"Unarmed Security -- Am I Missing Something"???

[TexasVet]

Well, obviously armed doesn't work either. There was an armed COP (not just a 'security guard') at Columbine and he rabbited because he was "outgunned" and left two nuts with guns loose in a school full of kids.

 

[Mike Irwin]

The credit union where I used to work had "security guards" who weren't armed. Mostly they were older ex-Marines, but still no challenge to someone with a gun.

What good they did when they were "guarding" the ATM servicing crew is completely beyond me.

 

[Amegatek]

Contract Security

I don't work contract security anymore. I work for the University and I am a state employee. The way our security force is now, about 50% are highly competent and the other 50% are questionable. If we were armed, I feel that those people wouldn't have gotten hired. Could change (at least getting handcuffs) b/c the new University prez is really pro security. Until then, maintain Condition Yellow (at least), and hope PD responds quickly if something goes down.

 

[WonderNine]

Deleted by request of author.

 

[bigdog21]

The days of observe and report are over atleast in florida the courts have found that security is responsible for protection of people and property.. If a security officer saw a person getting hurt and was properly equipped to deal with the situation and did nothing he/she could be charged with criminal negligence. If the contract says you are to protect people thats what you do. Unarmed officers in florida can carry any weapon except a firearm. Also the state teaches you that you have the power of citizens arrest which is breach of peace or felony. most security officers Ive met are very professional but you get the bad apples sometimes. Bye the way i am a florida licensed security officer been one for 2 yrs.

 

[smince]

Slightly off-topic, but:

I went to the local courthouse on business. The two deputies manning the metal detector were UNARMED! I personally know they are qualified, but that is the rule when working the courthouse. Go figure

There was a shooting in a nearby county on the courthouse lawn last week. Luckily he was stopped before he got inside, but unarmed deputies may not have been much help.

 

[Tom Servo]

It's a heck ofa risk-- Pinnin' on a badge and wearing a uniform without the (expected) accompanying firearm

Yeah, might as well wear a bullseye on their chest.

Best security setup I ever had was a retailer I worked after college where employees were allowed to CCW. Several of us were armed, but most folks didn't know.

Until we had a confrontation. Then word got around the neighborhood, and two things happened: a) "locals" stopped hanging around the parking lot, and b) customers starting saying things like "I feel safer now."

Being the guy with the gun just means you get shot first if something goes wrong. In our situation, folks knew there were armed folks present, they just didn't know who. No way would I have put a uniform on, armed or not, that announced me as "security" though.

 

[Manedwolf]

I'd thought most large stores only had the guy in the polyester uniform trying to look important at the door as something to see, and the actual security (as in catching shoplifters) was done by one or more plainclothes "store detectives" or "loss prevention officers", as I've heard them variously called?

 

[The_Antibubba]

The attitude of most businesses is "Just give 'em the money!!" Let's say I'm a bank robber, and I case the bank. The security guard on duty is armed. What do think is the first thing I'm going to do when I walk in the door? If I'm hiding a gun I might try to disarm him, but if I'm walking in with long guns, HE IS DEAD. If I own that bank, the last thing I want is people shooting in my bank. Give them the money, along with a dye pack or a transmitter, and let the police do their job.

At the mall, most of the security work is nuisance control and shoplifting. Again, unless you have a REAL LEO on hand, you don't want your Rent-a-cop firing at someone, because it'll be the mall's liability.

 

[coylh]

Inventory control = Safety

Camera Surveillance = Safety

Chip implantation = Safety

Disarmament = Safety

Don't you guys realize this is for your own Safety? How can you be so Anti-Safety?

 

[gopguy]

They are there to stop crime....When they see it they will yell "STOP!"......and when nothing happens they will yell "STOP!" again.

Many malls in Ohio are posted no ccw. So I only shop where I can carry and protect myself.

Logically what is needed for mall security in this post 9/11 world is a uniformed presence (for show) and then a plain clothes armed unit to respond to the threat. With the plain clothes having real training and not looking like security. No value in guys all dressed in black suits with huge radios etc... The uniformed guys just stand out and if someone wants to disarm them and do something it is not too hard to imagine the guys in uniform will be the first casualties...

