"It Takes A Thief" series and "guard dogs"

[Cosmoline]

Discovery has some cool shows on these days, including "It Takes a Thief"--the show where former criminals stage a home invasion while the owners watch via closed circuit TV. Weaknesses in the home security system are exposed and the mock criminals actually do a lot of damage.

One of the main things the homeowners discover time and again is the utter worthlessness of their "guard dogs" at doing anything to stop the intrusion. I've been involved in the world of working line guard dogs for several years, sometimes more involved than I ever cared to be. But one of the main things I learned from the experience was that 99% of ordinary dogs and even a high percentage of those bred for guard work will not defend a home with the owner absent. Even the big ones who put on a good show will buckle and run when a self-confident thief just marches in like he belongs there.

The plain fact is the instinct of working dogs to guard PROPERTY has been selectively bred out of them. Portions of working trials which involved the protection of an item such as a glove have been dropped from competition because too many people were getting mauled. Coupled with this, aggression and protectiveness in general has been bred out of dogs--particularly in the US where we want our dogs to be de facto children.

If you expect your dog to guard your house, particularly when you're gone, you'd better rethink your plans. I personally know of one or two batches of working line European GSD's who would kill to defend property, but I also know how difficult it was to place these dogs in homes. When it comes down to it, folks don't want a dog who will try to kill Billy the stupid kid from next door when he tries to get into the house through the dog door.

 

[sumpnz]

I don't really have any illusions about Sarah (our Shepherd/Chow mix) protecting our home from anything besides the neighborhood cats. Even then I think the cats could easilly outsmart her and still gain entry by simply baiting her.

Her value to us in terms of security is barking, or otherwise alerting us to the approach of other people.

When it comes down to it, folks don't want a dog who will try to kill Billy the stupid kid from next door when he tries to get into the house through the dog door.

Having a dog that will do that is certainly cause for keeping a defense lawyer on retainer.

 

[Working Man]

What about a high percent Wolf Hybrid

Say, something as found at:

http://www.youngwolf.com/?

 

[SADshooter]

sumpnz +1

I don't expect my dog to fight/sacrifice himself to protect our stuff. He's there to bark as a deterrent. Failing that, I want him to keep himself intact.

I DO expect him to fight to his last breath protecting Mama, if the attacker(s)/ get past me /or I'm not there /(or Mama capably takes care of herself ), and I think he would.

 

[SalukiFan]

I like Oleg's take on the dog "security" issue:

Dog as a burglar alarm

I agree with him!

 

[Fred Fuller]

Umm hmmm. "Ordinary dogs," yes.

lpl/nc (...pats 10 month old, 90- pound Fila Brasileiro lying at feet; is glad Little Billy would have to get through two layers of electric fence, and past all the NO TRESPASSING and BEWARE OF THE DOG signs in order to feed himself to her... .)

 

[AF_INT1N0]

Sad that the good parts of a dog have been bread out for the sake of the nanny state.

I personally would have no problem with my dog eating anything that decides to come in through the dog door, as a matter of fact I have no problem with anyones dog eating anything that comes in to the doggy door.

Just one time I'd like to see the star of It Takes a Thief run into a retired military working dog..

 

[Horsesense]

Hey Cosmo!

I have a 12-week-old female GSD who is from recent German Ancestry (including s Shultshound (sp?) national champion) and I could use some advice.

My experience with dogs is in training hunting dogs to hunt and teaching and very limited social skills to the dogs I have had over the years as pets.

The advice I got from the breeder/trainer (he trains for several law enforcement agencies) is to put my hand over her eyes and say no when she jumps up on you or mouths you. It works pretty well for me but not for my wife or kids.

She walks in front of me as I go about my work on the farm and I get the impression that she is trying to herd me, I just walk into her (being sure not to step on her or hurt her) my thinking is that I cant let her get what she wants by doing that but I do want to try and get her to eventualy herd cattle, or at least keep the cows off of me when I'm carrying a bucket of fed.

I have walked her around my property and she will not leave my land, that’s good, but my 6 year old Golden Retriever dose his business just across the boundary that I set for her and she dose her business anywhere she wants. How can I get her to go in the same place?

She is very intelligent and I want to take advantage of her intelligence by training her the right way.

 

[No_Brakes23]

I prefer this dog image of Oleg's:
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/arms/getshotgun0104

I don't expect my dog to fight/sacrifice himself to protect our stuff. He's there to bark as a deterrent.

+1

If my eventual dog makes enough noise to wake me up, then he has done more than any cat I have owned would ever do.

 

[Cosmoline]

The word to use is PFUI! or similar negative combined with an INSTANT correction as the bad behavior is taking place. Couple this with a reward for good behavior and you can get the dog to do or refrain from doing any of these things. The key is being consistent, clear and absolute. And above all doing it the MOMENT it happens not before or after.

