coms with real cops then weapons.

Also, IMO, if you need level IV trauma plates to enter a building as a private security officer, you need a new job. Those vests seriously suck to wear.

 

[Scottish_Lord]

It seems that elCupacabra has a severe case of open mouth/close mind. For these people, there is no convincing nor educating. The fact of the matter is that most people are stuck in the past. These are the same people who claim Bail Enforcement Agents aren't needed because we have the police.

Breaking News, This Just In - The 1950's are over!

Yes, as hard as it is to imagine, there are well in excess of 4 times the amount of private law enforcement officers than there are of public law enforcement officers. In the US, around 85% of all critical infrastructure is protected by private law enforcement. There is a reason for this, and it's because the police cannot be there at all times! Imagine that one! The idea that two guys in beat up Impala can't be at every location within 10 square city blocks at all times, I know it sound ridiculous, but the police cannot and never will be omnipresent.

This is 2008, and the nation isn't roses and sugar cookies anymore.
If you think that a complex can't have an open air drug market, you are wrong. My guess is that you don't work in the industry. About those markets, you may wish to ask a certain Richmond Police sergeant about those. Wait, you can't because he was killed when he unknowingly drove into one in the parking lot of Midlothian Village.

I really don't care what some scattered naysayers on a message board believe. My officers will still be protected adequately. I just can't believe the disrespectful candor of some of those here.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Yes, as hard as it is to imagine, there are well in excess of 4 times the amount of private law enforcement officers than there are of public law enforcement officers. In the US, around 85% of all critical infrastructure is protected by private law enforcement.

Let's be VERY clear here - Private security =/= Private law enforcement.

My guess is that you don't work in the industry.

Do YOU "work in the industry," or are you PLANNING to work in the industry?

I just can't believe the disrespectful candor of some of those here.

Pardon me Sir for not showing you the "respect" a private (security) officer of the (not) law deserves from all us subjects who require your protection!

Also, I don't think "candor" means what you think it means...

1. the state or quality of being frank, open, and sincere in speech or expression; candidness: The candor of the speech impressed the audience.
2. freedom from bias; fairness; impartiality: to consider an issue with candor.

 

[Scottish_Lord]

Judging from the maturity of your posts, I'll venture a guess that I've been in the security industry longer than you've been out of high school. Now go turn the toaster off before you light off mom's kitchen.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Judging from the maturity of your posts

Hey I'm not the one posting on an internet message board asking about how best to outfit the Blackwater Ghetto Division here

 

[Scottish_Lord]

Asking for opinions on firearms is immature?

Righto.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Also, for those of you interested in your potential future in "private law enforcement," take a look here:

http://www.privatelawenforcement.com/

Memorable quotes:

Our Mission: To provide quality programs & services for private citizens & professionals with an interest in private law enforcement. We believe that everyone with a passion for freedom, will benefit from our programs in areas of private law enforcement to include, tactical training, martial arts, health & wellness, team building exercises, and spiritual life development.

What is Private Law Enforcement? We define Private Law Enforcement in two categories:

1. Citizen or Volunteer : Neighborhood Watch, Law Abiding Citizen, Patriot, Retired Law Enforcement or Military, APLEA Agent, etc.

2. Professional or Career: Private Investigator, Security Guard, Martial Artist, Bail Enforcement Agent, Executive Protection

With this important caveat (in italics):

We at APLEA realize that our job in Private Law Enforcement relies heavily on those in Public Law Enforcement (i.e.. Police, State & Federal Security, Sheriffs, State Troopers, US Marshals, FBI, CIA Civil Servants, Fire Dept and other emergency response & law enforcement personnel ). Our job is to work within our rights as a law abiding citizens and then report to the proper authorities.

(emphasis mine)

Fantastic I love it when people believe they have the authority of a LEO because someone is paying them to guard their Projects

 

[elChupacabra!]

May I also add how proud I am to be participating in this thread... perhaps one day, if I'm lucky, this one may too be catalogued at

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

with the rest of the Canon of the Mall Ninja... and to think I got to participate

 

[loneviking]

Scottish Lord, I'd suggest considering either the CZ or Tangfolio line of pistols. Solid, steel frames, very reliable and accurate. They also won't go out of battery if jammed in someones ribs and the heavy steel frames are good for knocking sense into someone if all else fails.