Some time back Fox News did a story on a Sarin gas plant with designer perfume bottles in storage. They showed the bottles and it sent a chill down my spine...They were clearly meant to be sent to Malls in the west where they would wreak havoc and death...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,147046,00.html

Spertzel said what scared him the most in Iraq was the discovery of secret labs to make deadly weapons like the nerve agent, sarin, and the biological poison, ricin, in spray form.

"If that were released in a closed [area], such as Madison Square Garden or, even some, some of your smaller closed malls, shopping malls, it would have a devastating effect … killing hundreds or thousands," Spertzel said.

But Spertzel believes Saddam was cooking up an even more sinister plan — putting the poisons on department store shelves across the United States and Europe. He said that plan was "actively pursued" as late as March 2003. And that plan was at least, in part, funded by Saddam's corrupt Oil-for-Food activities.

"Some of the photographs that were obtained from this same laboratory had multiple different shapes of glass spray bottles, perfume spray bottles — presumably to mimic different brand names," Spertzel said. "Can you imagine somebody going into Macy's department store and spray a little bit of a perfume to see whether they like the scent, only instead of perfume they're getting a face full of sarin?

"That would kill within, within a few minutes. If this were to appear at a couple different locations, imagine the economic impact in the U.S. — people would be afraid to buy anything."

It is clear terrorists have thought about hitting at our soft underbellies...they would have killed thousands had this worked. Someday a mall attack probably will happen....

 

[Eleven Mike]

I am a Security Officer for a University. We do carry OC Spray but that is it. We don't even have handcuffs!

Yeah, but since colleges don't allow weapons on-campus, there's nothing to worry about!

Hey, forget all that stuff about Iraq. We all know that the Hussein regime was just politely minding its own business.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

Some perspective of the unarmed security debate.

1. There is a cost difference for a company to hire armed versus unarmed security ($6 per hour versus $15 per hour)
2. The potential liability faced by the hiring company/individual when an armed security officer discharges their weapon during an incident.
3. Has more than adequate training been administered to armed security personnel.
4. Depending upon that state, does the individual may not be legally allowed to possess a firearm by federal laws (non-permanant resident for example).
5. Its a whole lot easier to find replacements when unarmed.
6. The quality of the personnel may detract a company from hiring armed security.

Personally, I'm not against unarmed security depending upon the situation in which they are employed. For one thing, due to the natured of the beast, does a private security company can afford or willing train their employees in the use of deadly force. From my experiences on what I've seen security schools pass for level 3 certification (armed security) at different ranges, I will run out of a particular business if I ever see one of those iodiots at a post.

Practically anyone can get an unarmed license.

 

[carebear]

For those of you talking about armed, better trained, better paid, state-certified private security, you've just described cops. When you're talking about more cops protecting every mass-gathering place you're describing, in effect, a police state. (and "assisting with Homeland security and anti-terrorism? Isn't that horse beat down to the molecules already?)

We don't need more uniformed (pseudo-) police standing around to "protect us". Give the citizen back the ball and let us run with it. We do just fine protecting ourselves.

I feel safe all day never seeing a policeman. I'm glad they're around, they have an assigned task in our society. I don't, however, wet my pants when there isn't a badge in eyeshot.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

We don't need more uniformed (pseudo-) police standing around to "protect us". Give the citizen back the ball and let us run with it. We do just fine protecting ourselves.

That is a good however, in my part of the woods where I've seen 3 generations of people sucking on the govenment's teet, education that dues nothing to promoted free thinking, the current legal system, etc, I would find it hard to people to rely on themselves for a long time.

 

[carebear]

There are three (and only three) responses to any problem or situation.

1) Put up with it

2) Change it

3) Leave it

If there are already police where you're at and things are that bad, then more, private or not, probably won't help much.

So, in your situation, if (1) ever becomes not tenable and (2) is (apparently) impossible or unlikely, it leaves only (3).

This last bit doesn't apply to you at all Ken because you are not complaining, just stating facts.

For those who want to borrow it, I usually finish my "3 and only 3" comment with (when it fits contextually) "none of these include the right to whine about it, so shut up."