If she's tripping you up, tell her not to when she does it or invent a "move on" command of your own.

With most bitches you don't have to be heavy handed as you do with some of the bone-headed males. Light correction works good with them, and later on even a tone of correction is enough. Overcorrection is not good and is usually a sign that the dog simply doesn't understand.

 

[bratch]

I'm not real sure if my dog would defend the house or not. He is a Malinois imported from working line but he is quite the bum and cuddler.

 

[TexAg]

For your average thief though just a mere bark is usually enough deterrent to go on to the easier house. The same with lighting, good lighting is just enough to make the thief go to that dark quiet house instead of your well lit, dog barking house. Same with alarms and such. I'm sure some people do think their big dog will bite the thief, but I think most people understand its a deterrent, not a fail proof prevention.

The cops, the thiefs, the experts have said the same thing for a long time and I doubt its going to change, lighting, dogs, alarms all contribute to deterring crime.

 

[Ryder]

Good points Cosmoline.

My Neo is sensitive to intrusion but I do hope she backs off if I am not there. My stuff is worthless in comparison to the cash I've dumped into her. Her true usefulness to me is as a distraction should I need to access a firearm. A few seconds makes all the difference. If I lose her in such a situation it will be money well spent.

The other day I faked a swing at my son goofing around. Before I knew what happened I was wiping dog slime off myself. She jumped in to protect him. I was condition white to her presence since she is "just a pet". I don't train her to attack or guard but she lacks no instinct in that department.

 

[SUPERMAN .45]

8 moths ago when I just transfered to a new apartment, I left the house at around 10 pm and went to our computer shop. I've got 3 Pitbulls in my house 2 of them were locked in they're cage. The other one is inside my kitchen, when I arrived at around 1 pm together with my girlfriend, I noticed that my door at the kitchen were forcibly destroyed. I immidietly draw my .45 and check the house if somebody was still inside the house, and found out no ones in there. But the other door with plastic screen was been cut with a blade cutter,I found out that the thief did not manage to enter the kitchen because of my dogs. Maybe he was afraid because all 3 of them were barking loudly and the size of my pits they're really big. Thanks to my pits because if the thief managed to enter my house, 4 of my firearms(1 AR-15,1 Glock 17,1 1911 and 1.25 cal.pistol) and all off my belongings might have been stolen.
After that incident I put some barbed wires and add more lights all over the place, and got 2 more pitbulls inside the house,right now i've got 5 pitbulls all of my dogs are nice and sweet to me and my family. These dogs are good guard dogs, they're very protective and loving.they're part of my family I love them so much.

 

[itgoesboom]

I think I am pretty fortunate with our dog.

She is a German Shepherd Dog mix, we think 50/50 with Blue Heeler, which means she is hyperactive, brilliant, hyperactive, hardheaded, protective, hyperactive, and loves to herd anything and everything. Did I also mention she is hyperactive?

We got her at about 1-1 1/2 yr old from the Humane Society, since she had a sweet personality. We didn't get her as a guard dog, soley as a family pet. We figured that at <35# (undernourished when we got her), she would be too small. We even though after she put on weight

Boy, were we suprised with what we got!!!

Our neighbor, who has a 100# doberman and 100# GSD/Wolf Hybrid, has commented that our little pup is the biggest dog in the world when he has come to our door.

She not only barks and growls, and snaps her teeth, but gets up on her back legs and uses her front paws to pound on the glass window next to the door whenever anyone she doesn't know/doesn't like comes to the house. It's quite a show, and enough to scare most people away.

She is the sweetest dog in the world once we let someone past the front doorstep, but unless we okay them, she does anything she can to keep people away, even people she knows.

I.G.B.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm not real sure if my dog would defend the house or not. He is a Malinois imported from working line but he is quite the bum and cuddler.

Don't let that fool you. If those are the lines I'm thinking of they're some of the very few that keep the "old school" traits. The most violent and lethal GSD's I know have all be absolute clowns and puppy dogs around their owners. But woe to the stranger who tries to break in at night! I remember one incident last summer with one such dog where I was coming onto my property out in the sticks from the woods side after hunting. I was coming through thick cover and unknown to me one of the X-litter females was out. Think of the canine equivalent of velociraptors and you'll have a good picture. I had to put that entire litter outside at THREE WEEKS because they were tearing the crib apart and their mother was afraid of them.

Anyway I push through the undergrowth towards the cabin. There's no barking. No growling. No noise at all other than me. Then I hear a rustle to my right and look up just in time to see the fangs of this female flying in at NECK LEVEL!! Thankfully she recognized me mid-air and I ended up getting kissed. But had I been an intruder--dead meat. Some malinois are like that too, but few GSDs are so hard core these days. That same dog rolls around like a puppy and wants to play when she sees me. She's actually never bitten me at all, which is odd since many of the dogs from the more "sporting" and less aggressive lines are the ones who seemed to be nipping me all the time.