 

[Scottish_Lord]

elCupacabra - I've never heard of this organization or website you cite. I was wondering though, maybe I'm wrong. You know, maybe operating and running a security company, I just get caught up in it all, being exposed to the latest in industry trends and all on a daily basis. Maybe I can hire you as a consultant? Can you explain to my lawyers how what they have told me the state law says is actually wrong and invalid? They would probably appreciate what some legal eagle from a message board, posting links they found on teh intarwebs about unarmed security practices thinks of our operations! Oh joy! No lawsuits for me!

Seriously, you're just an agitator, have proven yourself as such, and are now irrelevant. Good work.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Can YOU tell ME

what they have told me the state law says

?

I'm DYING to know

 

[Norinco982lover]

If he is serious....

The CZ-75b in .40 (still holds what...14+1 rounds?)

Remington 870 (or if you want cheaper and sturdier...Norinco 982)

M4 sounds good for carbine.


This "security"... they are just patrolling in cars right? Do you have fully armored vehicles for them to drive? Crown Vics? Repainted Caprices? Little GMC jimmys? Ford escapes? Or the ever popular security companys "Kia Rio" lol.

 

[rc109a]

i think you cannot go wrong with any of the Glocks (I like XD's better, but they were not on your list). Lots of accessories to go with them. The Mossburge 500 is a good gun and is easy to maintain. The DPMS would be ok, but you can usually get RRA under contract within the same ballpark. Bushmaster also has been giving good deals to contractors as well. I don't think you would be eligable for the DRMO M-16's like other law enforcment agencies are, but it would not hurt to look into that route as well. I like your idea about body armour in a cost sense measure; but if they are required to buy new armor every 5 years, then maybe they pick up the first set and then you replace it for them every 5 years for free. That might help avoid buying armor for those who only work for you a year or so and still let you invest in your more reliable employees. Just a suggestion. This is a very interesting concept and have seen it work overseas in many locations....Good Luck..
p.s. I am interested in the starting pay as well?

 

[elChupacabra!]

Also

operating and running a security company

I'm sorry, I'm confused... I was under the impression from your earlier posts that you WANT to "operate and run" a security company, that you are "planning" on buying your duty sidearm, that you are "planning" on having your guards provide their own Level V (sic) plates, etc. etc. etc.

So again, are you ACTUALLY running this company, or is this all a fantasy in your para-LEO imagination?

 

[ilbob]

I don't think it makes much difference.

For you doubters - I recall back in the late 70s the security contractor for the CHA actually had several armoured cars. They used them mostly to bring fire and EMS personnel to the buildings, because they would not enter the property without protection, and the police generally could not be found when a call came out regarding the worst of the complexes.

I don't recall them having rifles, but they did have shotguns. Many of the guards carried two revolvers. At first I thought it was overkill, but after talking with some of them, I decided it was a prudent precaution. And when I say they had shotguns, I mean they had them with them a lot of times, not in a car or in the guard shack. But right in hand.

If you have never experienced up close the worst of the urban hellholes called housing projects, you might not appreciate just what he is talking about. Police often would not respond to calls to these projects.

 

[Good Shot Group]

My lord elChupacabra!, your posts are extremely out of line. This High Road member is asking for advice about firearms. Sheesh. Give the brother a break. I've patrolled Baghdad and there are places in this country that I feel less safe than I did in Baghdad.

My vote is for:

Glock 21SF 45 acp
Mossberg 590
AK-47

Frangible ammunition is probably a must in your case especially for the 7.62x39.

 

[elChupacabra!]

I'm sorry guys I know I'm being antagonistic but there is NO WAY this guy is serious... I don't doubt or question the danger or intensity of modern Projects, or that private SECURITY (NOT Private LEO) may be hired for property security or even evictions... but this whole thing REALLY reeks of both TROLL and MALL NINJA... and I'm talking the full-on, Gecko45 deal.

Any soon-to-be security guard who believes they are Law Enforcement Officers and should arm their team with ANYTHING in 7.62x39 CANNOT be serious... this is too funny