Now I've moved back into civilization, but I'm babysitting the finest GSD in the state. He *may* give me my bed back or he may not

 

[bratch]

Dodi, Prince's Dad

That is a link to Prince's dad.

A Police officer had bought Prince to use to as a K9 but didn't have time to work with him so they put him up for adoption.

When I adopted him I was told he was really good about barking at people when they came to the door. He hasn't done this for me but he is leary of strangers and stays very close to me anytime somebody new is at the house. Unlike my Border Collie who jumps all over them for attention. He does raise Cain over motorcycles, semis, bass music, etc.

I have really bonded with him as has my BC. He is also fond of my girlfirend. I left late one night to go get some food and left her home alone. I felt alot better knowing that Prince was there with her.

When he hangs out in my room he will lay right in the door. I really think he is watching the hall for anything that might happen.

Like I said I'm not sure if he would do anything but I wouln't want to press my luck. He is extremely athletic plus his mouth is huge. He can put Brooke's head in his mouth or my thigh.

he has never bit or nipped me but he will put his mouth on me. My ankles are his favorite when they hang off the bed it is a very erie feeling.

If I can ever find a place to host pictures I'll put some up.

 

[YammyMonkey]

My parents have had a couple Standard Poodles and both were very protective of the property out to 300yds or more and even moreso of the family. They have quite the "big dog" bark and the size/energy/quickness/power to back it up. The one they have now (alpha from the litter) can be very hyper and sometimes needs more attention than a small child, but he will also sleep outside my baby son's room and not move until my wife and I are up and about. It seems to me that, in the US at least, the Standard Poodle is a very underrated dog as a companion, hunter and protector.

 

[igor]

What most contributors to this thread don't seem to quite have comprehended is the nature of dogs' family or pack instinct. Mostly every dog will demonstrate its "guarding" behavior when someone of the pack is at home with it. It's the dog's instinctive job then to warn the pack leader about intruder so the leader can come deal with it.

But a dog with noone home but itself has no pack there to warn or deal with the problem, only itself to take care of. Mostly every dog will then try to avoid the threat of the intruder, which starts with being quiet and out of the way. Few dogs will be motivated to defend its territory alone, if not entirely cornered, where it turns to defending only itself.

 

[itgoesboom]

What most contributors to this thread don't seem to quite have comprehended is the nature of dogs' family or pack instinct. Mostly every dog will demonstrate its "guarding" behavior when someone of the pack is at home with it. It's the dog's instinctive job then to warn the pack leader about intruder so the leader can come deal with it.

But a dog with noone home but itself has no pack there to warn or deal with the problem, only itself to take care of. Mostly every dog will then try to avoid the threat of the intruder, which starts with being quiet and out of the way. Few dogs will be motivated to defend its territory alone, if not entirely cornered, where it turns to defending only itself.

Doesn't seem to be a problem at the GoesBoom household. The dog I mentioned above has shown herself to be quite motivated at protecting the household, even when no-one is home.

The evidence of that is my neighbor who occasionally stops by, and has told me her reaction to him coming by when nobody is home.

When the show "it takes a theif" first aired, I joked with my wife that I would love to see the two guys try out house.

They simply would not get in and get anything, except bit.

I.G.B.

 

[bratch]

They did an episode where they broke into the ladies house while she was at home. I figured that was a good way to get perforated around my house.

 

[444]

As I have mentioned several times in the past, I had someone break into my home when I was at work through my back sliding glass door. He got about two feet inside the door and was torn limb from limb by my dog.
I had my truck parked with my dog lying on the seat while I ran in somewhere for a minute. The windows were "limo tinted". A guy broke into truck with a slim jim and was torn limb from limb by my dog.

He is now dead, but I counted on him to protect my house and property when I was gone and he did. I would have gotten a good laugh at these clowns breaking into my house. This isn't a boast or a guess: it is a proven fact. More than once.

 

[Hardware]

There's a (dog's) world of difference between alerting and territoriality. Alerting is just that. Pups will even do this. Territoriality is defensive and dogs (and wolves) aren't specifically wired by nature to defend territory against anything but other canines. Humans have been pretty successful at manipulating behaviors though. In addition to the Malinois mentioned here I have heard Cane Corsos and Neopolitan Mastiffs are also very territorial.

 

[thebigc]

i would say some of them definetly do my dad said when he was younger his freind had a german shepard mix that was big so they go out for a while come back and someone had broken in but the dog got to them because they found blood all over the house.

 

[MikeIsaj]

I have a Shepherd in the house that is from a long line of police and guard dogs. Needed to remind him several times that it is my house after being gone for a few hours. I have no doubt he is guarding his territory when we are gone. He also seems to think my kids are his to protect also.

Good dog!